The 300g Touring Binding Thread

Yeah, the weight budget is always going to favor the binding vs. the brakes. I think it's the correct design decision. I'd rather have a crappy brake than a binding that explodes. We don't need more threads like those about the Kingpins ;-)

The Ion toes are indeed confidence inspiring, as are my Vipec Blacks & Plum Guides.

The only toe I've skied on that gave me the willies were my Comforts, and I can't dismiss the possibility of user error - not cleaning the boot fitting.

I learned my lesson the hard way (but with no consequences), and since then, religiously rotate my boot 8-10 times to clean out the boot sockets before stomping in.

Your comments about the Freeraider toes are surprising, in light of the hard chargers who seem to like them. Are you sure you're not wishing for a 300g Shift? It'll be a while.

... Thom

Long light strides for pow.... I've been biking lift served 7 days in a row... first moment I've thought fondly about winter's return

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Your comments about the Freeraider toes are surprising, in light of the hard chargers who seem to like them. Are you sure you're not wishing for a 300g Shift? It'll be a while.

... Thom

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But I think I've said nothing bad about Freerider toes? They are just less beefy, click-in is less powerfull, which brings me to idea that springs are also softer (I could be completely wrong) and that is the reason why I said they are less confidence inspiring, that's all

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Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk

But I think I've said nothing bad about Freerider toes? They are just less beefy, click-in is less powerfull, which brings me to idea that springs are also softer (I could be completely wrong) and that is the reason why I said they are less confidence inspiring, that's all

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Sounded as if you were sketched out, skiing them.

Maybe try torquing out of them on the bench (toes unlocked, heels in touring mode) and comparing against how stiff your Ion toes springs feel?

A hillbilly version of Lou's "ghetto setup": https://www.wildsnow.com/16117/g3-io...tech-bindings/

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

The only toe I've skied on that gave me the willies were my Comforts, and I can't dismiss the possibility of user error

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I've prereleased from OG Dynafit Speeds, Comforts and Verticals. I was careful enough, and it happened enough, that I CAN dismiss user error.

I've never had the issue with Plum Guides, Speed Radicals, Plum Race or Speed Superlite 2.0's. No change in how I use them. Guides and Superlites, in particular, I've found to have excellent retention. I personally don't think you can blame lateral prerelease only on the toes. Older Dynafits had more lateral play in the heels and I think this played a role in forcing open the toes, which, of course, have fairly light springs.

My point is, while I once coveted stiffer toe springs, I no longer focus on the toes alone, but total binding performance.

I had the g3 ions, skied on them about 100 days, on vwerks Katanas.
They developed a nasty play in the toes, where the toes would move side to side, about 5-10 degrees

Caused problem skinning.

Also a couple of releases when i hit small rocks, that didn't feel like the binding should release.

The toe springs also got progressively weaker.

Switched to Salomon mtn, and I'm happy with them.

Lighter, bomber and better retention.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

I've prereleased from OG Dynafit Speeds, Comforts and Verticals. I was careful enough, and it happened enough, that I CAN dismiss user error.

I've never had the issue with Plum Guides, Speed Radicals, Plum Race or Speed Superlite 2.0's. No change in how I use them. Guides and Superlites, in particular, I've found to have excellent retention. I personally don't think you can blame lateral prerelease only on the toes. Older Dynafits had more lateral play in the heels and I think this played a role in forcing open the toes, which, of course, have fairly light springs.

My point is, while I once coveted stiffer toe springs, I no longer focus on the toes alone, but total binding performance.

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Another thing I forgot to mention is the mount. We shouldn't overlook heel alignment and its influence on toe retention.

One of my biggest bitches is the fact that (in my experience), only Fritchi counterbores their toe holes.

Every else countersinks them which draws the toe piece back toward the center of the drilled holes.

... Thom

So ... anyone play with the Kreuzspitz GTs? 3 years in production ought to be enough time to shake out the bugs?

The new toe design of the ATKs ultimately drove me to the Plums. I wanted to give ATK another year on the market.

Even though the Guides come in at 682 grams/pair, they check all of the other boxes (adjustable lateral & vertical release is non-negotiable for me).

