the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

Yes, heel is back all the way when buckles are tight. If I loosen/ release them the heel slides forward and the problem gets much worse. I think I have enough room in the shell, something around 8-10mm front to back? Side to side is close, but side pain is gone now.
When I put the liner on even without the boot, my toes are getting smushed. Was wondering if there is any good way to stretch an intuition a bit without shaving material off.. shoe horn + heat gun? I didn't want to do something like that without checking here first.

DRZ: heat the liner with a hot hair dryer/heat gun, until the inside of the liner is warm, THen put on a broom handle and stretch it out until cool: should help

UT: ya, limited ankle flexion might be the cause. 1) Try making the boot as upright as possible. remove all F lean shims on liner and shell

2) then add heal lifts so that you open the ankle/ tibia angle as much as possible.

3) make the boot as stiff as possible. boosters, add screws to the cuff/clog etc.




at $30 an assessment, I'm just pulling in the big bucks this morning ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

the shell wdith, in the back foot, might be the issue? see if you are touching the shell in that spot. (widen the shell)

also try with different, or NO footbeds (change the footbed)

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I think you are right. The shell width in the back foot is the problem bc I noticed over the weekend that my heels constantly came up while I was skiing... What is the remedy to this problem?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using TGR Forums

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dkla52

I think you are right. The shell width in the back foot is the problem bc I noticed over the weekend that my heels constantly came up while I was skiing... What is the remedy to this problem?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using TGR Forums

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get that part of the shell widened / punched out / stretched out.

you can't flex forward much (limited range of motion) so when the boot pushes you forward, you are using up most of the range. So as you flex forward (more so on harder terrain) you are cramping up the muscles as they are over flexed in this possition. Plus you are flexed most of the time anyways again due to being to far forwards.

I'm guessing here, but try it and see. when/if I'm wrong pull all the stuff out and try again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

get that part of the shell widened / punched out / stretched out.

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Kk. I'll try to do that. Thanks a lot... Do you know of any good boot fitter in Southern California? I don't wanna take my boots to Sure Foot bc they are just bunch of sharks trying to haustle ppl. They don't know any thing about boots. All they do, regardless of whatever the problem is, is to try to concvince you to buy their customized liner. They have a shitty customer service and they really don't know what the hell they are doing or even saying. I can't believe they haustled me to but their orthotics. It simply doesn't work

Sent from my SPH-L900 using TGR Forums

I'm guessing the issue is that my boots are a bit too big and I need to (preferably) get new boots or take up room in the lower leg, but I'd like to get another opinion before going to a bootfitter.

26.5 Dynafit Titans with size 27 (recommended by Intuition) Pro Tour liners and a Booster strap (the 2nd stiffest one).

Shell fit is bigger than I'd like at 15-20mm (I didn't know much when I purchased these, but I did get them at Mammoth Mountaineering, which is a good shop). Width is fine with slight touching.

I'm 5'11", 145, with a narrow heel, pretty low arch, slightly larger than average toe box width, and extremely skinny lower legs (only about 9 inches in circumference near my ankle).

My main issue is that in order to get them tight around my lower leg, I have to buckle the top two buckles and booster strap as far as all of them go (and really torque down to get a tight feel, resulting in multiple broken buckles). Then, the muscle on my shin next to my tibia cramps horribly after about 5 minutes. I have to unbuckle my boots every lift ride and generally do so on runout/mid-run as well to relieve the pain. If I don't tighten then as much as possible, I feel like there's way too much room and I have no control.

Additionally, when the temperature gets warmer, I feel like the boots get extremely soft and even with everything buckled as tight as possible, I can feel my foot (especially my ankle) moving around and there's no control.

1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? Looser, but then I don't have any control.

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? Thinner (for circulation and space around my toes so they don't freeze).

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)? Have only used with custom Kork, but it's not my feet that hurt.

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? Standing (not in a flexed position) is best.

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) Starts immediately when I tighten down the boots.

6) BOW on the first vs the third day? Equal

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? Equal, just a function of how much I tighten the boots

8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser? Tightening the boosters all the way doesn't seem to cause a problem so long as the buckles are loose

9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions? N/A

10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last? No

skeeze: you are correct; too big


DL...52: nope, mammoth area should have someone?
http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitters-on-epicski

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

skeeze: you are correct; too big

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Thanks for confirming. Do you think some sort of tongue eliminator/well-placed high-density foam could help, or would I really just be dancing around the issue of needing new boots?

tangoing at best.

buy the right thing ONCE.

