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+100, I agree with Spyderjon's lineup this year. And, as a US-based consumer, Jon was great to work with - super easy, fast communication, very accommodating. This won't be the last pair of ATK bindings I order from him, though I do need my bank account to recover a bit first.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Question for Thom and Spyderjon: what freeride spacer is the ATK Release 10 heel piece compatible with?
Here's the description for the AL05 (from here: https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...sories/al05-2/). It mounts to the ski - not the binding, and it appears as if the maximum height from the top sheet is 20mm. Of course, I'm sure you can add a spacer for the spacer (plus longer mounting screw) within reason:Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
... ThomQuote:
This accessory, already present in the catalogue of the past season, is a micro-adjustable in thickness spacer, which can be fixed to the ski in the area under the heel of the boot, just in front of the heel part.
AL05 optimizes the transmission of the boot-ski impulses deleting the empty space between the sole of the boot and the top-sheet of the ski, as well as transfers directly to the ski the vertical jumps loads without excessively stressing the boot structure.
AL05 has being thought for the most violent RAIDERS that make-out the vertical jumps their daily lives, as well as lovers of extreme couloirs, where the only safety thing is to have the binding brazed to the boot. This accessory is equipped with an elastic slide in contact with the boot that, if properly calibrated, does not modify in any way the values of the lateral release of the binding.
AL05 must be installed directly on the ski, using the two provided screws; for this reason it can be installed in front of any ski touring binding heel part, on condition that the space between the sole of the boot and the ski in the installation area is between 14.5 mm and 20 mm.
hmm yeah - my hope was to not have to put the extra holes in the skis for the AL05 but if that's what it takes that's not the end of the world. i'll wait til i have the Release 10's in my hands and post a review on 'em - I have an older pair of freeride spacers (on Raider 12 2.0's) that I hope will do the trick, I'm just second guessing not ordering a pair from Spyderjon when I had the chance.
So I rock the Hagan Core 12 with the front brake / spacer, the front brake is a bit of a PIA.
i was thinking of swapping up to the Helio 350 since the rear mount patter is the same, and the toe is a little wider but wont interfere.
It looks like the Helio 350 is the new Core 12 Pro / Raider 12 Heel Tower Assembly and just a brakeless front of a Core 12 with a wider mount pattern ... am I right in my assumption there?
I’m impressed that the atk folks have managed to make their product lineup even more confusing this year. I’m only interested in about 20% of their bindings and I’ve still lost track of all their iterations.
Ordered FR14 from Jon. Stoked to give them a try.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
I have a Raider 12 2.0 and I like the front brake.
+1. I'm a huge fan of the front brake. It's the only brake I'd ever use.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
I'm a front brake noob and have always been curious about it. If I recall, it works in touring mode ... as in when you do a kick turn and off comes your ski :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Amirite?
... Thom
Yes it works in touring mode so if you lose a ski in tour mode it will help to stop it although with the skins on there is not much risk for the ski to go very far anyway.
You have to engage the brake every time you step in so if you're riding inbounds with a lot of gondolas, every time after you've taken a gondola you have to engage the brake again which is annoying. If you forget to engage them at the top of your run before droppin in, which WILL happen, you may fall, damage the brakes, and ruin your run.
On my Raiders 12 2.0. the brakes were hard to engage. They were light and less efficient than the new R12 brakes to stop a ski. Also some other users reported they were rubbing against the snow when carving hard, I used tight brakes (108mm for a 109mm ski) so I didn't experienced that issue myself though.
I love my FR14's and really think highly of ATK. But also what you said is spot on. They're neck and neck with DPS for the most confusing/least customer-friendly product lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by jorion
yep, but all of that is incredibly tolerable given the fact that they make the best goddamn bindings on the planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
and yes, thom, the advantage of the front brake is that if your boot is out of your ski, your brakes are always, 100% of the time deployed. very helpful when transitioning, if you're one of those types that takes your ski off. i got used to how the front brakes work very quickly, but yeah, you need to remember to stow 'em before launching or you're gonna have a bad time.
Allow me young man... lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
I do a ton of ski mountaineering and have over 100 days on these guys, while i think the binding is amazing, repeat amazing, the front brake has a few limitations as far as tech ski mountaineering is concerned.
Mind you i only use it in the BC. No resort use. Typically do flying dismounts when transitioning.
