WEED, The Official Thread

I look at that Heath pic and think I could do that easy enough in coco and drippers multifed if I was rollin' over an 11-week strain and had 2 1/2 months to veg 3 1/2' manicured caged bushes before I flipped to 12/12 and made plans to evacuate 40 gallons of humidity out of the room every day when them bitchez start transpiring like big bitchez.

I also like to remember I could replicate and probably beat every Trailer Park Boys 240-plant PVC DWC NFT spiral stadium orgasmitron with stacked vertical bulbs I've ever seen, and make it more reliable with 4' slabs of coco and drippers DTW through trough trays or halves of 6" pvc, if I want to pull over 2g/w in 56 days from rooted clones.
Of course, then my days would be spent cloning like Django Fett...but I already have a pretty good day job.


How much they want for that prefab Undercurrents? Is Heath selling them? Or is someone just ripping him off for profits? Then again, Undercurrents is basically a hoppedup Waterfarm...


You can do coco with drippers for nice clean infrastructure too...for probably less than the cost of a commercial prefab system...


Square Foot Gardening:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...ictureid=52699

Current Culture is who sells them. I think that 32 site one is around 5k.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

Current Culture is who sells them. I think that 32 site one is around 5k.

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Fuck that's spendy. Could DIY for around 1/4 of that, which includes 32 Action Packers, 32 black buckets, 800' of pvc & fittings, $500 for pumps, and 160 gal of grow rocks.

But if you want to grow 32 trees surrounded by bare bulbs - which is the HR secret for max bud length and diameter - you're talking over 2000sqft of floor space in 1 room, or maybe 2x 1000sqft rooms. Now you're talking ballrooms, pole barns, churches, hangers, and rave venues...

I guess $5k for that rig is a drop in the bucket...


Back to shop vaccing: There's no law against using some soft braided plastic with an elbow on the end to extend that stiff smartassed shop vac hose that wants to go where it wants to go instead of where you want it. The elbo on the business end points down and gets dipped into your saucers to slurp. I remember making a cross of popsicle sticks to keep an elbow from grounding in the saucer and sticking from suction...

But I'd still get the big trays on bricks and make a common collection system I can shop vac in seconds if I had big plants in my way. Ridgid sells a shop vac emptier pump that mounts on their larger shop vacs. You could run that strait to drain or some other agricultural use, and never have to carry runoff water out.

https://youtu.be/GhTYI3DeNgA?t=2366

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Originally Posted by highangle

Yep. Your medium is out of whack, which is why such a light dose of ferts made problems. You need to buffer it with nutes so your ph in the medium won't oscillate out of bounds. This should get it so the nutes are actually uptaken by the plant in the proper proportions.

Read Lucas. Understand the proper ppms and balance of all the major nutrients to grow cannabis. Then figure your proper mix of your ferts based on Rosenthal's target numbers for NPK and the micronutrients, and the Guaranteed Analysis of your fert. Use the spreadsheet to do this. It may take a couple iterations, but it should tell you how many grams of dry ferts to mix per gallon of water. The Lucas Method is not confined to GH nutes. It will work with any fertilizer capable of approximating the scientifically derived target nutrient values.

Once you're solid you have your nutes mixed properly for cannabis, go to town on buffering your medium by flushing the full strength nutrient solution you just engineered through your medium. Then continue on using the normal Lucas method with your nutes.

HTH

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Thanks again for the advice. I've flushed three times the soils volume using the Lucas formula. Tested the run off pH 7.0 TDS is 820 ppm. I'm assuming I have more flushing to do.

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Originally Posted by Greg_o

Thanks again for the advice. I've flushed three times the soils volume using the Lucas formula. Tested the run off pH 7.0 TDS is 820 ppm. I'm assuming I have more flushing to do.

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PH seems high still, but since I don't know your input ph/EC or your EC>PPM conversion factor, I can't say. You may need to lower the PH of your input to get it to work better at lowering your medium's apparently high PH.

"Total Dissolved Solids"? Where'd you pick up that terminology? All a fertilizer concentration meter can measure is EC - Electrical Conductivity. A PPM conversion is something manufacturers apply differently, which increases the dumb. One of these days, everyone will say, "EC" and no one will ever again have to ask, "What's the EC>PPM conversion factor of your meter?"
Until then, it's just one more thing you have to know to get a straight answer to your questions.