Hey Mtlion, does this look like a good boot book?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Ski-B...I1IS1SZLR1CBCD

no idea on the book?

I've done some searching and read threads (specifically Lange means cold ass boot)

Ultimately my feet freeze in anything. I had frost nip a good five years ago and am still suffering lasting effects.

Running cochise w/ power wraps and instaprints. Today was probably in the teens and my toes were numb an hour in.

Any suggestions? Trying to avoid boot gloves because I'm insecure and my tiny wiener can't handle those goofy fucking things. Also trying to avoid heaters cause they're expensive and a pain I'm the ass to charge all the time.

Does the chili powder trick actually work? Should I just stop being a pussy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowy Spartan

I've done some searching and read threads (specifically Lange means cold ass boot)

Ultimately my feet freeze in anything. I had frost nip a good five years ago and am still suffering lasting effects.

Running cochise w/ power wraps and instaprints. Today was probably in the teens and my toes were numb an hour in.

Any suggestions? Trying to avoid boot gloves because I'm insecure and my tiny wiener can't handle those goofy fucking things. Also trying to avoid heaters cause they're expensive and a pain I'm the ass to charge all the time.

Does the chili powder trick actually work? Should I just stop being a pussy?

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I recently used my new Hotronic heaters on a 2F day with 10-20mph windchill with good results. Kept my feet from freezing for the 2.5 hours I was able to deal with it. Basically the heaters replace the heat lost. If you have nerve damage from frost bite they might not help much. Maybe worth a try.

thinner socks or footbeds might allow more blood flow?

boot gloves are worth the small cock jokes, they work.

boot glove and chemical heaters are good to -20C for me , I have an aversion to anything with wires and shit CUZ ...sooner or later you have trouble

I sand all the grey material off the underneath of a sole foot bed leaving the neoprene top cover JUST under the toes so if you look at the bottom of the foot bed there is a crescent shaped sanding pattern 1'" from the end of the foot bed feathered into the rest of the foot bed which allows enough room for heater packs which are stuck to the top of the toes

Hi mtnlion, I spent a week on the TLT5s at Campbell Glacier plus some time inbounds. Didn't thermoform nor do any adjustment of shell but did get custom footbed and added Sidas boot warmers (I have Raynauds in my toes). Lots of toe room, very good heel hold, but was getting somewhat sore along the outer midfoot (was quite a bit better after 7 days but still a bit sore). The boot seems to hold pretty well even though I found the lower buckle flipped open on many occasions - in other words no buckles done up when climbing and only the top buckle when downhill. So I am wondering if it would be good to slightly widen the shell on the outside midfoot? Socks are very thin, smooth liners with ID vapour barrier socks (I can feel the VB socks but doesn't seem to be an issue even on a long all-day tour).

Second, the cable on one of the boot warmers broke on day 3/4 of climbing right at the flex point of the liners, and the other is close to breaking - any idea on how I might run the cables to prevent them breaking? p.s. the cable was taped up the back of the liner from heel to above the flex point on the liner. When flexed the liner shortens; since its taped to the liner, the cable has to bend sharply and possibly kinks with every stride. So far best idea I have is to install new elements but only tape to below the flex; I am concerned that the cable will slide too much and break the cable so it only lasts a bit longer.

Comment on previous entries: I feel the Sidas warmers on low will prevent frostbite when I lose circulation at almost any temperature (with very cold toes though). At this setting I was getting 7 hours and still had some life left in them. My toes have been quite toasty on high at -25C in the TLT5s. My hope was to only use them intermittently to prevent losing circulation thus extending their life to a few days on one set of batteries.

Third, I'm looking for a way to get a bit more warmth in the boot (even get cold heels below -10C), particularly if I am at a hut without power for a week, which is going to happen in a few weeks!!! A local fitter tried to heat form an Intuition Protour size 24 liner into my size 26 boots but they were terribly tight everywhere - he doesn't feel a size 25 would be any better since there's more foam. Sounds like the protour would be quite a bit warmer if I can get it to fit? I bought some "boot gloves" per your previous advice though I haven't tried them yet, but they don't surround the heel. I'm even considering a second pair of boots such as Mercury or Vulcan since they sound much warmer and hopefully will be a similarly good fit for my foot.

p.s. I was hoping to stop by and visit but just ran out of time. Next time.

