2020-2021 Gear Rumors / Pictures etc

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Originally Posted by skibrd

Prove me wrong.

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Kingpins: Made by Marker. High failure rate with multiple failure modes. Doesn't ski as well as Shift. Pointlessly heavy for long tours. Not quite damp enough or durable enough for inbounds. Zero reason to choose them over a Tecton or Shift depending on use.

Cast: Need to take the fucking binding on and off the ski. Doesn't work with Zero G Pro Tours or Maestrale RS/XT. Great option if you want to huck to flag in the backcountry or pretend you're just too big and strong for all the other bindings that have worked perfectly well for many skier who are probably bigger, stronger and better than you.

Shift: Fiddly set up but they just work. Adequate for short tours. Ski like an alpine binding inbounds. If they don't you probably set them up wrong.

Here is the real kicker: If you know how to skin and have ankles that work properly, you don't need a high riser. High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.

Prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by rob stokes

The Alpinist has two risers...I only every use the middle ‘flap on pins’ riser. Any steeper than that I get tired and I’m lazy.


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Agreed. The tall riser is all the height you ever need. I normally just use the lower one. Which is a great height.

Fischer's bold new move, the choice of pink or blue.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Kingpins: Made by Marker. High failure rate with multiple failure modes. Doesn't ski as well as Shift. Pointlessly heavy for long tours. Not quite damp enough or durable enough for inbounds. Zero reason to choose them over a Tecton or Shift depending on use.

Cast: Need to take the fucking binding on and off the ski. Doesn't work with Zero G Pro Tours or Maestrale RS/XT. Great option if you want to huck to flag in the backcountry or pretend you're just too big and strong for all the other bindings that have worked perfectly well for many skier who are probably bigger, stronger and better than you.

Shift: Fiddly set up but they just work. Adequate for short tours. Ski like an alpine binding inbounds. If they don't you probably set them up wrong.

Here is the real kicker: If you know how to skin and have ankles that work properly, you don't need a high riser. High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.

Prove me wrong.

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Truth. Haven’t had one problem with the stupid steep skin tracks in the wasatch. Only problems I have is with the morons who set them that way. Set a track so that is useable for days for multiple users! Or start earlier, so you’re not in such a hurry to get back to your desk job!

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The shape on the left doesn't seem to match anything that's currently in Moments lineup. Looks like it might be a new frontside offering.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Kingpins: Made by Marker. High failure rate with multiple failure modes. Doesn't ski as well as Shift. Pointlessly heavy for long tours. Not quite damp enough or durable enough for inbounds. Zero reason to choose them over a Tecton or Shift depending on use.

Cast: Need to take the fucking binding on and off the ski. Doesn't work with Zero G Pro Tours or Maestrale RS/XT. Great option if you want to huck to flag in the backcountry or pretend you're just too big and strong for all the other bindings that have worked perfectly well for many skier who are probably bigger, stronger and better than you.

Shift: Fiddly set up but they just work. Adequate for short tours. Ski like an alpine binding inbounds. If they don't you probably set them up wrong.

Here is the real kicker: If you know how to skin and have ankles that work properly, you don't need a high riser. High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.

Prove me wrong.

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Kingpins - I see more KP’s inbounds and touring then Shifts. They work better for any application then Shifts because your skis actually stay on your feet. People who know, know, those who don’t, I’m tired of trying to get you to open your eyes. These are simply the best skiing pin binding there is.

I’m 95% sure CAST works with both, call and get the correct AFD. I asked before I got my set up because I’m probably switching from the XT Free to Zero G Pro Tour blah blah blah. I don’t huck, just like to have the correct tool for the job. I prefer to walk up hill and actually enjoy the skiing, instead of having my knees feel like I skied coral reef all day. Using the bigger/stronger/better excuse to get crap is just fine, simple fact is CAST skis better. And if you are walking long distances in CAST, you are using the wrong tool for the job. Just cause you can use a 10lb sledge hammer to put a finishing nail in, doesn’t mean you should.

Shifts, simple, don’t keep you in unless you set them up to where you might as well bold your boot to the ski. Oh, and they ski like shit, and tour worse. Gimmick that made Solomon/Atomic a ton of money. But I can’t stand any Atomic/Solomon binding, Pivots all the way.

Know how to skin with fused ankles? Good thing I’m not fat and can touch my toes, maybe?