I can also tell you haven't read Lucas yet, so you don't really even know what you're aiming for. Also, there's a right way to measure runoff in soil/soiless mediums. Lucas explains that too.

Here's Lucas' famous thread in something like the original form, including some sad little respondents with their HPD in full flight:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/vanill.../892/ask-lucas


Without reading that thread (or an easier printer-friendly archive somewhere), you'll have a harder time of it and be at the mercy of internet assholes like me. Avoid this.

Ultimately, it's your pot. If that isn't sufficient motivation to learn something new, then good luck in life.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1530675

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1530673

Getting there.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

I've got a few big rooms. Logistically, it will take forever.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1528177
Staging room after transplant.

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How are you watering that coco? All by hand? That won't scale any better than the saucers. You're going to have to automate. I'm sure you know this already...

Are you going to Undercurrents? It just struck me that you'll need an aeroponic or hydro cloner to go back to 'dro. Every time I tried to transplant from rockwool or soil to hydro, I introduced pithium or some other fucking disease to the hydro. Same for molasses, which turns properly temped hydro solution to an ideal germ culture medium no matter how much aeration or 3% H2O2 it gets.

I use a Brute trash can with a pump, hose and water wand.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1531156

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1531159

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...tureid=1531158

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Digi Timer>Pump>1/2" tubing >1/4" tubing to top of pots

I don't use emitters, I just tape the 1/4" to the rim of the pot so the end dangles someplace near the middle. Sometimes I'll use a Tee on the end, but it's not necessary since there's a layer of gro rocks on top of the coco.
Nothing spreads water around like coco, so it doesn't really matter if nutes just drop on one spot. It'll distribute itself in the pot before it starts to run out.

Bag of 100 1/4" barb connectors cost about $4. 100' roll of soft 1/4" black tubing <$20. 7-day Digi timer that will go down to 1 minute, $15. 3' section of soft black 1/2" tubing=$0.50/ft at boutique grow shops. 200gph pump $15 or less...

Fold over the end of manifold tube twice, and tie it of with a zip tie to close one end.. Attach other end to 1/2" hose barb on pump. Attach 1/4" tubing at even spacings with 1/4" barbs through wall of 1/2" manifold tube. Use exacto knife or center punch to make a tiny pilot hole for the barb.
Pump, manifold, and pump ends of 1/4" get submerged in reservoir. 1x1/4" tube to each pot. Keep all 1/4" sections the same length. Keep pump in bottom of res, below the top of the pots, to avoid any siphon action. Adjust pump output via pump's intake butterfly through trial/error. Try for 2 minutes on to deliver the correct amount (which will change as plant grows).

Fkn bone simple, cheap, and generic. One less thing.

wow, amazing grow set ups state of the art for sure...

when will we see the true evolution of outdoor grows?

as the buds stay small and rushed, i think we are missing the opportunity for more innovation....

green solution is still number one in colorado. i don't think anyone will catch them. they have every market nailed. ( flower, concentrates and edibles, all A+ quality.

Green Solution is a well oiled machine. Privately owned by four brothers. 12-13 locations, and they rape people on prices. Doesn't seem to matter that they sell extracts for 35 a half gram.

Their flower is as good as the next. I still think the best flower is at Natty Rems.

Highangle: Thanks for the info. Automation is inevitable for me. Thats why the undercurrents are so appealing. Might as well get rid of the medium too.

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Originally Posted by DasBlunt

when will we see the true evolution of outdoor grows?

as the buds stay small and rushed, i think we are missing the opportunity for more innovation....

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We will see massive changes once (if?) the banks get involved and the money becomes "real" so to speak.

When that day comes it will no longer be feasible to grow under lights in houses - it will be just another specialty crop.

At that point the farmer will take over simply because they will be able to match the quality on a much larger scale for much much cheaper.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

We will see massive changes once (if?) the banks get involved and the money becomes "real" so to speak.

When that day comes it will no longer be feasible to grow under lights in houses - it will be just another specialty crop.

At that point the farmer will take over simply because they will be able to match the quality on a much larger scale for much much cheaper.

