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I'm looking to pick up a pair of BD Helio 200s or BD Helio 200 LTs. Anyone know the heal/toe stack height difference of each of them? I understand that the LTs have less because they have no length adjustability, but wondering if the regular 200s will be workable for me since I'm a bit sensitive to ramp angle (I much prefer flat or nearly flat bindings).
https://skimo.co/pin-heightsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
Thanks! Looks like the 200 is less than Kingpins, which weren't too much delta for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Delta > 10mm means you need a very upright boot (lean angle 12 degrees or less, does that even exist out of the box) or you end be so far over your tips that it becomes really challenging to ski fast in hard snow without getting some weird hang ups from driving too hard from the tip while the tail is just floating about in a vague manner. Even is powder it can be challenging if the ski doesn't have a fair bit of early rise. It makes me feel like I'm on shorter skis than I want.
Stack on the other hand is a non issue in soft snow and in hard snow it's always seemed to be beneficial (for angulation particularly) so shimming toes is by far the easiest and cheapest way to fix any tech binding.
Gee who cameup with the whole shim yer toe thing ?
I never do
My post #1 in this thread has that info. It's not up to date with respect to this years' models, but yeah ... minimal ramp (8mm) on the Helio 200s (Haute Routes) and about 3mm when you remove the 5.5mm adjuster plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
I like skimo's methodology (referencing the pin locations to measure it), but I think they got an intern to do some of their measuring ;-)
... Thom
I've been shimming toes for 30 years. In the early years it was just racers getting fully dialled-in but that moved in to the recreational market around the early 2000's. On your side of the pond I know that Steve Bagley at Snowbird and Bud Heisman in Reno were doing it back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
As has been said above, for many it's just not an issue - and if you're one of those then great/lucky for you - but there's a good proportion of skiers for which it is a huge help. Alpine bindings have been pretty low delta for years now (0-6mm) and early tech bindings had huge delta (15-17mm) but now with 'freeriders' seeking the same level of downhill performance out of their boots/tech bindings that they get out of their alpine kit the subject of delta angles has moved in to the tech binding market as well.
I still remember when I learned about binding delta and toe shimming, during an evening presentation by:
http://www.thebootguys.com
... on December 14 of 1998 during a PSIA race clinic (conducted by a really good coach, who essentially got kicked out of PSIA for being a really good coach) at Stratton.
Seemed totally counterintuitive.
But the next morning, after some jerryrigging, top of a GS course on North American (now Frank's Fall Line), all those years of "Get More Forward" were now accomplished, wow.
Many of the racers on the team I was coaching at the time were also transformed.
Other, "uh, yeah, coach, um, I guess it's better, I dunno."
When I asked the boot guy about this the next year, he replied that, "some people are proprioceptively dead."
The first reference I know of about shimming toes was in Warren Witherell's book The Athletic Skier. He talked very negatively about bindings that were higher in the heel. IIRC, the higher heel came about only because of the need to accommodate brakes. So it's certainly not a recent concept as brakes started to appear in the mid seventies.
This a very individual thing, for some it doesn't matter for some it matters a little, and for some it's extremely important.
Pretty sure most race bindings are flat or close to it.
The Tech binding thing brought it dramatically to light as 15mm+ heel heights are higher than any alpine binding ever was. I think the highest Alpine delta is +9 with most probably +5.
Cool. I just ordered some 4.7MM shims and associated scews (8x18mm pozi #1) from SkiMo to cut down on that delta. 8mm isn't much, but I think I'll prefer 3.3mm :)Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
"reconciled Quantum Mechanics & General Relativity"... are you sure you're not getting our marketing confused with DPS?
All jokes aside, most everything we wrote about in our "marketing bullshit" was about the FR14 - a binding most folks in the USA have no idea exists. We never said we invented the binding. We state in the first sentence that ATK makes it.
Also, there was more to it than just asking them to throw a couple extra mm's of extra material under the toe. We needed to ensure the binding still skied and functioned properly. Additionally, the holes where the screws go through the toe piece has been modified to ensure proper screw penetration into the ski. Since screws do not come in 3.5mm increments this was important since we typically ski wide skis and wanted to ensure as much screw retention within the ski core as possible.
Regardless, I am sorry out marketing rubbed you the wrong way. I hate spin on products in every industry. That's why we are always trying to be as transparent as possible and communicate with our customers directly and honestly. It's why I am here on TGR and why we offer live chat services on our website.
I am happy you are on here calling me on our shit and I will continue to give real answers on why we made our design choices as skiers first and not just a bunch of marketing dorks trying to hustle some product another company would let us put our name on. If I wanted to do that we would have been pushing rebranded Tyrolia bindings years ago!
Can you get them in anodized red next year?
Thanks.
Purple would be hot too.
Both of those colors would be fire. I guess it just depends what color jacket I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
why does that thing have 4 eyeballs and a penis?