Tool for the job, that simple. If you are a weekend warrior who has one pair of skis and wants to tour once every few weekends, buy Shift, they are the correct tool for the job. If you have a few pairs of skis and don’t plan on 7k plus days, Kingpins are great. Will ski closest to what you are used to. If you have a quiver, CAST for a side country set up is your single best option.


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God this discussion on KP vs Shift is entertaining. I’ve skied over 100 days on my shift, and the wife put 150 on her KP. This year we have her on shifts and she is blown away with how they dampen the ride. With the KP all that transmitted energy goes from the skis to the pins to your boot then straight to your fucking soul.
But agreed, right tool for the job! Do I still have a pin setup YUP, do I have shifts YUP! In fact just traveling back from Japan with my shifts and had some long touring days on them — I easily matched other athletic dudes with full pin setups on the way up but had significantly more fun charging downhill!

/thread drift

I’m stoked for the black color way


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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

you Monster 98 fans - check out the Salomon Stance 96, you might be pleasantly surprised

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That doesn't make any sense to me. The Monster 98 is more than a pound heavier PER SKI. Totally different weight class. There's no way the Stance skis just as well in firm snow.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Here is the real kicker: If you know how to skin and have ankles that work properly, you don't need a high riser. High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.

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Not just ankles, but just anatomy in general. I was born with short Achilles tendons - very limited dorsiflexion - which means I either blow out my calves using lower risers than I want, or I use high risers. Back when the Dynafit Speed Radical 1.0 was all the rage, I would typically be on my high riser when many were on their middle riser. Your point makes some sense, but maybe soften up your attitude a little with respect to high risers? There's a lot of people who just can't reasonably tour with the 'pin flap' riser height.

The new Dukes look like an great option for people who are sponsered by Marker/Volkl. Shifts probably make more sense because they're a proven product and less faff and moving pieces to jam up with snow. But we'll see, I guess.

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Originally Posted by skibrd

Kingpins - I see more KP’s inbounds and touring then Shifts. They work better for any application then Shifts because your skis actually stay on your feet. People who know, know, those who don’t, I’m tired of trying to get you to open your eyes. These are simply the best skiing pin binding there is.

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Kingpins are more prevalent because they were the first binding with an alpine-like heelpiece. First-to-market makes a big difference in terms of market share. The Tecton skis a bit better, is lighter, and has a more reliable release mechanism (lateral release at the toe). It also has had less in-field problems, at least from what I've heard and seen. There's just no reason to buy a Kingpin after the Tecton came onto the market.

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Shifts, simple, don’t keep you in unless you set them up to where you might as well bold your boot to the ski. Oh, and they ski like shit, and tour worse. Gimmick that made Solomon/Atomic a ton of money. But I can’t stand any Atomic/Solomon binding, Pivots all the way.

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I have no problem staying in my Shifts and I huck a ton. At 185 lbs in street clothes, I set the heels at ~11.5 because that's the point where I get minor calf strain before releasing. Toes at 10 and my skis stay on in high speed carves through chickenhead bullshit at speed. They release just like the other alpine bindings I've used. I'm not sure if people are failing to set them up correctly, or if there's a quality control issue, but myself and many others don't have the problem in Shifts that a few have had. If you personally have had problems, I'd suggest having a professional set up a different Shift binding before just writing it off entirely. But I get if you don't want to do that and just use CAST instead. Personally, myself and many others would rather not mess with the faff of juggling extra gear if we don't need to.

I have other skis with pin bindings when long distance skinning is in the cards, but I generally use Shifts here in Europe, since long distance skins aren't common but having a touring binding for mobility if shit hits the fan is pretty important.

Also... it shocks me how many people here in Europe ride with avalanche gear but not touring bindings - aka no way of quickly reaching their buried partner in powder.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Truth. Haven’t had one problem with the stupid steep skin tracks in the wasatch. Only problems I have is with the morons who set them that way. Set a track so that is useable for days for multiple users! Or start earlier, so you’re not in such a hurry to get back to your desk job!

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It’s my skin track, I’ll set it how I want!


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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Fischer's bold new move, the choice of pink or blue.

Attachment 314489

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I guess Hattrup just let the “let’s copy the hip Black Crows and Faction look” slide by???


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This is silly, all these bindings have pros and cons to argue one is definitively better or worse is silly and ignores the reality of the majority of experiences. I’ve had my issues with all of them, at the end of the day each one is a compromise, just be aware of what you’re buying. One will be better than others for each individual needs, they all have a place. I’m gonna focus on my experience with the Duke PT, as this is the new gear thread and plenty of discussion about why Shift/CAST/KingPin/Tecton all rock or suck elsewhere. For comparison purposes however, at this point I would choose a Duke PT for a travel ski (mostly lift, some touring) and Tectons for a wider pow ski (limited lifts, mostly touring, I think there is a lot to be said for an alpine style heel on wider skis, even in soft snow).