I'm not a fan of paying to be a beta tester ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk

But I think I've said nothing bad about Freerider toes? They are just less beefy, click-in is less powerfull, which brings me to idea that springs are also softer (I could be completely wrong) and that is the reason why I said they are less confidence inspiring, that's all

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I've had first gen ion's for 3 seasons and now atk freerider 14 2.0 for two seasons. Around 70 days per season. Never had any prerealese problems with either. Atk's have developed some play on heel towers, not bad yet. Going to ski them at least one more season. I'm 105kg and ski some what fast in mostly shitty snow, so they have seen some torque and stress.

Lähetetty minun FIG-LX1 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

I preordered xenics

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Originally Posted by margotron

I preordered xenics

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There I go ... pondering violating my operating principle of not being a paying beta tester.

[edit] If this fellow (link, below) is right, the single position riser is a touch higher than many medium risers, at 64mm above the ski. I think I could live with that, but the unknown at the moment is the toe pin height above the ski (in order to do an apples to apples comparison of the delta).

https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/fr...10-test-report

In case the following is useful, here's skimo's compiled list of riser heights and riser deltas. Note that when I measure my Plum Guides, I get the same heights (within .5mm) but my delta numbers vary considerably. I'm not sure they're measuring the way they say they are. Anyhow, this link might inform your thinking:

https://skimo.co/binding-riser-heights

... Thom

User guide for ATK Crest says only for skis up to 100mm wide. Seems like this is super conservative but your thoughts? Thinking about putting it on my 96mm Camox Freebirds with inserts and then doing multi-binding inserts on some Anima Freebirds or BentChet120 for deep BC days only. Am I asking for trouble going wider with this binding?

Also considering the Xenic and that has no stated width limitations. Thoughts on choosing between these? Currently have ION LT12 (never skied them yet) and Dynafit Rad ST.

ETA: I’m an idiot. The new Crest 10 comes with brakes up to 120mm so obviously they’re confident in them handling wide skis. The old one was limited to brakes of 97mm. Appears no difference other than brakes

So l was really big on the Crests, and when it came time to pull the trigger last Spring, I went with tried and true Plum Guides.

What sketched me out was ATK's new monolink toe design, initially because it was a first year design - albeit from a company with a good track record.

Staring at the monolink toe over the past few weeks, I have more doubts and I have absolutely NO IDEA if they're well founded.

My thinking is that toe pieces experience shocks and that a spring on the wing serves to mitigate those shocks. So, will the fixed wing suffer metal fatigue over time?

I realize that these are touring bindings and won't suffer the abuse of an alpine binding, but this looks like an unnecessary introduction of a weak point for no reason other than to save a few grams.

I'm probably making too much out of this, but I can't get it out of my head.

... Thom

Monolink may help prevent pre-releases, if placed on the inside. That side doesn’t move right?

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Monolink may help prevent pre-releases, if placed on the inside. That side doesn’t move right?

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Yeah, it seems as if it would work like Dynafit Power Towers. I'm not sure if the toes are mirror imaged however.

[edit]@Summit is the only one I'm aware of on this thread who has ATKs with monolink toes (Crests), so he might report on this (mirror image).[/edit]

They use 7075 alloy which his good stuff, so maybe my fears of a stress crack are totally unfounded.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Yeah, it seems as if it would work like Dynafit Power Towers. I'm not sure if the toes are mirror imaged however.

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Different than power towers. They literally don’t move when whacked hard on one side as far as I know.

Should be mirror imaged. The ones I’m specifically familiar with and talking about are on these:
https://www.atkbindings.com/it/prodo...p-vertical-it/

The rolling heel pins are new this year and a really cool innovation.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

The rolling heel pins are new this year and a really cool innovation.

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Agree.
They have a really nice range of bindings.

