If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Summit

They are, but we hear about it less. Our media doesn't give a shit about poor brown and black children in other countries getting slaughtered, because there is no political action associated with such tragedy. Media kinda care when the biggest attack on a school in history happens, but only kinda.

Everyone remembers Columbine.

Few in the US remember Beslan.

There does seem to be VASTLY more terrorism aimed at schools outside the US. Do we see more psychopathy aimed at schools in the US? I'm not sure.

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Scroll up to those numbers, though. What makes it seem like there's VASTLY more terrorism aimed at schools outside the US? Media coverage, possibly? Certainly there are other forms of terrorism, but there's something off about complaining about media not caring and also stating that your perception actually supports the media giving such things attention--possibly even overweighting that attention.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

You make "assault weapons" Class 3. It accomplishes everything you want.

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Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Wait, what? Are you suggesting school shootings in America only get media coverage because it furthers a political agenda?

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Absolutely not.

I'm suggesting that school violence in other countries is not high on the US media's priority because it is foreign (less relatable) and not related to American agendas (less attention garnering).

Thank you for asking for clarification.

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Originally Posted by Flounder

This 1000%. As a gun owner and friends with gun nut with a full arsenal I’m well aware of modifications available easily to convert an AR to full automatic. Posters claiming those avenues don’t exist or aren’t widespread are lying.

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couldn't a gun smith do it pretty easy at my kitchen table and aren't there lots of gunsmiths in America trained by the army ?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Wait, what? Are you suggesting school shootings in America only get media coverage because it furthers a political agenda?

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Let's face it, it doesn't exactly hit as close to home with "it could've been my kid!" when it happens in Kenya or whatever. Also the chart on the previous page shows pretty well that this is by and large an American problem.

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Originally Posted by Summit

For all the "OMG Johnny can't drink at 18 but he can shoot!"

We could increase the right of voting age back from 18 to 21 in combination with making the right of firearm ownership age 21, plus throw in MJ legal at 21 too? ;)

Or maybe we would like to standardize all that, and drinking, at 19?

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As long long as they never take away the right for 50 year old men to fuck 18 year old 'woman'.

Priorities.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by dunfree

China has had dozens of school attacks in the past decade
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China
, but fewer deaths per incident because knives and hammers and cleavers are harder to kill with.

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And we've had dozens this year.

China also has 4x the population of the US.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

You make "assault weapons" Class 3. It accomplishes everything you want.

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I knew you could say something that wasn't dumb

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Originally Posted by funkendrenchman

The top Senate Republican put the blame clearly on the shooter, whom he described as a “deranged young man” and “maniac,” echoing the views of many Republicans that mental illness is the root cause of many of these recurring tragedies.

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FWIW, the biggest common denominator in mass shootings is hatred of women and a history of domestic violence. Most shooters kill a close female right before their shooting spree. Gun control aimed at individuals convicted of misdemeanor stalking, sexual assault, and domestic violence is probably one of the more effective ways to mitigate large-scale acts of violence.

source: https://www.californialawreview.org/...-path-forward/

Also armed guards won't work. They ran away in Parkland, and this shooter was actively engaged by law enforcement and still went on their rampage. If your proposal is "more cops", it's already been relatively proven to be ineffective.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

couldn't a gun smith do it pretty easy at my kitchen table and aren't there lots of gunsmiths in America trained by the army ?

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Converting a semi to an auto (illegally manufacturing and transferring a machine gun) and illegally possessing an auto carries extraordinary penalties, typically 5-10 years in prison, fines, and losing the right to ever own a gun for both the gunsmith and the owner.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

couldn't a gun smith do it pretty easy at my kitchen table and aren't there lots of gunsmiths in America trained by the army ?

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to do it at your kitchen table you’d need the full auto sear which, fir like the ar15 is a machine gun, is illegal to own unless you are properly licensed. Most of the things I’ve seen require modification in a light machine shop - the modification into full auto being illegal unless you are properly licensed. And it’s not easy to find a place to shoot one, unless you have an illegal suppressor. Sad funny watching the gun dorks who smoke weed illegally bragging about the power of background checks.

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Originally Posted by skiJ

I said it above, and I will say it again, schools are attacked Because they are the easiest targets ( churches, too ) -
the children have not done anything, they are just undefended targets.

we can Start by making schools safer - restricted access. Not prison- or 'Pentagon'- secure, but I would not be opposed to single-entry.

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No. One of the things that makes America great is that pretty much everything is soft targets. Everything is cheaper and more efficient when you live in a secure state that is not a security state. We could all live behind walls and drive armored vehicles and have checkpoints to enter secure areas. All the valuable things we leave laying around like cars on the street, copper powerlines, ATMs, etc could all be locked away. Well, some things like powerlines we'd do without, but you could have a generator.

Moving to a security state or police state is the wrong direction. There's a part of our society that wants to fear the rest of society. Fear is a plague we need to work against so everyone can have a good free life.

Since 1986, nobody is licensed to create a machine gun (new or by modification) unless you are making it for a government.

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Originally Posted by Summit

That says that 309 deaths occurred due to mass shootings between 2005 and 2017 (out of ~34 million all cause deaths) and would like to correlate that to the end of the AWB?