Duke PT thoughts:
Toe height adjustment is pretty much the same as on Marker SoleID jester/griffin toes. It’s solid and proven. Full confidence it will hold it’s toe height when adjusted. Less fun to adjust however, if moving between various soles.

You can ski this binding with alpine, grip walk or other 9523 soles. Like the shift or CAST you don’t need tech inserts to ski it, just to tour.

Heel engagement is very solid but also much easier to step into than previous Marker duke/jester heels. There is enough vertical elasticity I am not worried about pre-release when hitting bumps or troughs like I have experienced with other cross over bindings.

It skis like a jester. Same stack height, no wobble, solid.

Climb bar options of zero or 10degrees is sufficient for me. I have also spent the last year+ touring on shifts and Alpinist so I really don’t care about the higher angles. You can if you want to. I have shit dorsiflexion (also known as ankle mobility) btw.

Brake retention in uphill mode is very secure. I don’t see the brakes inadvertently deploying while skinning.

Toe piece lock down is very secure. It’s impossible for the thing to come off while your boot is clicked in. There are also multiple, redundant points of contact. Failure of any one won’t cause the toe to fly off.

Toe conversion is the most fiddly of the group IMO, it’s not difficult, but there is potential for icing up. It’s not a binding I’d want on any day where I’m doing a lot of transitions. This is the point I foresee most consumer bitching coming from. I also doubt most consumers would be willing to deal with CAST. YMMV.

In the event you’re a big dumb dumb and lose the downhill toe component you can get down the mountain in tech toes. Avoid this at all costs, and I wouldn’t start linking turns but you could get yourself down.

You won’t loose the toe in the ‘quick tour’ mode it’s still firmly held on to the mounted binding, you’ll just look like a goober and it’s a bit obnoxious for anything other than a quick few hundred feet.

It’s a good binding, I’d be ok buying a first year iteration (but I also did this with Shifts). Overall on the spectrum of tour to resort this is much more aligned with the resort side. I’d call it an alpine binding with option to tour. Similar to Shifts and the original Duke, I doubt most will ever go uphill, but that’s ok. It’s good to ave another option to compare to.

Compared to CAST it’s a lighter set up, and not having to carry the tech toes with you is nice. One less thing to carry to the mountain or forget in your other pack.

Compared to shift it’s clearly heavier and a bit more fiddling to swap from ski to tour and viseversa. I also think a more solid alpine connection.

If you’re comparing it to a kingpin or Tecton I think you’re lost and confused.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Here is the real kicker: If you know how to skin and have ankles that work properly, you don't need a high riser. High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.

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soooo people who ski markers?

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Originally Posted by SkiLyft

... all that transmitted energy goes from the skis to the pins to your boot then straight to your fucking soul

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Sig worthy stuff here ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by phatty

That's the ski I'm most interested in out for next year. After hearing such great things about the new Mantra, the Katana sounds like a real winner.

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I guess the Confession is dead.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Kingpins are more prevalent because they were the first binding with an alpine-like heelpiece. First-to-market makes a big difference in terms of market share. The Tecton skis a bit better, is lighter, and has a more reliable release mechanism (lateral release at the toe). It also has had less in-field problems, at least from what I've heard and seen. There's just no reason to buy a Kingpin after the Tecton came onto the market.

I have no problem staying in my Shifts and I huck a ton. At 185 lbs in street clothes, I set the heels at ~11.5 because that's the point where I get minor calf strain before releasing. Toes at 10 and my skis stay on in high speed carves through chickenhead bullshit at speed. They release just like the other alpine bindings I've used. I'm not sure if people are failing to set them up correctly, or if there's a quality control issue, but myself and many others don't have the problem in Shifts that a few have had. If you personally have had problems, I'd suggest having a professional set up a different Shift binding before just writing it off entirely. But I get if you don't want to do that and just use CAST instead. Personally, myself and many others would rather not mess with the faff of juggling extra gear if we don't need to.

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100% agree on both accounts. I don't get why anyone would buy kingpins at this point when the Tectons exist.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

100% agree on both accounts. I don't get why anyone would buy kingpins at this point when the Tectons exist.