1). Sure. But go slowly

2). Cut the bottom of the liner 5 cm from the element and run the wire around the side of the linerand up the back. Kinda of a strange line but I've seen that work too

3). Inuition liners. Boot gloves. Trips to Hawaii

I'm on my phone and can't type that well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottyb

Hey Mtlion, does this look like a good boot book?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Ski-B...I1IS1SZLR1CBCD

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^^^ The author is "skiing-in-jackson" here.

Forgive me if I'm belaboring the obvious but cold feet are usually due to poor circulation. Poor circulation can be caused by Raynaud's disease (particularly in people who have been frostbitten in the past), boots too tight-obviously, and body cold. If you feel warm all over except your feet you're still cold. When the body needs to conserve heat it shuts off blood flow to the limbs, especially the lower limbs. This conserves heat to the core and you feel warm, except your feet. Wear a warmer hat, cover your ears, add layers--you may feel too warm and it can be a fine balance but this will often help your feet, especially when you are wearing good insulation on your feet-like powerwraps.

I sweat very easily and am downright hot; hot feet but cold toes which lose circulation if I let it go. Funny thing is that sometimes if I warm my feet thoroughly and get out again my toes will stay toasty. Need to start that way.

Break-in question...

I purchased a new pair of Lange 130s in early January, from a very well respected boot fitted, that I have had great success with in the past. I have no issues going back and having work done if needed...it just takes a lot of time...both mine and his, so I wondering if I need to or not, and was looking for some guidance...anyhow...

The boots are one size smaller then my last boot, but have a good shell fit...one finger on the left foot, which is half a size bigger then my right foot. My toes touch the end of both boots when I am not leaning into them...it hurts becuase the toe nail on the outside of both of my big toes is ingrown...my fault, something I will get fixed this summer, and can deal with in the boots.

Had intuition liners molded when I bought them...wore the boots for the first time yesterday. Skiied about 3 hours. Right foot felt pretty good after a couple runs, and is only slightly sore today...mostly in the middle of the foot....running the length of my foot...probably just me getting used to the boots, maybe tensing my foot a little and not relaxing enough?

Left foot hurt so bad I could not ski any longer...entire length of my foot hurt along the middle (front to back). I don't think my left foot is much wider then my right if at all. Will the liners break in, or should I try and take the time and go back to my boot fitter to have them worked on? My left foot is pretty sore today and the muscles feel pretty worked.

I would rather not do anything to the boots if it will work out after a couple days of skiing. I have never had intuitions before, so I am not familar with the break-in process.

Thanks

intuitions break in similar to most liners. Give it one more day, and see if it feels better or worse then day 1, and if it gets better thru out the day

If it doesn't get better, go see your fitter again.

if it feels better, keep going.

if you are in golden BC, and I'm closer in banff, stop by?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

intuitions break in similar to most liners. Give it one more day, and see if it feels better or worse then day 1, and if it gets better thru out the day

If it doesn't get better, go see your fitter again.

if it feels better, keep going.

if you are in golden BC, and I'm closer in banff, stop by?

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Thanks so much for the help. It felt like the right one got better through-out the day, especially after a good sweat in them...I thought the left one was starting to feel better, then I took them off to let my feet rest, and when I put that left one back on and skiied two runs, I had a hard time walking back to the car.

I am in Golden, CO...unfortunately. I wish I could be living in BC!

I've looked through this thread, and I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm wearing technica cochise boots that were fit at footloose in Mammoth, so I'm pretty sure i'm in the right size. My big toes get really sore after a long day of skiing. I've been careful to cut my nails as short as I dare (i'm diabetic so I need to be pretty careful with my feet). I keep my lower two buckles as loose as possible (first notch and all the way unscrewed). I've got about 10 days on the stock liners.

Would getting the toes punched out a bit help? Or would the extra room mean I'm more likely to bang my toe harder into the front of the boot. I'm not super aggressive. Never go in the park, don't huck myself off cliffs, etc. The only time i really feel my toe bang is making really hard turns in steep, soft mogels.

Is your heel moving out of the heel pocket a bit? If do shim that up tighter

Or thinner sock

Or supportive footbed

Or toe punch

Or liner stretch

Tried a few different footbeds. Had some trouble getting the same heel height. Settled on blue superfeets (a little thinner with less arch, I guess). 1 day out and issue is improved and will definitely get me through the season. Thanks for the feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

SMP: (thanks for filling in all the info)

sounds like that footbed is pissing you off. Have you tried NOT skiing with any footbed? or with other footbeds?