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I agree that the farmer mindset will (is already) taking over.

Disagree that outdoor will supplant indoor. You get one crop outdoors vs 4+ indoors. Good luck keeping pests at bay outside when concentrates in OR can't have > 0.1ppm of pesticides. Dispensaries are finding quality of outdoor is too variable for today's consumer - in OR anyway. Then ya gotta figure out how to keep it fresh for a year.

Current experience in So OR. http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/..._underway.html

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Originally Posted by TBS

I agree that the farmer mindset will (is already) taking over.

Disagree that outdoor will supplant indoor. You get one crop outdoors vs 4+ indoors. Good luck keeping pests at bay outside when concentrates in OR can't have > 0.1ppm of pesticides. Dispensaries are finding quality of outdoor is too variable for today's consumer - in OR anyway. Then ya gotta figure out how to keep it fresh for a year.

Current experience in So OR. http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/..._underway.html

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I meant more along the lines of industrial nursery type greenhouses vs. bedroom/garages/warehouse grows. But once again this is moot because the scale I'm talking about is not currently legal or feasible without the ability to access the financial system or insurance for that matter.

The scale/size restrictions on the grower is going to be key.

A guy set up for 2 acres of hothouse tomatoes has a huge advantage on a guy with 20 grow rooms. From a nursery standpoint weed is a breeze. You want hard think orchids or poinsettias.

Anyhow I just hope this nice little cottage industry does not become corporate dominated once the money becomes bankable--> even grapes have crop insurance. futures, grades standardized... Industry trade groups. The money is there so these types are inevitable.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

From a nursery standpoint weed is a breeze. You want hard think orchids or poinsettias.

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Thing is truly great weed, is hard to produce in green house/outdoor formats IMO.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

Highangle: Thanks for the info. Automation is inevitable for me. Thats why the undercurrents are so appealing. Might as well get rid of the medium too.

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I hope you're not trading the witch for the devil...

Cubic yards of gro rocks can be a pain in the ass or a long wait to reuse, and they're too expensive not to reuse...

The thing that makes Undercurrents look so damn sexy is Heath's trees. But 2 months vegging under big lights 24/7 costs as much as 4 months flowering in the same room. When total cost per gram of product produced over time is considered, monocrop SOG with zero or minimal veg always wins, and every penny saved over any other method goes straight to your bottom line. You can pull 3 SOG grows in the same time as 1 tree grow, with less risk of losing the odd pound of retail flower if you sneeze wrong or a plant falls over.

I've seen where you've gone to war online over your bloom booster, so I won't broach the issue, but it may have you a bit concerned about perceived waste when 2 weeks of use in midflower costs more than the whole rest of your nute program. If I were going to make a suggestion to someone who is obviously a good grower with refined methods, I'd say try anything new on a small scale, at the same time and with the same cut you're also growing out by other methods. Be a hardcore empiricist. Measure rigorously, and let the comparative numbers and labor input decide what's best for your balance sheet. It's a business, right?

I used to grow 6-plant vert donuts and yield over 1gpw in 8 weeks of flower and 1 week of full-light veg. But it's too much work to scale up, and if you don't put in that work training and plucking, yields drop like a rock. I'm hoping Undercurrents doesn't have any of those "hidden" drawbacks, and isn't so high speed and precisely balanced that one wrong move can fuck things up.

I know you'll kick ass with whatever you do. It's going to be a blast watching you blow it up bigtime with Undercurrents, and sharing your thoughts!

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Originally Posted by TBS

I agree that the farmer mindset will (is already) taking over.

Disagree that outdoor will supplant indoor. You get one crop outdoors vs 4+ indoors. Good luck keeping pests at bay outside when concentrates in OR can't have > 0.1ppm of pesticides. Dispensaries are finding quality of outdoor is too variable for today's consumer - in OR anyway. Then ya gotta figure out how to keep it fresh for a year.

Current experience in So OR. http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/..._underway.html

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That control freak hippie chick at the end of the article made me kek a little bit. I had to gargle and brush my teeth at her authoritarian power trip.
She seems like the kind that drives her clapped out Prius 11mph below the speed limit on a straight 2-lane just so she'll feel in control of that line of cars behind her that can't pass...

