ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by Nic.A

I jumped on a pair of wren 88s [184], wrens 98s [189] and steeple 98s [184] at WWSRA at mission ridge last season - spring like [February] slushy snow. ME: 6'1", 190#, technique geek, beer leaguer, steep and deep lover, tourist of the PNW. Can drive 'em, pivot 'em, slarve 'em - just depends on the ski and conditions...i like turns [tight or large] and skiing fast. Boots: Head Raptor B3 RD [wrens] and Scarpa Mastrale RS [steeples].

I have limited time on the Brahma, but in comparison, the wrens are more forgiving and playful. I found the Brahma wasn't alive unless you were skiing fast, and it seemed to be better at home on piste, doing larger GS arc'd turns, at least the 187 did. Wrens, at both lengths/widths, and steeple 98, responded well whether being skied hard or gently, did well at a variety turn shapes and skiing styles [best response was 'driving' them, like the brahma]. If the dimension of the wren 88 is more appealing to you, go 184, or 189 in the 98. They don't have the speed/stability capacity of the Brahma, but they make up for that in versatility and more fun category.

I skied about 80+ pairs of skis at WWRSA, from FIS race skis to weight watchers touring skis, expert to beginner skis, all in a variety of lengths, widths, and designs. The wren 88, 98 and steeple 98 were quite impressive in the all around category. I plan on adding the 98
Steeple in the 184 to my quiver [nice compliment to my steeple 112s] as my all around winter touring ski / non pow play days at the resorts. If I could justify the $$ for an extra 5cm and choice in top sheet, i'd submit an order for a wren 98 with the tour layup and tail in a 189.

Hope this helps some.

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Yeah thanks. The 187 Brahma is totally different from the 180 and skis just like you describe. I love the 180 because it rips...hard....but it falls down when the bottom goes away or I try to ski fast out west. I ski just like you from your description.

I blew my acl last year on my original Billy Goats (not the fault of the ski but I am done with them) and don't want to ski anything 110 plus this winter so the 98 Wren is calling to me. Thanks for the input.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

People might not care too much, but I thought I'd share a story:

Not pictured in the above is an unmounted pair of backup woodgrain 191 BGs ON3P built for me last year. When they discontinued the 191, got worried the BG was going to get softer, turnier, etc. I realize now that I probably would have been fine with the current 189, and I'd actually love to try a pair with the new changes to see if hard-snow performance has improved noticeably, but at the time I was nervous.

Anyway, I asked for a woodgrain 191 exactly like my original pair but extra carbon in the tail so they'd be 20-30% stiffer for the last 30cm. In our first email exchange, he told me that they don't run carbon in less than full length strips because it isn't as durable but they have a CNC and mill all the cores in house. Awesome! They built a pair, but, before shipping them, Scott emailed me the following:



That level of custy service is just awesome!

I haven't skied them yet but the hand flex seems right on the money. Stiffer than stock by ~20-30% overall and maybe 40-50% in the tail. And the woodgrain topsheet is as gorgeous as ever. Now I just need to figure out how to ski 400 days/year for the next ten years to kill my current pair.

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Sounds money. That was my biggest gripe with the Billygoats. Too soft of a tail. I liked my Wrenegades more.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Anyone going to be at BBI with a pair of 191/189 Billys that I can stuff a 306bsl into to?? I'll have protest and 191 Lhasa Fats to trade for a run or two.

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I didn't make it last year, but I suspect I will be there with some 191 goats mounted for 306-310 with STH.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

I didn't make it last year, but I suspect I will be there with some 191 goats mounted for 306-310 with STH.

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Boom!

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Here's a thought... maybe we could arrange some sort of demo fleet for the get-together. Would ON3P we open to having a handful of skis to play with at this fine venue? Maybe even send a guy up from Portland to man the official tent and sling bamboo?

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When do you beaters do BBI again? I could arrange for something to happen if I have some notice.

February 3/4/5.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=303188

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Originally Posted by PowTron

When do you beaters do BBI again? I could arrange for something to happen if I have some notice.

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There's also the Jackson Hole version in early March...