I'm in the same boot/liner combo, and use no footbed at all, and a small 3mm wedge on the inside of my heel to correct my foot placement.

So try without a footebed and see how that feels.

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SMP: also try no footbed, and a flat footbed

you can drop off beer to my store anytime :)

Thanks. I've already got a pretty big shim on the inside of my ankle to keep my heel in place. I'm wearing thin socks and have a cork footbed, so I guess the toe punch/liner stretch is the next step.

Go with what you know. Once you find a boot that works for you, just stick with it. The flexon cult figured that out a long time ago. Sales people will try to bullshit you into buying this and that, but you are the one who has to deal with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

Break-in question...

I purchased a new pair of Lange 130s in early January, from a very well respected boot fitted, that I have had great success with in the past. I have no issues going back and having work done if needed...it just takes a lot of time...both mine and his, so I wondering if I need to or not, and was looking for some guidance...anyhow...

The boots are one size smaller then my last boot, but have a good shell fit...one finger on the left foot, which is half a size bigger then my right foot. My toes touch the end of both boots when I am not leaning into them...it hurts becuase the toe nail on the outside of both of my big toes is ingrown...my fault, something I will get fixed this summer, and can deal with in the boots.

Had intuition liners molded when I bought them...wore the boots for the first time yesterday. Skiied about 3 hours. Right foot felt pretty good after a couple runs, and is only slightly sore today...mostly in the middle of the foot....running the length of my foot...probably just me getting used to the boots, maybe tensing my foot a little and not relaxing enough?

Left foot hurt so bad I could not ski any longer...entire length of my foot hurt along the middle (front to back). I don't think my left foot is much wider then my right if at all. Will the liners break in, or should I try and take the time and go back to my boot fitter to have them worked on? My left foot is pretty sore today and the muscles feel pretty worked.

I would rather not do anything to the boots if it will work out after a couple days of skiing. I have never had intuitions before, so I am not familar with the break-in process.

Thanks

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Are you wearing the same socks you wore when they fitted the Intuitions? I was fitted with ultrathin socks, fitter thought my thin socks would be ok. First day out my feet were killing me--especially the toes. Got some ultrathins and the fit is great.

Okay, so I need to do something. My boots (Full Tilts) are killing me. I've skied 8 of the past 10 days, and I can barely stand because of the pain in my peroneous longus muscle (at least, that's where I think it is -- outside of the leg near the calf). I'm not sure if it's because I'm cranking the boots down to get the stiffness I need/what, but it's awful. I've added tongue eliminator shims and it initially helped the problem, but now it's back in full force. Boots have probably 80-100 days on them with an upgrade to the #10 tongue after the first ten days or so. I always unbuckle the middle and top buckles when I get down to the lift, and now I'm doing it whenever I don't need the stiffness (traverses, cat track, etc). Use a custom footbed, booster strap, thin socks (recently tried thick socks too, to no avail), etc. Nothing has made a difference.

Anybody else have this issue? Other than that, the boots fit quite well (just a small punch for the 5th met head on the right boot), but the forward flex could be stiffer -- sometimes I feel like they fold when I'm trying to drive my tips hard. Not looking forward to throwing down the time and cash on getting new boots to fit, but willing to do pretty much anything at this point (except stop skiing as much as possible). Thoughts? New intuition PW liners? Any specific boots I ought to try on? Heard good things about the KR2. Maybe go back to an overlap boot like the Scorpion? Langes don't fit my foot particularly well in the navicular region for whatever reason.

sounds like the FLEX is fine (10 flex + boosters = stiff) but the FIT might be off. If you do truely need a stiffer boot then this, get a 4 buckle race boot, in a 150 flex. You can also bolt the upper and lower cuff together, with Tnuts between the side cuff screws and the rear spine.

why do the buckles have to be so tight? what part of your foot/leg moves if they are looser?
100+ days is about right to look at a new liner, maybe a HV intuition, or get the exact same liner as the FT came with?
did you have this problem with the boots on the first 50 days? or just recently?
The FT is a 98mm boot, so odds are the KR2 will be too wide. I'd look at some 4 buckle 95-98mm, 150 flex boots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

sounds like the FLEX is fine (10 flex + boosters = stiff) but the FIT might be off. If you do truely need a stiffer boot then this, get a 4 buckle race boot, in a 150 flex. You can also bolt the upper and lower cuff together, with Tnuts between the side cuff screws and the rear spine.