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Agree on this. About to buy some I think for V Werks katanas.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

100% agree on both accounts. I don't get why anyone would buy kingpins at this point when the Tectons exist.

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Been saying that for years. Plus Tectons never had pins shearing out...

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Originally Posted by ffmedic84

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Skied the new Katana, it is a very turny ski. Feel like it has a 16m turn radius despite what the specs say. Doesn't like to be let loose and run, wants to be worked and turned constantly, and across the fall line. That being said, it does turn well. It is soft and damp and holds and edge through chop. It is heavy. It is loud as hell. Like a carbon dps, but a few notes lower. Like riding a Norco VPS loud. I think the skis I skied could be more detuned, so I will reasses after I do that.

Setting up the shift correctly is easy. Getting it to stay adjusted is hard. Walking out of them is easy. Cast is brilliant.

I'm happy with the trend from big brands towards skis for skiers and not holiday makers.

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Originally Posted by NorCalNomad

Been saying that for years. Plus Tectons never had pins shearing out...

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Chatted with an old guy who came into my shop the other day. He has broken 3 tecton heels.

Well, the kingpins have multiple threads dedicated to them failing, so...

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Chatted with an old guy who came into my shop the other day. He has broken 3 tecton heels.

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THread drift....
Tele may suck, but at least we don't have to worry about the heel of our binding breaking LOL :)

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Chatted with an old guy who came into my shop the other day. He has broken 3 tecton heels.

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user error? some ppl are just rough on gear.

kingpin had a legit recall iirc?

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Skied the new Katana, it is a very turny ski. Feel like it has a 16m turn radius despite what the specs say. Doesn't like to be let loose and run, wants to be worked and turned constantly, and across the fall line. That being said, it does turn well. It is soft and damp and holds and edge through chop. It is heavy. It is loud as hell. Like a carbon dps, but a few notes lower. Like riding a Norco VPS loud. I think the skis I skied could be more detuned, so I will reasses after I do that.

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Not my experience on them at all (2x on the 191 and 1x on the 184). Had no problem making super-G sweepers at a lot of speed. BUT, could slow down and ski in easy, short turns if desired. No bid deal either way. Loud, yes, tinny carbon feel underfoot...not my experience with them. This is a ski that can kill on demand.

The sound of carbon skis bothers some people a lot more than others, and has a surprisingly large effect on how much you like/trust a ski. Try skiing one with earplugs in some time.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

user error? some ppl are just rough on gear.

kingpin had a legit recall iirc?

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Nah there was a legit problem with the brake retainers braking on the first round if you stowed them by stomping on them in the wrong order. But at least it didn't stop the binding from working or eject you out of the binding.

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Originally Posted by NorCalNomad

Nah there was a legit problem with the brake retainers braking on the first round if you stowed them by stomping on them in the wrong order. But at least it didn't stop the binding from working or eject you out of the binding.

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You're forgetting the recall for faulty toe pins.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2018/ma...to-fall-hazard

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Skied the new Katana, it is a very turny ski. Feel like it has a 16m turn radius despite what the specs say. Doesn't like to be let loose and run, wants to be worked and turned constantly, and across the fall line. That being said, it does turn well. It is soft and damp and holds and edge through chop. It is heavy. It is loud as hell. Like a carbon dps, but a few notes lower. Like riding a Norco VPS loud. I think the skis I skied could be more detuned, so I will reasses after I do that.

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Sounds a lot like a Woodsman 108. Damp, stable, not hooky, but just wanted to turn and not slash. Even at -2.

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Originally Posted by mn_teleswede

THread drift....
Tele may suck, but at least we don't have to worry about the heel of our binding breaking LOL :)

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That is not the least compelling argument for teleing I've heard, but it still completely fails to move the needle.

Per conflicting Katana 108 quick reviews: I don't think I'm the only one here who feels these are essentially useless without direct comparisons to comparable skis. People ski different; at least if I know you like X ski for this reason but didn't like Y for that reason, I can make an inference. Old ass bike references aren't exceptionally helpful, but I get what you're saying about noise.

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Originally Posted by ZomblibulaX

That is not the least compelling argument for teleing I've heard, but it still completely fails to move the needle.

Per conflicting Katana 108 quick reviews: I don't think I'm the only one here who feels these are essentially useless without direct comparisons to comparable skis. People ski different; at least if I know you like X ski for this reason but didn't like Y for that reason, I can make an inference. Old ass bike references aren't exceptionally helpful, but I get what you're saying about noise.