BBI Alpental looks like it may happen...and Jackson? Maybe.

shawinggggg

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Sounds money. That was my biggest gripe with the Billygoats. Too soft of a tail. I liked my Wrenegades more.

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Remember your BGs were from the dark times. The time before the rebellion...before the current few versions of BG. Stiffer and more stout tail for sure :)

Attachment 189899
Photo by Philber Awptik from the quiver pic thread. Wren 98 on the left, K116 on the right.

That seems like an awful lot of tip rocker on a 98 underfoot "charging" ski. It's what 45 cm? Did the K116 stick with ON3P's standard 40.5 cm (IIRC?) tip & tail rocker?

How different is the rocker profile on the 88 and 108?

How come you guys stopped posting rocker lengths on the site?

The amount of rocker on the new wren series is not what I expected for a ski like that.. However, It looks like a rad ski, and a great replacement for my viciks, IF i ever get rid of them. Stiffer than the vicik, but more rocker.. I ski my vicik switch sometimes, on hard snow, and more tail rocker would drastically help in that respect, but its not my main priority for a ski like this.

To be honest, im a little sad though. I wanted a pair, as I thought the wren 98 and 108 were going to be a flat tailed beasts, as heavy, stable and damp as anything else on the market, besides a few metal skis. Unfortunately, this season they arent that, so will be going with some metal skis (Head Monster 98s & 108s, straight up missiles). I have gotten word from a few industry proffesionals that the wren 108 isnt as fast or stable as others skis in its category, but that its more fun, and like a "more stable Supernatural 108"..

Glad I picked up a 191 Wren 113, now this ski is a true beast! Makes my 186 viciks feel like soul 7s.

In the future, for me to buy a wide wrenegade, it would need to have much less rocker, and be stiffer as well as heavier.. For now though, the wren 88 has my attention, as to what could be the best bump ski ever.. the 88 looks perfect for that.

I would imagine their intent with the Wren lineup is to actually sell ski's. The amount of people that really want a straight up gun is on the low end of the spectrum. I doubt you will see "flat tailed beast" in the lienup any time soon. The last time they did that I think all of them ended up on the Clymb for barely more than material costs. Probably even less.

Completely understood, I'm just pointing out what I'm looking for in a "charging ski".. Im looking for more of a "quiver ski" when I say that, something that ONLY charges, but shines like a star when its the right conditions to do so.. Thats not the best ski for selling high quantities, for sure.

I can ski pretty darn hard on my noodley jib skis, nvm on3ps Jeffrey or Kartel series, so when I buy a "charger", it needs to astonish me for me to open my wallet. The old wren 113 did that for me, but didnt sell to normal folks. On3p's gotta do, what they've gotta do...

I see other companies starting to make limited runs of badass chargers, like the 191cm head monsters and 192 Dynastar Pro rider. I know On3p will still make custom 191 wren 113s every so often, which is amazing and I hope they keep doing this over the years.. However I do wish they made a limited run of a bigger, stiffer, but thinner, wrenegade-style ski with no tail rocker. Id have bought 1 or 2 of something like that this season..

FWIW, If i were to only have one ski this season, to use in any condition, Id hands down go wren 108. It would rock any conditions so well. Its just not that "quiver ski" I look for in a charger, a straightline missile.

I would recommend skiing the Wrens first before writing them off. Armchair QB-ing is the TGR way, but just try it :).

As for industry professionals saying it's not as stable or fast that does kind of make me scratch my head.

The only industry professionals that have skied it outside of our company were at Powder Week from my knowledge...and it won an award and was described as "insanely stable and fast".

Just sayin'. Be careful of what other companies tell you about their competitor's skis without trying them yourselves. That's something we try to avoid doing at ON3P.

Sorry if I come off cranky. It's 85 in Denver today and I want it to snow.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

From the quiver pic thread; Wren 98 on the left, K116 on the right. That seems like an awful lot of tip rocker on a 98 underfoot "charging" ski! It's what 45 cm? Did the K116 stick with ON3P's standard 40.5 cm (IIRC?) tip & tail rocker?

How different is the rocker profile on the 88 and 108?

How come you guys stopped posting rocker lengths on the site?

