Oh nice! And that’s the same on the fr14 and r12?Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
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Oh nice! And that’s the same on the fr14 and r12?Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
The difference between the R12 and FR14 is the DIN and additionally the FR14 comes with the new style freeride spacer included.
The freeride spacer also fits the R12 and can be used with that system as well, but must be installed with the binding (this version of the freeride spacer must be mated with the binding during install).
Thanks. That’s a nice feature I wasn’t aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by macon
Gonna be out on the fr14s on new sticks next weekend. Can't wait, already enjoyed them on the pin 95 but moved to lighter and want to get more runs.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ab16fa790a.jpg
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IMHO downhill powder performance isn’t ever really on my radar as that medium softens everything up; if a binding is acceptable in crappy icy stuff, it’ll be fine in powder. My beef comes in with snow packing up in the heel on the up, and the reason I got rid of my Kingpins. I think the ions, Zeds and Alpinists are well-designed in this manner with the angles forcing snow out and away. I don’t have any experience with ATKs, but all the angles look pretty square. Probably not as big an issue in the Rockies mid-winter, but maybe problematic everywhere and everywhen else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeze
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The atk fr14 has no problem with snow buildup. Zero.
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I took a decent spill with ATKs - a pair of Raider 12 2.0s - last year and they did not release. I think that they should have and it made my right knee kind of unhappy for a time there. It was not very confidence inspiring, like at all. Hence me being pleasantly surprised at how FR14s performed.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Sorry to post this video yet again, but if people have not seen it then rejoice :) FR12s and FR14s are identical as far as I know, other than their DIN (5-12 vs 8-14), their color and that FR14s come with Freeride spacers included. The brakes are identical on both bindings - as has been mentioned above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kr7edoIJ5o
Sorry to pester, but just so I understand this, if you're transitioning without removing the skis, you can kick the tail up behind you/tail by your shoulder, rip the skin from the tail and press the brake button, move the ski back to parallel with the ground, stomp in, continue ripping the skin to the tip, and you're good to go?Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
any updates from the Crest folk? It's an ATK at a reasonable price point
Seems like yes. I’ll mount my fr14 and confirm.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
Sure does. I like getting the new toe on the r12 and fr14 though.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
I keep waffling on this one as well (for the same reason), much as I'd like the R12 for the riser options.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
... Thom
Pity for us fat fuckers that so many nice bindings in this category stop at an rv of 10 like the Crest. Probably some r12 or fr14 in my future though.
Honestly I never expect perfect release from a tech binding, I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't but I am also suggesting that mechanically they can only do so much in the format of any of ATK's clamps.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Hopefully somebody can chime in but I have a pair I am gonna mount on some big skis, I'll report back after some time. I have plenty of time on MTN/Backlands and Speed Turns to reference as well as some time on some BD Helio 180's (Trufio Plus)Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
Could be the start of a new thread ... sourcing springs. I recall (way back) someone sourcing softer springs for either Comforts or Verticals for a small skier. While these smaller manufacturers (i.e. not Salomon/Look/etc.) no doubt OEM their springs, I'll bet they design their housings around standard sizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
... Thom
Now we're talking. This is the kind of thinking that makes me love this placeQuote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Damn! This is OCD even for me ... I stashed away some text from a thread in a defunct forum called Backcountry World (http://www.backcountryworld.com/showthread.php?t=4540).Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
None of this is verified by me, and obviously, you're looking for stiffer not softer, but this might be a start. Here's that quoted text ...
On another note, does anyone know which of ATK's bindings share mounting patterns. I'm guessing that the ones with the elastic response (heel) system share the same heel mounting pattern. The ATK templates might be a clue, but the last time I looked at them, they were a bit puzzling.Quote:
Even by removing the inner spring I was unable to get the lateral release
low enough for a 94 lb lady to be safe.
I ordered some A9-29 springs from century spring and that did the trick.
This makes the heel very easy to rotate as the resistance of the toe hooks
at this low of a setting come in to play a much larger role.
So far so good.
---
http://www.centuryspring.com/
A9-29
od-.562"
length 1.44"
wire .081"
Stainless
See What they will do for you.
They have a $40.00 minimum order but you may get them to
send you samples or do something.
