Running, Anyone...?

I did some bigger alpine tours last winter with groups, and I was almost always the last guy to the top. OK I'm the oldest but still...

So my goal this off season was to improve my cardio conditioning. I live at 6,000 feet and have mountains all around me. I'm not actually running but am training like a runner by hiking uphill, generally 1500 to 3000 of vertical feet 4 to 6 days a week.

I discovered what all endurance athletes apparently have known for decades but was a secret to me...train slow (most of the time) to get faster.
I found Maffetone then Seiler then 80/20 training.
I wear a chest strap heart rate monitor and have the Polar app on my phone. Found my max heart rate and am enjoying training at 65 to 75% of max. I know that if I'm breathing steadily through my nose and can converse I'm in Zone 2, or Green on my Polar app.

I think I have put in enough base building these last months to now do some high intensity work. Stairmaster and treadmill at the gym will be seeing more of me now that the mornings are dark.

Running Nearly Killed Me, But Being a Runner Saved My Life

He's a friend of mine. Crazy shit.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Running Nearly Killed Me, But Being a Runner Saved My Life

He's a friend of mine. Crazy shit.

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That's crazy. I worked with Adam for a few years, and he'd be among the most fit people I know. Glad to hear he survived that scare, and I hope he's recovering ok. It definitely makes me rethink my approach to flying home right after my race next month.

1 month to go now until Moab Trail Marathon, and I'm finally feeling stronger after being sick for a while early Sept. I got out for a solid weekend of training & mountain time, going up Mailbox Peak for vert on Sat (10mi, 4k') and then doing a 17mi thru-run Sunday from the Granite/I90 trailhead to the end of the Middle Fork via the old Pratt River Trail. Super cool to connect so many different kinds of terrain and forest. I also learned the hard way that the easy way to forget your aches and pains is to step on a ground hornet nest. 8 stings later, the remaining 6 miles out of the woods were not so comfortable.

Lots of slow grinding is paying off, and like Beder, I'm looking forward to starting ski season in good shape.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?

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Inov-8 has some shoes with spikes and minimal drop (3-6 mm). I have an older pair (Oroc 340s) and run with them on hardpack snow and ice, they work pretty well as long as the surface is firm (less well in softer snow). The spikes don't protrude much so you can run on pavement as well without sliding around too much.

https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-270-mens
https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-ultra-290-mens

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Originally Posted by teledad

Inov-8 has some shoes with spikes and minimal drop (3-6 mm). I have an older pair (Oroc 340s) and run with them on hardpack snow and ice, they work pretty well as long as the surface is firm (less well in softer snow). The spikes don't protrude much so you can run on pavement as well without sliding around too much.

https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-270-mens
https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-ultra-290-mens

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Those look sweet. How wide is the toe box? My understanding is that Inov8 runs narrow in general and those are 2-3 on their width scale, so I'm pretty sure they won't work with my EE feet. Salomon has free returns so I bought a pair of the Spikecross and they were comically narrow in my size.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

There's abundant evidence that nose breathing is immensely important for overall health. James Nestor's Breath is a great read.

For endurance training I'm not sure the evidence is there, except in an indirect way by forcing a slower pace as you said.

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Nice. "Breath" just actually popped up as available from my Libby hold list, so I'll read it soon. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Is running barefoot a bad idea generally?

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I did it a little bit many years ago. I think it mostly comes down to this: do you want to run barefoot or do you want to run far/fast/frequently? It’s not a totally binary question, but in the short term (less than a year), it is somewhat binary because it takes so long to build up endurance of those leg muscles. In an ideal world, running 1x week of “grass loops” barefoot would be nice to help run easy, feel the terrain, and strengthen tiny muscles, but running barefoot all the time seems unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?

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DTM, I bet you’ve done your research enough already but I’ll share two articles from IRF that could generate some thoughts):
https://www.irunfar.com/editors-pick...ing-gear-guide
https://www.irunfar.com/best-winter-...action-devices (in case you’re willing to check out more running specific spikes)

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Widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time, he is the 2016 and 2020 Olympic marathon champion and the world record holder in the marathon with a time of 2:01:09 set at the 2022 Berlin Marathon. He has run four out of the five fastest marathon times in history.

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Another mind-blowing race from the marathon GOAT, Eliud Kipchoge, in Berlin.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Those look sweet. How wide is the toe box? My understanding is that Inov8 runs narrow in general and those are 2-3 on their width scale, so I'm pretty sure they won't work with my EE feet. Salomon has free returns so I bought a pair of the Spikecross and they were comically narrow in my size.

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Yeah, they're narrow. I'm a D and they fit OK but they're definitely narrower than my regular trainers (Saucony Guides).

Completed a trail marathon on Saturday, my first marathon of any kind. All dirt and 90% singletrack including some pretty technical stuff. Overall a good mix of smooth, rocky, technical slabby sandstone, decomposed granite and quartz, and about 3600’ elevation gain. Never felt horrible but also never felt great. My thoughts that evening were ‘I have a better race in me’. So, looking forward to trying something similar next year. Learned some lessons and have a better idea of how to approach both training and race day.