Yeah. Whatever I decide, Ill start small for sure.

I'm putting up some fairly big rooms, and the labor is intensive right now. Always has me looking for a better way.

The great thing about coco, is you can veg a huge plant in a solo cup. Switch it to a 5gal smart pot, and let it take hold over 4-5 days, and youre ready to flip.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

I meant more along the lines of industrial nursery type greenhouses vs. bedroom/garages/warehouse grows. But once again this is moot because the scale I'm talking about is not currently legal or feasible without the ability to access the financial system or insurance for that matter.

The scale/size restrictions on the grower is going to be key.

A guy set up for 2 acres of hothouse tomatoes has a huge advantage on a guy with 20 grow rooms. From a nursery standpoint weed is a breeze. You want hard think orchids or poinsettias.

Anyhow I just hope this nice little cottage industry does not become corporate dominated once the money becomes bankable--> even grapes have crop insurance. futures, grades standardized... Industry trade groups. The money is there so these types are inevitable.

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Question is how long will it be before cannabis is legal federally? Maybe Clinton will get it done in her second term but I'm not hopeful.
In the meantime, don't know about WA or CO but max size of grows in OR will be 40KSF outdoor plus 10K indoor. Tax authorities want to limit supply to keep price high. OLCC also reserves the right to cut grow sizes if they think supply is too high

There's guys setting up 100Ksf indoor grows in Las Vegas warehouse space. I'm also seeing people claiming to write insurance for the cannabis industry.

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Originally Posted by highangle

That control freak hippie chick at the end of the article made me kek a little bit. I had to gargle and brush my teeth at her authoritarian power trip.
She seems like the kind that drives her clapped out Prius 11mph below the speed limit on a straight 2-lane just so she'll feel in control of that line of cars behind her that can't pass...

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Yep, stereotypical hippy grower in So OR. I doubt she will be a survivor in this brave new world.
The key point to me was that dispensary owner saying he won't take outdoor grown bud.

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Originally Posted by TBS

Question is how long will it be before cannabis is legal federally? Maybe Clinton will get it done in her second term but I'm not hopeful.
In the meantime, don't know about WA or CO but max size of grows in OR will be 40KSF outdoor plus 10K indoor. Tax authorities want to limit supply to keep price high. OLCC also reserves the right to cut grow sizes if they think supply is too high

There's guys setting up 100Ksf indoor grows in Las Vegas warehouse space. I'm also seeing people claiming to write insurance for the cannabis industry.



Yep, stereotypical hippy grower in So OR. I doubt she will be a survivor in this brave new world.
The key point to me was that dispensary owner saying he won't take outdoor grown bud.

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40k sft? A acre is 44k. 10k is almost a 1/4 acre

Id wager that it's going to become all about the purity of extracts -- at that point the actual plant potency is not a issue. It's simply processing not unlike sugar from corn.

Do you know a good contact to help thru the process of becoming a legal grower of this size?

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Originally Posted by TBS

There's guys setting up 100Ksf indoor grows in Las Vegas warehouse space.

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I would hate to try and cool that.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

Yeah. Whatever I decide, Ill start small for sure.

I'm putting up some fairly big rooms, and the labor is intensive right now. Always has me looking for a better way.

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I feel ya, bro. Farming's hard work. Even harder when you're doing a task for the first time, and have to generally keep things on the down low.

"Hi neighbor! Heard all the banging and sawing, and wondered what you got going on up here?!"

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The great thing about coco, is you can veg a huge plant in a solo cup. Switch it to a 5gal smart pot, and let it take hold over 4-5 days, and your'e ready to flip.

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Yep. You can also flower a big plant in a plastic cup with coco. That's the secret for high yields with coco: use a small pot that that gets hyperoxygenated because you're exchanging more air, hence oxygen, past the roots because you're feeding it several times a day to keep it from drying out.

The downside to this is one of the main reasons I don't do smart pots or grow bags anymore: I have trouble enough keeping heavy plants upright with a hard flat bottomed pot and a trellis net screwed to the walls...

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

I would hate to try and cool that.

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Try fkn trimming it...

I'd hate to try to capitalize that...even assuming I could unload 8 tons of ganj as soon as it dried...