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We stopped posting them because they scale proportionally - so the length is different between every size. When we've posted the lengths on everything, it just lead to confusion. It seems the more info we put out, the harder it is for people to understand it. This is why we no longer publically list mounting point. We literally had shops go on our website, read that the Billy Goat in a 186cm was -9cm from center, then measure -9cm from the recommended mark and mount the skis -18cm.

Kartel 116 has different tip/tail rocker lengths, like the entire jib line. Tail rocker is now shorter.

Wren line shares the same rocker lengths.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

From the quiver pic thread; Wren 98 on the left, K116 on the right. That seems like an awful lot of tip rocker on a 98 underfoot "charging" ski!

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It doesn't seem all that extreme in person... I think I skied the 88s and I didn't notice anything too weird about them.

Good rocker pics of the 98 Wren. Honestly they look great to me. I don't want a ski that wants to just go straight. Too old for that shit.

Anyway. Drool.

Im not trying to armchair quarterback. Again im talking about what I spend my money on. I never said it wasnt a good ski, i think id love it..

What i said was its no longer one of the most stable skis on the market, like the older big wrens were. Skis like the pro rider and other big stiff beasts kind of died off from 2012-2016, and the wren held a spot. Well now that theyre back; monsters, invictus, dynastar pro riders, and others.. I dont know if a stock wren will give me the level of dampness and stability.

I was hoping for on3p to make the wren 108 able to compete with these big monster skis, that are now more refined and turn and scrub speed easier.

Basically a heavier, stiffer ski, with more carbon and a tail like the vicik or 191 wren 113.

What i was talking about, was I heard from blister gear reps, and the guy from abetterski, that the moment belafonte, head monsters, invictus, and many other skis were all more stable at stupid high speeds, than the wren is.
What was described to me, was a line supernatural 108 with more backbone.. much easier in trees, bumps, and overall more "one ski quiver" -ish..

Thats not what im looking for in a 108mm, firm crud, open bowl missile.. thats what i thought the wren was..

I have skied/owned/loved almost every model of on3p made since 2012. My fanboy status is at an obsessive level. They are my favorite brand in not only the ski industry, but in the entire sports industry. I like my on3ps better than I like my KTMs or Yamahas..

Im just giving my opinion on the new wren 108,but ill hold it in until i ski it..

If I had the money, the wren 88 would be my next ski though.

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Originally Posted by aevergreene

Im not trying to armchair quarterback. Again im talking about what I spend my money on. I never said it wasnt a good ski, i think id love it..

What i said was its no longer one of the most stable skis on the market, like the older big wrens were. Skis like the pro rider and other big stiff beasts kind of died off from 2012-2016, and the wren held a spot. Well now that theyre back; monsters, invictus, dynastar pro riders, and others.. I dont know if a stock wren will give me the level of dampness and stability.

I was hoping for on3p to make the wren 108 able to compete with these big monster skis, that are now more refined and turn and scrub speed easier.

Basically a heavier, stiffer ski, with more carbon and a tail like the vicik or 191 wren 113.

What i was talking about, was I heard from blister gear reps, and the guy from abetterski, that the moment belafonte, head monsters, invictus, and many other skis were all more stable at stupid high speeds, than the wren is.
What was described to me, was a line supernatural 108 with more backbone.. much easier in trees, bumps, and overall more "one ski quiver" -ish..

Thats not what im looking for in a 108mm, firm crud, open bowl missile.. thats what i thought the wren was..

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Oddly enough, for me, Supernatural with more of a backbone is right up my alley.

The problem for me is that I own and love the vicik for a "supernatural with a backbone".. All I'm saying is, for me to get another ski, it has to be twice that powerful, for me to justify any overlaps, my viciks are still pretty minty.

If I do the math right though, yes Quiver - Vicik = Wren 108

But Quiver + Thors Hammer =\= Wren 108

^^^ I think our next ski will now be called the "Beefmaster".

196cm, triple carbon, 40m radius sidecut, and no rocker. I actually would ski that (but you and I may be the only two people on the planet that like it).

:)

I edited that out, due to children from NS (me last year) coming over to TGR in hordes lately..

Also, I didn't want to make this thread NSFW!