The only pic I took all day…

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From a long training run I did on the course about a month ago…

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Originally Posted by stapes

My thoughts that evening were ‘I have a better race in me’.

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Yup. That shit sucks you in every fuckin' time.

Congrats on your first.

It'll be ultras soon.

Don't ask me how I know.

Congrats!

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Originally Posted by 3pin

That's crazy. I worked with Adam for a few years, and he'd be among the most fit people I know. Glad to hear he survived that scare, and I hope he's recovering ok. It definitely makes me rethink my approach to flying home right after my race next month.

1 month to go now until Moab Trail Marathon, and I'm finally feeling stronger after being sick for a while early Sept. I got out for a solid weekend of training & mountain time, going up Mailbox Peak for vert on Sat (10mi, 4k') and then doing a 17mi thru-run Sunday from the Granite/I90 trailhead to the end of the Middle Fork via the old Pratt River Trail. Super cool to connect so many different kinds of terrain and forest. I also learned the hard way that the easy way to forget your aches and pains is to step on a ground hornet nest. 8 stings later, the remaining 6 miles out of the woods were not so comfortable.

Lots of slow grinding is paying off, and like Beder, I'm looking forward to starting ski season in good shape.

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If you can't change your flight plans, at least get some compression socks to wear post race and especially on the flight.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?

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What about something like this, Dan? https://armynavygear.com/products/yaktrax-snow-trax

Our Costco sells them for less than $10. I used them through last winter on a steep trail that I’ve been hike/running. They work well on packed snow and ice, are light, easy on/off, and are a cheap enough that it’s not a big loss if they don’t work out.

I got the Kahtoola nanospikes last year and they worked well for me. They have a few options. That irunfar article also covers them and other brands.

https://kahtoola.com/shop/traction/

I’ve never used real spiked winter run shoes but was thinking this is the year .

Last few season used the Hoka ATRs as winter shoe and love the massive foam cushion A) to insulate from
cold snow and and keep you up out if the slush B) they are like mini snow shoes with the wide surface area in general

Might get a new pair and DIY some spikes …

Used various watches and apps to track my runs since I started getting out regularly almost 10y ago. Then, a couple months ago, I stopped cuz I forgot my fancy watch someplace. It felt surprisingly good. Now when I get home I don't know how long I was gone or how far I went or what my heart rate was or any of that stuff.

Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.

Pretty out there this morning
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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Used various watches and apps to track my runs since I started getting out regularly almost 10y ago. Then, a couple months ago, I stopped cuz I forgot my fancy watch someplace. It felt surprisingly good. Now when I get home I don't know how long I was gone or how far I went or what my heart rate was or any of that stuff.

Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.

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I found the same. I started competing with myself against my watch, took the fun out of it without me realizing it at first. I quit wearing the watch, don't care about time or distance and find I enjoy it a whole lot more. No watch or strava or anything else, I'm good thanks.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.

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Looks great, Cruiser! In the past I set my Garmin to only show time, that way I'm not focusing on distance, elevation, etc., nearly as much - which I liked - but I can still have a record of the run for later down the road - which I also like.

Looks like a great day Cruiser. We’ve had some wonderful fall weather huh?

I’m currently tracking miles/wearing a watch mostly cuz I was training for something all year. But in the past I’ve always went back and forth. For a handful of years I just ran without tracking anything. It is a nice change up especially after training and feeling like you have to run a certain amount.

The Forrest approach….

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I Strava everything so that I can track my inevitable physical decline in all its painful anti-climactic glory.

I managed to sneak away for a long run on family vacation in Ireland, and did 20 miles of mind-blowing cliffside trail running bliss from Doolin > Cliffs of Moher > Liscannor and back along the Burren Way. Muddy, craggy, and often pretty airy, it was an unbelievably epic adventure.

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Two weeks of tapering now before my first marathon, but that run will almost certainly wind up being my running highlight for the year. Regardless of how Moab goes, I'm pretty pumped that all the training's gotten me the ability to explore some of these rad places by foot and cover a lot of ground.

^^^ Oh dang

Beautiful 3pin!!!

Good luck with the marathon!

Wow. These days I don't care much for pounding out flat miles but I would make an exception for that. Looks like you won the Ireland weather lottery, too.

Rad!

Snowing around here - broke out the micro spikes for the first time the other day.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general? We have a lot of summer trails that stay snow-packed and usable throughout most of the winter, but they're typically steep and foot traffic and melt-freeze cycles frequently create patches or extended stretches of glare ice. While I could just get some Nanospikes, a proper winter shoe with real studs, a non-absorbing outer, and will keep my toes warmer seems worth it.

Pondering these:
https://icebug.com/p/arcus-m-bugrip-gtx-midnightred
https://icebug.com/p/pytho6-m-bugrip

Also looked at the Salomon Spikecross but they're 10 mm drop which is more than I'd prefer.

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Not sure if you already purchased something but I made a thread last winter kind of along these lines that has some recs: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ICY?highlight=