Electric Bike Thread

Nice! I dont need that kind of speed but i could see wanting that for commuting. I rarely get over 10mph unless im heading to the trail on the road.
Found a couple gems the last 2 days just exploring. One zone i didnt know about yesterday has some fun stuff built. I just kept going and going. Just barely got home at dark well into my last bar on the battery. So fun.
Yesterday when exploring a trail that didnt pan out so went to look if a fave dh frack had cleared of snow. Ended ip finding a climb trail to it that is going to be as fun or almost as fun as the dh track and no riders use the up either way. Going to rain today and ive ridden the ladt 5 days but im itching to get back there. I ran out of light to really put a good circuit with extension in. Awesome trail. Tech climb that i think i can clean with a couple tries and a semi steep dh(too steep to climb). Regular access is well buried in snow for a while. Should have this one to my self for a while. Pretty psyched

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Originally Posted by grinch

Nice! I dont need that kind of speed but i could see wanting that for commuting. I rarely get over 10mph unless im heading to the trail on the road.
Found a couple gems the last 2 days just exploring. One zone i didnt know about yesterday has some fun stuff built. I just kept going and going. Just barely got home at dark well into my last bar on the battery. So fun.
Yesterday when exploring a trail that didnt pan out so went to look if a fave dh frack had cleared of snow. Ended ip finding a climb trail to it that is going to be as fun or almost as fun as the dh track and no riders use the up either way. Going to rain today and ive ridden the ladt 5 days but im itching to get back there. I ran out of light to really put a good circuit with extension in. Awesome trail. Tech climb that i think i can clean with a couple tries and a semi steep dh(too steep to climb). Regular access is well buried in snow for a while. Should have this one to my self for a while. Pretty psyched

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True, I don’t really need 28mph either but hitting 22-23mph really is the sweet spot on the road IMO.


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Mine starts to lose power just over 19mph. Supposed to go.to 19.9 but id say about 19.5 it starts to lose a bit. Just over 31kph when its supposed to be 32. I generally dont use that power on the road unless on the way home trying to beat the nightfall. Going to the trail ill conserve battery for the dirt and warm up the legs in eco.
In other news i ordered a water bottle and cage for my yt decoy. Cramped space on the bike so it has a custom cage and bottle from fidlock. $83 water bottle.after shipping. Fkn L!! 475ml . Im expecting it to arrive full of scotch

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Mine starts to fade at 18 and gives out just under 20. It also shuts down after a few seconds of maxed out torque. That SUCKS when you're making a tech move and it shuts off! It usually ends up with me on the ground, often tumbling ass under teakettle backwards with a 50 pound brick pile driving the back of my head into the ground.

After a couple of big creek crossing the other day my motor is louder than it used to be. Is the Steps 8000 not supposed to get that wet?

Wow, cutting out is no good. Shimano can check it out online with etube. Most shops can link up with shimano to diagnose. Shouldnt go under water or use a hose on them. I think theyre rated against dust and rain. You cant replace the bearing but maybe you can pop the seal and repack some grease in it. Obviously youre still under warrantee but the new motor should be out later this year. Id repack it if i could and try and milk it in with the hopes of upgrading. Maybe the new motor isnt even worth it but rumour has it as same mounting pattern and i wouldnt be surprised if there is durability improvements, not that yhe current one is bad. Mine doesnt cut out and no way i would keep that as is. Not sure if its standard or if its a yt thing but mine has some moto foam where the drain hole is on the underside so mud doesnt get in and water drains. Norco will just send you to shimano but theyve been on it . Quick diagnosis and replacement if needed. Good luck. Hope you get it sorted fast. Let us know how it goes

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Argggh these dirt mopeds sound like a lot of hassle.

Interesting to hear these reports from the front lines though.

Are any motor developers working on integrating a gearbox?