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Yep, what you said. Two very similar skiers can have very different experiences on the same ski in the same conditions. It's like me with most Atomic skis (e.g. Vantage 97's, Backland 107, etc), I've tried a lot of them and there is not one of them that I would like to own. But my shop owner buddy, who is roughly my size and a good skier, prefers them to just about anything else. Fortunately, we have options to suit us all. About the only way reviews are of use is if you find a reviewer who consistently likes the same gear as you. For instance, Blister of the last couple years. With Luke and Sam, both jibby jr. petite's, doing most of the reviewing it has become mostly meaningless for me. (not totally sure what jibby means so I hope I used the term correctly) But Paul Forward on the other hand, pretty much lines up nearly exactly with my preferences. And some attributes (e.g. the noise a ski makes) are more important to some than others. Again, we got options.

It also sounds like the tunes (or finishes) on the demo katanas are different.

Skied a Line Blade yesterday, unbelievable ski...

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Originally Posted by MMMSKI

Skied a Line Blade yesterday, unbelievable ski...

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Mind elaborating?

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Yep, what you said. Two very similar skiers can have very different experiences on the same ski in the same conditions. It's like me with most Atomic skis (e.g. Vantage 97's, Backland 107, etc), I've tried a lot of them and there is not one of them that I would like to own. But my shop owner buddy, who is roughly my size and a good skier, prefers them to just about anything else. Fortunately, we have options to suit us all. About the only way reviews are of use is if you find a reviewer who consistently likes the same gear as you. For instance, Blister of the last couple years. With Luke and Sam, both jibby jr. petite's, doing most of the reviewing it has become mostly meaningless for me. (not totally sure what jibby means so I hope I used the term correctly) But Paul Forward on the other hand, pretty much lines up nearly exactly with my preferences. And some attributes (e.g. the noise a ski makes) are more important to some than others. Again, we got options.

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I usually skim Luke and Sams review comments and right to Jonathan or Paul’s comments. They line up better with the skis I like usually.

Sound, as well as feel, are super important. One of the reasons I haven’t gotten along with ON3Ps is the sound they make. I really like a quieter ski, and funny pinging noises come from the ski it throws me off. I noticed a bit of weird noise coming from the Pon2oons when skiing end of a pow day groomers and settled pow when getting to the next stash, but not when in deep pow so it’s alright, cause I they are specialized tools.


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Originally Posted by adrenalated

You're forgetting the recall for faulty toe pins.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2018/ma...to-fall-hazard

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Oh I was talking about the problem with the Tecton's not all the ones with the Kingpins

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Originally Posted by MMMSKI

Skied a Line Blade yesterday, unbelievable ski...

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Most interesting looking ski in quite sometime, a fat slalom ski. Gotta give us a little more info please!

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Originally Posted by ZomblibulaX

That is not the least compelling argument for teleing I've heard, but it still completely fails to move the needle.

Per conflicting Katana 108 quick reviews: I don't think I'm the only one here who feels these are essentially useless without direct comparisons to comparable skis. People ski different; at least if I know you like X ski for this reason but didn't like Y for that reason, I can make an inference. Old ass bike references aren't exceptionally helpful, but I get what you're saying about noise.

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Skied the new Katana. My biggest takeaway is it is a very turny ski. Feel like it has a 16m turn radius despite what the specs say. Doesn't like to be let loose and run, wants to be worked and turned constantly, and across the fall line. That being said, it does turn well. It is soft and damp and holds and edge through chop. It is heavy. It is energetic. It is loud as hell. Like a carbon dps, but a few notes lower. Like riding a Norco VPS loud. I think the skis I skied could be more detuned, so I will reasses after I do that.

I regularly ski the Corvus in the same length. The Corvus is definitely a dead feeling ski but I want that in a freeride ski. Yes, when doing tight turns on flat groomers, it feels boring and dead but do Super G turns down a 30 degree groomer or charge fans in chop and I don't want a spring loaded ski. The Corvus has a much longer (and longer feeling) turn radius than the Katana. It is much more comfortable letting it run and doesn't feel like it needs to be on edge and finishing it's turns all the time. The Corvus flexes stiffer and feels stiffer.

I wouldn't buy the Katana. They have made it a fat carving ski.

FYI: 5'6" 155lbs. Skied the 184 Katana with no detune. I regularly ski the 183 Corvus with no detune, although at this point it has done it itself. I loved the 190 Corvus as well but didn't want a touring ski in that length. Would be curious about the 191 Katana