Please excuse my rudeness. I don't deny On3ps engineering, keep doing what you're doing. I'm fat, but athletic, so I'm just wondering what do I do with the new wren?

If you do Make the BMaster, make it a bigger stiffer 2012 wren, with sharknose, and crazy aggressive graphics(read:dragons), 2600 grams per ski, slightly stiffer than the 2012 Wrens. 196cm is perfect.

Something to make the 194 moment belafonte and 196 governor eat turd sammies for breakfast.. but without metal, and more life than the head monster or dynastar pro rider.

I think... maybe... you just need to go out and ski. ;-)

We'll see if Squaw actually opens around November 11th... not too far away.

I know. Im just overthinking now, as well as getting anxious for the start..

Hopefully I will be on snow within 3 weeks.

Just finished trying to get caught up to speed on the whole thread (finally).

Currently looking to replace 11/12' 186 Viciks due to skiing in tight trees WAY more than I was used to. Haven't been able to track down a Vicik in 176 but that would be nice.

Otherwise, what current ski will be as close? 98 Wren?

Mind boggling how everything has evolved since the 'ol Viciks launched my quiver only a handful of years ago...

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Originally Posted by steveski

Just finished trying to get caught up to speed on the whole thread (finally).

Currently looking to replace 11/12' 186 Viciks due to skiing in tight trees WAY more than I was used to. Haven't been able to track down a Vicik in 176 but that would be nice.

Otherwise, what current ski will be as close? 98 Wren?

Mind boggling how everything has evolved since the 'ol Viciks launched my quiver only a handful of years ago...

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If you ever want to sell those viciks let me know. I so miss mine. I should have never sold them.

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Originally Posted by derivative666

If you ever want to sell those viciks let me know. I so miss mine. I should have never sold them.

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Well... they almost up for sale now. But I can't in good faith give them up without a replacement. If you find a pair of 176 let me know and my 186 are yours.

181 wren 102

http://www.bergsskishop.com/wrenegad...5578c2654.html

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Originally Posted by PowTron

^^^ I think our next ski will now be called the "Beefmaster".

196cm, triple carbon, 40m radius sidecut, and no rocker. I actually would ski that (but you and I may be the only two people on the planet that like it).

:)

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YES PLEASE! (but put in a bit of rocker)
I LOVE my 2011/2012 191 Wrens...I ski them just about every day I go skiing (except early season and big pow days) and have two pairs of em :)

The best replacement for the Vicik is the Wren 108.

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Originally Posted by PowTron

The best replacement for the Vicik is the Wren 108.

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Good to know, thanks. How similar is the tail profile from a Vicik? Looks like the closest thing currently?

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Originally Posted by aevergreene

Something to make the 194 moment belafonte and 196 governor eat turd sammies for breakfast..

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http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...891-202-sd-105

You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by PowTron

^^^ I think our next ski will now be called the "Beefmaster".

196cm, triple carbon, 40m radius sidecut, and no rocker. I actually would ski that (but you and I may be the only two people on the planet that like it).

:)

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Glad to hear you're in the top 2 strongest skiers on the planet. Meanwhile, a 194 Billygoat 120mm would be nice offering for us mere mortals. Hard to listen to marketing sizes excuses from an indy company.

^^^ marketing excuses are not what I was presenting...but sarcasm is.

^^^ You didn't, but it's been mentioned here a couple times that larger burlier sizes don't sell as well. Other companies make a big kid size, and customers here are asking for it. Pay attention son

We would gladly make you any ski that you want if you'd like to fund a mold, but they do not sell more than just a couple of pairs a season if we are lucky...and have you tried out the Cease and Desist that is made already (191, 124 waist, heavy rocker, RES like a BG)? That seems to fit in that range of what you are seeking.

It is what it is from a financial and production standpoint for us, not marketing excuses. We have always been transparent from that front.

We appreciate the feedback in any form, however.

Ill definitely buy a pair 194-196 wren AND BGs for 2017/2018 season.

This might be the only place on earth where a great company making amazing products gets accused of making "excuses" when they do the right thing from a business perspective.

Ranks right up there with "other companies do it" as a business rationale for investing in producing a product that you know won't sell (especially a company that knows it won't sell - because they've built it, and they did not come.)