... Thom
Yeah that should work. What I have been doing if I don't want to remove the skis is reach down to rotate the heel piece into ski mode and while I'm down there press the brake button. Then you can stomp down and remove skins however you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
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So far so good, I bought Falcon's extra pair and put them on zero g 95s. Only a few days so far but they tour really well and I haven't found the low riser to be a problem, even skinning up at resorts. Speaking of which for some reason I took this setup out at an east coast resort for a day and it actually skied the ice coast hardpack pretty well. I mean it's still a pin binding but the binding was far less noticeable than the light skis. No pre releases and I have RV set lower than I normally ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
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Yeah, that is kinda the name of the game with traditional tech bindings I guess. It could be that I expected too much after lots and lots of issue free days on Vipecs and Tectons, but that slam and their failure to release had me completely loose confidence in (and stop using) R12 2.0s. Probably a bit unfair/unneccessary, but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
My confidence in FR14s is pretty damned good though. I do miss the front elasticity on Vipecs/Tectons, but for out and out touring (aka go looking for good snow) they should do the job nicely. Also, the saved weight doesn't exactly detract from their performance either - especially going uphill :)
I realized that my CAD software can import those crazy .pdf templates from the ATK site, while maintaining the scale. I'm still working through this, and it seems as if the mounting patterns vary - even among the elastic response heels (i.e. R12 vs. Crest). Toe spacing differs, but seems to at least be falling into a couple of patterns (maybe 3?).Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
It looks as if they're going for wider hole spacing as they bump from light touring, to touring to freeride binders, but I've yet to nail down the exact trend.
As I have free time, I'll try to compile this in a meaningful way.
It's getting to the point with my touring quiver that I will likely want to borrow bindings from skis (at least until I can suss out the keepers). The last thing I want to do is to have a mismatch, just out of convenience (i.e. a Tecton on a 1400g ski).
This is gonna take some thinkin'. Stay tuned ...
... Thom
The binding nuances finally forced me to start a spreadsheet. Info puled off the ATK site, but I easily could have missed something (like no magneto heel flap on Crest).
I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the RT 10 and Crest 10 (other than the magneto heel flap) ... why the extra 20g gm for the Crest - key design difference, or just incidental change?
https://galibierdesign.com/images/ot...ison_Chart.jpg
... Thom
Engineer was exhaling during the weigh in?Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
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Yea, it's not much weight difference -- but I think it's due to the additional milling on the both the RT 10 heel and toe pieces. Actually, it's surprising that there's not a bigger weight difference between the Crest and RT, considering the degree of sculpting on the RT, so maybe the UHV (Uphill Hardness Variator) on the toe piece or some other added RT feature is adding some weight to reduce that difference.
Trofeo plus weight doesn't include the heel track which weighs 33g with hardware hence the Helio version being called the 180.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
https://skimo.co/black-diamond-adjustment-plates
Ah! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
I was actually going to start a thread for ATK bindings as the info on them is a bit all over the place. It took me a long time to understand the differences. And I think your sheet is a fantastic start to the over view.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I think that you should have the honors being as I would just be stealing this image haha.
I’d also include the BD and Hagan model equivalents in the sheet. And also note if the binding is a u pin heel.
No prob ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Yeah, I kept going back to their site, 'coz I kept forgetting (for example) what an RT 10 vs. RT 2.0 was. It was getting old.
Tonight, I'll consolidate some of recent comments (above) and add the race binders to the spreadsheet. Yup, it makes sense to include the Hagan and BD model names.
.. Thom
Nice. Some good nuggets in that freeraider thread too.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Still not that sure on RT 10 vs Crest main difference.... seems odd they are both in the line. Perhaps they won’t come next season.
The RT10 has some system to setup the spring force on the toe when walking, like on the R12 / FR14. There are 5 different settings.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
http://www.atkbindings.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/rt-8-_rev04.pdf
Page 30.
Other than that and 20g there is no other major difference, the RT10 may have a slight better finish.
Ohh the uphill hardon factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
Mallwalker-
I saw on one of the threads that you have a Trab Titan. What are your thoughts on the toe piece?
Anyone able to compare skiing the Atomic Backland/Soli MTN with and without the brakes:D?
With the bindings I stay on my skis. Without, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyskirat
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
:tongue: Thanks for catching that.
Looking at replacing dynafit rad 2.0 st10's on a pair of bmt 94's for the weight savings. While the st's are cush for a pin binding, it's still an effing pin binding might as well shed the weight
Trying to minimize holes in the BMT's.
From what I can tell, I'd be putting 8 new holes in the skis to get to anything lighter. Rad 2 toes are wider than the old mount pattern (so no ssl toe swap), and the heel is way longer than anything super light according to the skimo.co chart
Before I make a plan and drill away - am I missing anything?
Most weight savings is at the heel. I'm guessing that your Radical toes give up only about 75g, with the bulk of the binding's weight being at the heel.
Skimo sells individual heels.https://skimo.co/binding-parts
They also document hole patterns here: https://skimo.co/tech-binding-hole-patterns
I don't think you'll find another toe with the same pattern.
... Thom
2.0's have the rotating toes and kiss gap heels. I am not sure if you can use other heels in place of them... Also I bet you give up more than 75g per toe as the bindings are 642g a side.
Ah! I thought "Rotation" was in the name of all of the rotating toes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
Never mind.
So yeah, assuming it's something like a "Radical ST 2.0", then skimo has the weight of the toe at 223g which 23g heavier than an ATK Haute Route/Helio 200 (toe and heel combined), about 100g heavier than a typical Dynafit toe and maybe 150g more than the lighter (but not uber light race) toes.
... Thom
So what's the final word on the helio 200 heel risers? Too low or actually just fine?
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