Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

I booked another ticket on the luxury coach with departure time of 10:30 from Enumclaw. Ill report back later on whether things work better this time. I would have gotten a 930 departure but in worried about catching it if im leaving maple valley/Covington after 8

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Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier

The Cascades need at least 3 more ski areas or massive expansion of footprints & parking of current areas to address future growth.

edit: and transportation infrastructure upgrades. Why many of the slide paths on Highway 2 don't have bollards or snow sheds or both is mind boggling.

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I don't know where you could put another ski areas in the Washington Cascades that could service Puget Sound. And parking lots are similarly constrained at locations walking distance from the lifts.

Area lift days is not particularly rising. But the number of areas is decreasing, but maybe not as much as the data indicates.

http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf
http://www.nsaa.org/media/378733/participants2019.pdf
http://www.nsaa.org/media/367755/ski...eason_1819.pdf
http://www.nsaa.org/press/industry-stats/

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Originally Posted by Iowagriz

Does that airstrip still exist in the valley near the Skookum Flats trailhead? I can't imagine it is used in the winter.

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It does. I assume people a camping there, as a VW was broken down on the exit causing a backup of angry pick-up trucks. Using it as a free lot/overflow on busy weekends makes sense.

I have a Go-Fund-Me for reopening Mt Pilchuck.

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Originally Posted by Greydon Clark

It does. I assume people a camping there, as a VW was broken down on the exit causing a backup of angry pick-up trucks. Using it as a free lot/overflow on busy weekends makes sense.

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They'd need to widen the bridge first.

Hopefully the bureaucratic difficulty of doing that across the White River will prevent it happening because we don't need that many extra people. Replacing damaged bridges has been so prohibitively difficult that they haven't been replaced/now no longer exist.

(there is a huge new environmental/erosion study of this whole stretch of the river just kicking off at the moment.. so years down the road...)

And dig a half-dozen pit toilets, which would be on brand for Crystal.

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/aviation/Al...CreekState.htm

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Originally Posted by Greydon Clark

And dig a half-dozen pit toilets, which would be on brand for Crystal.

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Now we're talkin.

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Originally Posted by Rock Knocker

I don't know where you could put another ski areas in the Washington Cascades that could service Puget Sound. And parking lots are similarly constrained at locations walking distance from the lifts.

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Back in the 1960's when the NCNP as well as the adjoining Ross Lake Recreation area were being proposed it included the development of a ski area on Ruby Mountain off Hwy 20! Which is absolutely incredible terrain. There were also a number of other development proposals included such as a tram to Price Lake.

My understanding is that these proposals were included to create support from local communities. Unfortunately the environmentalists who really pushed the bill through stripped out all development at the last moment.

50 years later the Recreation Area is managed by NCNP who treats it like inviolate wilderness where you can't scrub moss off a boulder much less build a full service ski area

There are at least half a dozen areas that could support a small-to-moderate sized ski area from a terrain viewpoint. Almost all of the best places are in the National Forests though. There might be a few areas on timber company land that would be suitable. Getting any of it developed and approved in the cultural context of Western Washington and the era of climate change is a near impossibility though.

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Originally Posted by ptavv

Getting any of it developed and approved in the cultural context of Western Washington and the era of climate change is a near impossibility though.

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this is admittedly a hurdle

timberline's bike park was held up by environmental groups in a place already designated as rec area

i can't imagine the efforts needed to open new areas from raw land

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Originally Posted by ptavv

There are at least half a dozen areas that could support a small-to-moderate sized ski area from a terrain viewpoint. Almost all of the best places are in the National Forests though. There might be a few areas on timber company land that would be suitable. Getting any of it developed and approved in the cultural context of Western Washington and the era of climate change is a near impossibility though.

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My point was based on land use and the USFS, and to a lesser extent the economics.

Where do you see possible areas from a terrain viewpoint?

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Maybe since East Peak is burned they'll let Crystal put in a chair up there now?

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Nope. PCT

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Nope. PCT

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Ah, I was editing and deleted. Doesn't the PCT go right through Stevens?