Just to space u out
well, mission accomplished
I'll take a pair if you're cutting some shims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
I'm looking into getting the Helio 200 from Black Diamond, which has an MSRP of 700. Interestingly, the Helio 200 LT has an MSRP of 550 and the only difference I notice between the two is the LT is missing the adjustment plate, which BD sells separately for $65. Am I correct in understanding that I can piece together a Helio 200 by purchasing the binding and adjustment plate separately? I guess I would need to find somewhere to source the proper length screws
FTR, as a prior EU exporter.......... getting anything into the states & onto the market is an accomplishment. There are so many places in the chain that things can go sideways. Props.
Yes from what BD says. I bought Helio 200 last year (and wanted the adjustment plate); wish I could've got the 200LT and saved some $$$ though. Helio 200 includes adjustment plate, crampon hook and leash. Has a slightly different toe piece. The MSRP for those three accessories + toe adds up to $150, but it's a question of what you need/want with the 200LT+individual accessories option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Ah, didn't realize that the 200LT leaves out the crampon hook and leash, now it makes more sense. Thanks! Are you sure the toe pieces are different other than the crampon hook? Looks like they are both monolink 1.0
Question... have the heel riser positions been modified in conjunction with the higher toe height?Quote:
Originally Posted by Melee
The reason I personally try to avoid high delta bindings is that it's easy for me to shim but then my strides are all off... flat isn't flat anymore and the high riser is lower.
That's not an issue on bindings with a multiple heel riser positions so maybe the fact that yours has 5 is ok? A number of newer options have only 1 riser that's pretty low and if I need to shim that binding there's almost no chance it will work for my on the climb.
Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
Good point. Another reason why we didn't go with a zero delta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
You definitely have lots of riser options with the Voyager and they are all useful.
That being said depending on your boot and how you configure the freeride spacer you may not be perfectly flat while not using a heel riser. This is the case with the Voyager XIV and FR14 utilizing the freeride spacer. That being said with some boot combos the taller toe on the Voyager with the freeride spacer will create a flatter scenario while not using using a riser.
I personally really dig that I wouldn’t have to shim the voyager. I appreciate being able to shim if needed and I do on my tectons...but not having to add weight or parts is cool.
Luke adds the weight for you (Luke - notice smiley which follows) :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
... Thom
Laser table not accessible this time, dang.
Instead used a flapper disk on a 4.5" angle grinder plus a deburring tool for the hand-made, uh, character. Lol
Not as polished as Jon's acrylic with the straight cuts, so those seeking risers for their euro-spec fr14 should buy them from him.
If I get access to the machines again soon, I can make a few sets but don't pester me plz.
Snow is falling in the mountains.
Cheers
Attachment 344366
According to SkiMo’s 200 LT page Questions :Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
“aside from the packaging and aesthetic differences, the LT uses a different toe piece. It is the cheaper toe found on the Helio 145 & 180 vs the lighter race toe found on the Helio 110 and 200. The heels are likewise machined a bit differently and the LT has jig support for a fixed mount (the 200 does not).”
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
man that is some solid fucking work right there, looks greatQuote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
only question i have is - did you go for the pre-seasoned cutting board or the new one?
Bought a new sheet of HDPE. Couldn't part with the cuttingboard [emoji41][emoji481]
Impressive and pretty damn polished I'd say. With those tools I may succeed in making a rough oval. A rectangle would be within reach too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
A rounded home plate shape FTW ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
I checked the spacing today on mine (boots are maestrales). Looks like 10 mm between plate and boot heel, but 14-ish mm between ski and boot heel depending on where it goes. The adjustment range for the spacer is supposed to be 14-20 mm so I'll have to mount it in the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by teamdirt
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
[QUOTE=fleaches;6096111]This is what I'm planning to try, I'll report back in a couple of weeks. You'd need AL05 universal spacer, and check with your specific boots if the gap falls in the adjustment range of the spacer.
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app[/QUOTE
Conclusion:
No you can not mount on the plate.....
Furthermore:
the Universal freeride spacer (05) does not work with the Helio 180 and Hoji Freetour as it is supposed to, (as per another thread). At its absolute lowest setting there is not any gap between the height of the boot and spacer so you can't lock the heel into the binding....
I will need to mod something up....
Did you ever measure the ramp on the C-Raider 12's? Did that new toe piece make it any different than the R12 or R14's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Sorry, I forgot - I'll check it tomorrow and let you know. The taller Freeraider 14 toe with the reduced delta is currently only available on the Moment branded version but it will be on general release in the future but quite when I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
Just arrived. Fuck me this is well built!!!!
Attachment 346287
hey calibrit can you please tell me if there is a config on the m6 that would allow for the new C-Raider toes to be mounted? it should be 45 or 46mm square or soQuote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
the M06... hottest jig in all the land.