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Well that escalated quickly. :rolleyes2 I'm not part of the dick-swinging I-ski-a-150-flex-race-boot-so-I-must-be-awesome gang. If I need a 150 flex boot than so be it, but at 5'11", 165#, I find that hard to believe. Interestingly, I had the Cochise 120 last season w/ PW liner, and I couldn't flex that boot at all -- even on the carpet. I like the progressive flex of the FT, just wish it were stiffer...which I guess I find surprising given how many people have said the #10 tongue is really stiff.

Quote:

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why do the buckles have to be so tight? what part of your foot/leg moves if they are looser?

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Two reasons: 1) there's slop between my shins/skinny calfs and the front/back of the boot. The lower fits just fine. I never touch the lower buckle, and I rarely fiddle with the middle buckle. But the upper one (and my booster strap) are constantly going back and forth between too tight and too loose/not stiff enough. And 2) the flex feels too soft when the upper buckles isn't pretty tight -- which is what I suspect is causing the pain.

Quote:

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100+ days is about right to look at a new liner, maybe a HV intuition, or get the exact same liner as the FT came with?
did you have this problem with the boots on the first 50 days? or just recently?

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I remember feeling like the boot could be stiffer last March when the temps were on the warm side (right around freezing). I had pain on the outside of my leg from the beginning whenever I cranked that top buckle down. I usually just keep them a little looser than painful and manage just fine, but now that I'm skiing a bunch, it's getting to be a chronic issue, even though I don't feel like I'm cranking the buckles any harder than usual. I'm doing the math now, and it's probably more like 60-80 days than 80-100 -- I accidentally counted touring days when adding them up last night.

I partly posted here last night after reading that one of the reviewers at Blister says he too had problems with pain in this area from FT, and I was hoping someone could shed some insight on their solution to this problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Will Brown

I’ve owned Full Tilt Konflicts, and while I loved the smoother progressive flex and rebound over a traditional 4-buckle boot, the width wasn’t enough to comfortably accommodate a prominent 6th toe (without some serious punching), and the boot’s cuff design and placement of the topmost buckle caused some serious inflammation of the peroneous longus muscle on the outside of the lower leg (a problem I’ve known others to have with Full Tilts).

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PS. Thanks for the help, mntlion!

try a 2nd power strap about the liner only, (line ski strap?) to bring it closer to your shin
is the rear spoiler in the top of the boot?
is the cuff alignment right? (move the cuff, to the side that hurts, to give it more room on that side)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

try a 2nd power strap about the liner only, (line ski strap?) to bring it closer to your shin
is the rear spoiler in the top of the boot?
is the cuff alignment right? (move the cuff, to the side that hurts, to give it more room on that side)

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Will try a 2nd power strap around the liner only. The rear spoiler is in the top of the boot. What exactly do you mean by "move the cuff to the side that hurts?"

Sounds like I just need to make an appointment with my bootfitter. Internet bootfitting only goes so far. Which I guess I knew at the beginning, but figured I'd try to get some advice anyway.

upper cuff alignment, or "canting" can be adjusted. play around with that, and see what works best for sking and painfree

Great thread, useful info throughout, thanks. JONG me sideways but a quick question, probably impossible to advise over the Internet but here goes.

Thinnish feet, moderate haglunds deformity, Cochise 130 pro, HV luxury liners. Towards the end of a 1200m skin, developed ankle pain and blister on right foot, alleviated with tape/ mole skin, reminiscent of pain which caused the haglunds (which is at 5 o'clock from straight toward toes on the roundish ankle). The hot spot was at 8 o'clock/ southwest around my ankle, 1" up from the floor.
If it were on the back of my ankle or haglunds it would be a little more normal but it really felt like it was a largely lateral pressure. Any fixes beyond an area punch? Could canting/ over pronation be putting undue pressure on the left side of my right ankle?
Thanks

Edit: largely resolved with ankle taping reducing friction here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

upper cuff alignment, or "canting" can be adjusted. play around with that, and see what works best for sking and painfree

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Yeah, figured you meant canting (sorry I wasn't obvious in my question). Time to see the bootfitter.

Thanks again for your help, dude. It always amazes me how patient you are trying to fit boots over the interwebz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Yeah, figured you meant canting (sorry I wasn't obvious in my question). Time to see the bootfitter.

Thanks again for your help, dude. It always amazes me how patient you are trying to fit boots over the interwebz.

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beer in banff is always welcome ;)