Both pin arms rotate/move. Bindings are going on gf’s wildcat tour 108s. Why would you sell a binding with a 120mm brake option and then print that they are only for skis 97mm and under in your manual? Probably just worried about retention, the mount pattern on both the toe and heel are not the widest. I think it’s okay.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3659ec74ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e31cde0e56.jpg


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Originally Posted by SkiersLeft

Both pin arms rotate/move. Bindings are going on gf’s wildcat tour 108s. Why would you sell a binding with a 120mm brake option and then print that they are only for skis 97mm and under in your manual? Probably just worried about retention, the mount pattern on both the toe and heel are not the widest. I think it’s okay.

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Keep us posted. I am going back to ATK or trying Salomon MTN this season.

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Originally Posted by SkiersLeft

Both pin arms rotate/move. Bindings are going on gf’s wildcat tour 108s. Why would you sell a binding with a 120mm brake option and then print that they are only for skis 97mm and under in your manual? Probably just worried about retention, the mount pattern on both the toe and heel are not the widest. I think it’s okay.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3659ec74ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e31cde0e56.jpg


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This raises my confidence level (given that my concerns were likely unfounded in the first place :rolleyes:).

... Thom

Thinking about mounting Salomon MTNs on a pair of Lotus 138 hybrids. I don't have access to a spec that would say whether or not it can handle the stress of turning (and kick turning) a ski that wide. Is this a foolish endeavor?

I do have a set of Dynafits that were pretty much made for this ski, but since it's the 2600g Hybrid, it would be nice to be able to shave off the 350g per leg.

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Originally Posted by SkiersLeft

Both pin arms rotate/move.

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Thanks a ton for the photos- I wasn't sure from the stock photos where the pivot point was- I'm glad it's dead center, it initially looked to be offset to me. Removing the extra springs actually reduces the number of moving parts which could, in theory, make the binding less prone to failure. I'm pretty sold on these bindings. Also the red matches my red skis and should get me at least a little more speed up and down the hill.

I think last years' (first gen) version Crest Race was only offered up to 97mm (that's the user manual I was reading), but the new Crest 10 (same other than name and brake sizes) appears to have opened up to new widths.

I have been looking hard at the Xenics as well but the horizontal toe release really weirds me out. I'd rather stick with the tried and true toe geometry, as I've never experienced toe prerelease (I'm not hucking cliffs or skiing Mach 20 down ice with tech binders like you fucking maniacs).

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Originally Posted by Falcon3

Thanks a ton for the photos- I wasn't sure from the stock photos where the pivot point was- I'm glad it's dead center, it initially looked to be offset to me. Removing the extra springs actually reduces the number of moving parts which could, in theory, make the binding less prone to failure. I'm pretty sold on these bindings. Also the red matches my red skis and should get me at least a little more speed up and down the hill.

I think last years' (first gen) version Crest Race was only offered up to 97mm (that's the user manual I was reading), but the new Crest 10 (same other than name and brake sizes) appears to have opened up to new widths.

I have been looking hard at the Xenics as well but the horizontal toe release really weirds me out. I'd rather stick with the tried and true toe geometry, as I've never experienced toe prerelease (I'm not hucking cliffs or skiing Mach 20 down ice with tech binders like you fucking maniacs).

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Funny, my initial reaction to the monolink toe was also positive (fewer parts). Then, I went into my "special place" and FUD crept in. We're good now ;-)

In case you missed it, the Xenic doesn't release at the toe. There is some sort of horizontal carriage, however. Yeah, it's an unproven design. If anyone can get it right on the first try, it's Fritschi.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by lucknau

Thinking about mounting Salomon MTNs on a pair of Lotus 138 hybrids. I don't have access to a spec that would say whether or not it can handle the stress of turning (and kick turning) a ski that wide. Is this a foolish endeavor?

I do have a set of Dynafits that were pretty much made for this ski, but since it's the 2600g Hybrid, it would be nice to be able to shave off the 350g per leg.

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The mtn are very solid.
I have them on my 112 skis with absolutely no problems.

I would epoxy the toe piece screws.

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I love my MTN's aside from the crampon clip business, but looking at ATK stuff has me very impressed. Build quality looks tremendous, and 5-10 RV in a package under 300 grams blows my mind. Full metal toe lever also, unlike MTN. It's a good time to be alive and touring.

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