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Ah, I was editing and deleted. Doesn't the PCT go right through Stevens?

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Kircher during the last MDP offered to reroute the PCT around the back of East Peak so as not to expose hikers to the devastation that is Crystal Mountain and instead give them a view of the Norse Peak Wilderness.

The CCC rejected that.

But a lift partway up that serves neither objective is the usual compromise, right? Wrecks the area for touring and yet doesn't provide access to the killer terrain up there.

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Ah, I was editing and deleted. Doesn't the PCT go right through Stevens?

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Yep and Snoq pass. PCT was established in 1968 though

Building ski area expansion onto it in 2020 ain't happening

Y'all should come back East if things are getting crowded out there, or can't you guys ski ice anymore?

I'll be at Whiteface this weekend. 3 degree edge bevel and tan pants. Ask for change for a nickel.

Makes way more sense to use the King County fairgrounds in Enumclaw for a park and bus since almost everyone driving to Crystal goes through that point. Ranger Creek air strip gets snow in the winter and would need to be plowed regularly. And as Brit says, the bridge is tiny. Also, turning across traffic out of there would be a nightmare and require a stop light or traffic control cop.

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Originally Posted by DBerd

Back in the 1960's when the NCNP as well as the adjoining Ross Lake Recreation area were being proposed it included the development of a ski area on Ruby Mountain off Hwy 20! Which is absolutely incredible terrain.

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Where would you put the parking lot? The terrain is very steep on all aspect and at all elevations. Also, the highway is at 2,200 feet on the north side of Ruby. It often doesn't have much snow in the winter, so lower elevation skiing there would suck and you need to be above 4,000 ft to find consistent good snow.

With a few exceptions, ski areas that make money this day and age have an abundance of beginner and intermediate terrain, condos, golf courses, restaurants, shopping, ect. The N Cascades are savage beasts and would never support this.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Y'all should come back East if things are getting crowded out there, or can't you guys ski ice anymore?

I'll be at Whiteface this weekend. 3 degree edge bevel and tan pants. Ask for change for a nickel.

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Hey! AZGreg has a new employee!

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Makes way more sense to use the King County fairgrounds in Enumclaw for a park and bus since almost everyone driving to Crystal goes through that point. Ranger Creek air strip gets snow in the winter and would need to be plowed regularly. And as Brit says, the bridge is tiny. Also, turning across traffic out of there would be a nightmare and require a stop light or traffic control cop.



Where would you put the parking lot? The terrain is very steep on all aspect and at all elevations. Also, the highway is at 2,200 feet on the north side of Ruby. It often doesn't have much snow in the winter, so lower elevation skiing there would suck and you need to be above 4,000 ft to find consistent good snow.

With a few exceptions, ski areas that make money this day and age have an abundance of beginner and intermediate terrain, condos, golf courses, restaurants, shopping, ect. The N Cascades are savage beasts and would never support this.

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It was supposed to a be tram, like some other access points up the Cascade River Road.

http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history...areas-proposed

What could have been:
http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history...usfs-1970.html

"The North Cascades Conservation Council was willing to accept the Ruby Mountain tram because it lay entirely inside the Ross Lake NRA. Ira Spring and James Whittaker favored other trams, demonstrating that conservationists were not of one mind regarding tramways and access. Park Service managers were concerned that once a tramway was built on Ruby Mountain, skiers would pressure the agency to develop a ski area there. Delays due to the projected high cost eventually killed the Ruby Mountain tram proposal. "

http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history...outer-1998-ch3

Lets not also forget that WSDOT is basically unfunded thanks to Tim Eyman. We're not getting any additional or existing closed roads maintained.

There’s a well know phenomenon where you can make your own situation feel better, by temporarily experiencing a worse one, IE the, it feels so good when you stop hitting yourself on the head with a hammer scenario.

In that light, I suggest you all head to Whistler for this weekend. :FIREdevil

This won't diminish my love Crystal... by much.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Lets not also forget that WSDOT is basically unfunded thanks to Tim Eyman. We're not getting any additional or existing closed roads maintained.