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The parameters of what's considered a mass shoot have been fluid. The 430 that chart depicts is way on the low end. Current general consensus is 1350ish from 2009 to 2021.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

There are about 88,000 elementary schools in America. If the proposal is armed guards to protect a single-entry point, each school needs enough trained and armed guards to face a gunman in body armor. Maybe, four? So ~350,000 guards. More than the army that occupied Iraq. Whether a person is for or against the idea, that's just what it is.

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no, Multi- and I believe I was clear about this - we are not turning schools into prisons - and the physical facility can be modified to greatly limit access.

Single entry, designed for security. the attractive entryways may have to go away.
Would I trade school Security for an attractive entry ?
Twenty years ago. And Tomorrow
( it can't be done by tomorrow. but it could be done by September )

it's Not a one-size fits all situation -
one of my nearby elementary schools has less than fifty students. Not fifty per annual class ( graduating classes often less than ten students )
Some of you have fifty times ( 50x) that many students.

Every community already has law enforcement -
Maybe school Safety becomes a priority ( many communities have law enforcement with Special training... )
I am not going to support staffing a school with fifty students with four guards. But If access is restricted, and a qualified Safety staff-er is on-site at least two hours daily, I believe the school may be/can be safer.

my idea is restricted access ; it is Not armed guards.
If you need law enforcement, call 911.


thanks. tj

you aren't suposed to kill people either

just sayin

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

The parameters of what's considered a mass shoot have been fluid. The 430 that chart depicts is way on the low end. Current general consensus is 1350ish from 2009 to 2021.

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I thot it was 1 shooter killing at least 4 people to b a mass shooting

LSL - what is your solution ?


tj

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

The parameters of what's considered a mass shoot have been fluid. The 430 that chart depicts is way on the low end. Current general consensus is 1350ish from 2009 to 2021.

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We agree "mass shooting" is a nebulous category because if you want it to seem like a huge issue you define it in a way that the numbers are large... but composed almost entirely of gang/drug related crime: some firearm policy advocates would like to tell you that there HUNDREDS of mass shootings every year, but they are counting two people shot at a convenience store robbery or 4 people shot in a gang/drug driveby while actually trying to elicit in the mind of their audience that these are all random acts of violence on the order of school shootings.

If you want to look at stats in a way seemingly related to the AWB, you choose something more related to the type of shooting that most people think of when you say "mass shooting," but then the number is in cold rational terms a tiny tiny fraction of firearm deaths. 1350 deaths over 13 years is still very small statistically speaking. But mass shootings are needless tragedy and loss hyperconcentrated and this attracts media attention in a way gang shootings do not.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Since 1986, nobody is licensed to create a machine gun (new or by modification) unless you are making it for a government.

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This is a machine gun
https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...15-machine-gun
you can find plans for it and ones like it online. Not terribly hard to make. As you said the penalties can be stiff if you do.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

I thot it was 1 shooter killing at least 4 people to b a mass shooting

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

edit: @ summit, I wasn't arguing with you. Just saw the chart, immediately suspected bs, and you were the last person talking about it.

I think we can all agree that the statistical significance when it comes to school children is irrelevant. ONE is too many. If America needs to be made great again, the first order of business should be that kids don't get shot.

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Originally Posted by dunfree

This is a machine gun
https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...15-machine-gun
you can find plans for it and ones like it online

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You are correct. That literally IS a machine gun, legally. It is pre-86 and not new.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I've never seen one of those in real life. Insanely common. I've never encountered one.


I'm not sure why blame the inanimate objects that can't change anyones brain chemistry is any more logical than blaming the meds, but hey you guys are going to do what you find emotionally gratifying.I don't think you guys give a half a shit about solving any problems. I think you just get hard at the idea of taking peoples guns away because thats how you are.

You guys just get hard at the thought of more laws less freedom, tons of cops searching schoolkids backpacks and arresting them for non dangerous offenses as a result. Two posts above me just advocated for removing all windows from the exterior of schools and placing anti tank barricades around them. Jesus fucking christ that will harm more kids than mass shooters do.


So the gun industry is great to demonize, but the pharma industry is a sacred cow. You guys just say what you find emotionally gratifying. I just don't get why the pharma industry has their dick in al your mouths.

I bet you guys don't even let your kids go trick or treating any more.

The biggest flaw in many of your ideas about guns is they just aren't going to happen. "ban everything but bolt actions" is so fucking far out there and radical all that idea is going to do is create division and have a negative effect on our country as a whole. I think thats what you get off on though. 78 people die every day from opioid overdose, but yea pharma companies cant' be criticized because when people do so I think of them as right wing conspiracy types and don't like those people so instead I'll just waaaah wahhh about my fellow citizens being able to own guns.

Personally I trust my fellow citizens more than the government. I think we should hand out an AR15 and a green card to every immigrant crossing our southern border.

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Pretty sure everyone calling for better gun control is also holding pharmaceutical companies responsible for their part in the opioid epidemic. Your bullshit post doesn’t compute. It’s also packed with hyperbole, gaslighting and personal attacks on the people that don’t agree with you. King Strawman laying it down.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Sad funny watching the gun dorks who smoke weed illegally bragging about the power of background checks.

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It's a background check not a drug test. Try and keep up.