Front Brake Gripes:
- A Frame carrying skis, the brake cannot be locked down even if you dry fire the front pins. The brake gets snagged on the bag sidewalls and can be a bit of a pain to get it to settle.
- Spring skiing / corn conditions / icey conditions; i have noticed build up of it under and around the brake after skiing and transitioning to go back uphill, in that i cannot get the brake to engage down and have to remove the ski and start chipping around it.
-The top plastic housing piece has actually cracked / fallen off twice! I talked to Mike (Hagan) about this
-The brake when engaged does not tuck the brake arms
-Precarious transition stances... think the top of the Sickle where space is limited etc. After booting and making delicate / balancy moves to step in, having to make one or two more moves to engage the brake can be a little concerning
-Just having to engage it in a separate fashion lol
Again, the binding design and confidence under foot is amazing. Also the freeride spacer is a gamechanger to double up on TGapps opinion (BTW Hello dude!)
Anyone comment on my original ask about the Helios 350? (Helio 350 is the new Core 12 Pro / Raider 12 Heel Tower Assembly and just a brakeless front of a Core 12 with a wider mount pattern ... am I right in my assumption there?)
This. This is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
(although I also have a pair of MTN's and can't say a single bad thing about them)
^^ super good feedback, i think those are all valid points.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
- i've definitely experienced annoyance when carrying skis a-frame, but most of the time i carry diagonal because of shitty airbag limitations.
- i've never had them ice or build up in spring conditions, but i can see exactly how they would. i also run a B&D shim that keeps them up above the ski enough such that ice buildup/brakes catching has never been an issue for me
- the plastic jobber breaking makes total sense, i've always felt like that was a potential weakpoint in an otherwise strong design
honestly though, i think the way they step in during hard transitions is a strength, not a weakness. i know you gotta do one more clicky thing to get them to hide, but i also like being able to drop them from my pack and have brakes out no matter what.
also what are flying dismounts?? is that a way of getting extra points in strava?? :rolleyes2
Definitely looks like the R12 heel, but it appears to be the toe from their race bindings, which actually has a smaller mount pattern than the R12 toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
^^ oh shit i forgot, i asked a friend at BD your question D-roc and I'll lyk what I find out
The 350 toe is from the Trofeo, so same as on Helio 145/180/200.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
The race toe (Helio 110, Hagan Ultra) has a slimmer lever, plus a little bit of trimming down in other places too.
(I had to compare some of mine side-by-side to notice the latter.)
Ah, good clarification, thanks. I didn't realize the 110 toe was different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
hahaha. meaning never taking your skis off to transition. just rip, turn, step, go....Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Yeah I adore my Hagar core 12s. So much so that when I had to remount a pair of skis for small bsl I decided to replace the ions with atks, but had to pay close attention to not interfere with existing holes plus satisfy the annoying v werks mounting pattern requirements. After much playing with templates I reached the conclusion that the r12 would be perfect, but then I didn’t buy because of pandemic work uncertainty and now things are different again. Seems like the new raider 12 will work, so I think the new Hagan whatever will work, but I really hate spending mental energy on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
I'd say the biggest pro of a Front Break binding is it would be way better for removing the break and still having the freeride spacer. When you remove the brake on the FR14 and keep the spacer you are left with a big empty snow catching hole in the middle and I broke off one side of my Freeride spacer.
Ha! Ditto. Doesn't help that the English is written by ESL folks. Great bindings so worth the slight inconveniences. And the broad lineups mean you can find something to fit a very specific need.Quote:
Originally Posted by jorion
No argument about that.
Better than the spreadsheet I posted in post #1 above, scroll up and download the 20/21 catalog that @spyderjon posted and stop asking to be spoon fed ;-)
If you don't know the history of the Raiders they've actually simplified things slightly - naming the Freeraider 14 the Front 14, 'coz you know ... the brake is in the front.
Trofeo means trophy as in winning a (skimo) race.
Mapping Hagan's and BD's mashups to ATK ... now therein lies the fun.
... Thom
so heres a nerd question on my end. Toe clamping pressure....
So the Hagan core has the dual spring front, the the trofeo has the monolink front. Which has more clamping force? or what is the clamping force?
I remember reading that the Core 12 was like 13 / 14 kg? Any idea of what hte mono link is?