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It's only a matter of time until Washington starts doing what Oregon did and requiring SnoPark permits for ski area parking. Which, if it helped fund some OT for WSP/WSDOT to do chain patrols on Hwy2, I90, 410, etc, would be well worth the expense.

It's a tragedy that Eyman's jeremiad against taxes is going to end up adding regressive fees onto ability to utilize public resources.

We call him "chair stealer".

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

it seems we're parking out earlier and earlier down on our humble volcano too

admin is monetizing by group sales (buses), team hill rental, encouraging busing/carpooling (in the name of environmental stewardship & reducing parking hassles)

but this has the effect of increasing ridership into what seems to be a limited arena

our upper mountain doesn't even run when we're in storm mode

& we don't have the added pressure of ikonepic

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Were you around when Meadows started offering the 4x$400 season pass program in 2003(?) Crowds got way bigger after that. Pow days became like a swarm of frenzied locusts devouring the freshies in 30 minutes. Elasticity of demand and all that.

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Originally Posted by ptavv

It's only a matter of time until Washington starts doing what Oregon did and requiring SnoPark permits for ski area parking. Which, if it helped fund some OT for WSP/WSDOT to do chain patrols on Hwy2, I90, 410, etc, would be well worth the expense.

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The OR snopark permits are only required at resorts and trailheads where contractors do the maintenance. Bachelor (poorly), Hoodoo and Anthony Lakes plow their own lots so no permit required.

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Originally Posted by TBS

Anthony Lakes plow their own lots so no permit required.

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Permit required last year.

Hmmm, we didn’t pay for one when we were there on a Thrifty Thursday early March last year. Nobody said one was necessary. Same with year before that. Will be sure to check when we go this year - it’s so cheap I’m not gonna bitch about paying to park

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Originally Posted by TBS

Hmmm, we didn’t pay for one when we were there on a Thrifty Thursday early March last year. Nobody said one was necessary. Same with year before that. Will be sure to check when we go this year - it’s so cheap I’m not gonna bitch about paying to park

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https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/wall...a/?recid=51467 .
I bought mine at the ticket window where it advertised the permit as required.

D’oh. Will buy two this year...

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Originally Posted by altasnob

"The North Cascades Conservation Council was willing to accept the Ruby Mountain tram because it lay entirely inside the Ross Lake NRA. Ira Spring and James Whittaker favored other trams, demonstrating that conservationists were not of one mind regarding tramways and access. Park Service managers were concerned that once a tramway was built on Ruby Mountain, skiers would pressure the agency to develop a ski area there. Delays due to the projected high cost eventually killed the Ruby Mountain tram proposal. "

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I think it was more than anything, a pie-in-the-sky dream, voiced to gain support. But it was never going to gain financial traction.

Somewhere in their masterplan, Snoqualmie wants to build a nice restaurant on top of Hyak because people want to see the clear-cuts, I-90 and the watershed.

Attachment 311115

This is the problem right here. I'm guessing this person will head up to Crystal since they don't have any tread on their tires.

SR530/Mountain Loop Highway is underused, easy access from Puget Sound and would be an awesome access if only there were more 6k+ mountains developable from it.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

SR530/Mountain Loop Highway is underused, easy access from Puget Sound and would be an awesome access if only there were more 6k+ mountains developable from it.

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The mountains, snowpack and the roads are there... unfortunately since the forest service themselves got sued over trying to fix a fire lookout that existed well before wilderness... I doubt there's going to be any lift skiing up there. But darrington could be one hell of a ski hub with a little better access.

Tram to the top of Whitehorse please.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

if only there were more 6k+ mountains developable from it.

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If the mountain will not come to muhammad?

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Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier

Tram to the top of Whitehorse please.

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Yes!

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

If the mountain will not come to muhammad?

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Muhammad will smoke opium and dream.

Boulder River Wilderness.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Boulder River Wilderness.

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So.... what are you smoking?

Build it and they will come....until the parking lot fills up.