Sadly theres still growing pains. Decent warrantees on the motors though. LBS is probably the way to go. And as ive said previously the new bosch gen 4 motor is bombproof(apart from the very few that have slipped past quality control) , they apparently use the battery quite efficient, hzve good batteries and 625w availability. Theyre light now too plus they still have their 2 yr warrantee and further 2 yrs on the replacement. Fall close to the top for low noise and mid pack for tourque. Durability being key. Eyeing up a few nice models with that bosch cx gen 4. Latest ive seen is someone long stroked and mulletized their trek rail 7. Base model to upgrade the fork to 170 and coil 230x60(in place of 57.5) to give it 156mm travel. Sweet looking bike. Cube hybrid 160 is a great deal. Orbea is nice. Haibike has a nice bosch gen4 bike. Whyte e180 is very nice. Theyre sold in the US. Theyre sweet and the company has a good reputation. Surprised we havent seen gearboxes. Theres a lot of talk of them from embn and other online people. Nicolai will make a custom geo bike with the bosch cx and one option has a gates belt drive with a rohloff e-14 hub(14 spd internally geared). Hub is super durable but it weighs a ton on the suspension. Nicolai would be my bet to have a gearbox first. Sooo many companies are right on the cusp its bound to happen real soon.
Ive been saying high single pivot bike with a jack shaft to an internally geated hub within the pivot is needed. Jack shaft is one small chain from the crank/chain ring to a cog on the internally geared hub within the pivot and another chain from a cog at the other side of the hub/pivot to a cog at the rear wheel. Weight is centeralized and no chain growth and low weight at the rear wheel hub/suspension with no casette, freehub(freehub is at the internally geared hub within the high single pivot) and no derailleur. Maybe even the enviolo cvt hub within the pivot. Continuous varible transmission. Can shift under load as theres no gears . All the tech is there. Someone just needs to build it

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Originally Posted by frorider

Argggh these dirt mopeds sound like a lot of hassle.

Interesting to hear these reports from the front lines though.

Are any motor developers working on integrating a gearbox?

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Originally Posted by grinch

Sadly theres still growing pains. Decent warrantees on the motors though. LBS is probably the way to go. And as ive said previously the new bosch gen 4 motor is bombproof(apart from the very few that have slipped past quality control) , they apparently use the battery quite efficient, hzve good batteries and 625w availability. Theyre light now too plus they still have their 2 yr warrantee and further 2 yrs on the replacement. Fall close to the top for low noise and mid pack for tourque. Durability being key. Eyeing up a few nice models with that bosch cx gen 4. Latest ive seen is someone long stroked and mulletized their trek rail 7. Base model to upgrade the fork to 170 and coil 230x60(in place of 57.5) to give it 156mm travel. Sweet looking bike. Cube hybrid 160 is a great deal. Orbea is nice. Haibike has a nice bosch gen4 bike. Whyte e180 is very nice. Theyre sold in the US. Theyre sweet and the company has a good reputation. Surprised we havent seen gearboxes. Theres a lot of talk of them from embn and other online people. Nicolai will make a custom geo bike with the bosch cx and one option has a gates belt drive with a rohloff e-14 hub(14 spd internally geared). Hub is super durable but it weighs a ton on the suspension. Nicolai would be my bet to have a gearbox first. Sooo many companies are right on the cusp its bound to happen real soon.
Ive been saying high single pivot bike with a jack shaft to an internally geated hub within the pivot is needed. Jack shaft is one small chain from the crank/chain ring to a cog on the internally geared hub within the pivot and another chain from a cog at the other side of the hub/pivot to a cog at the rear wheel. Weight is centeralized and no chain growth and low weight at the rear wheel hub/suspension with no casette, freehub(freehub is at the internally geared hub within the high single pivot) and no derailleur. Maybe even the enviolo cvt hub within the pivot. Continuous varible transmission. Can shift under load as theres no gears . All the tech is there. Someone just needs to build it

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Funny timing so ill link this

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/from-the...its-niche.html

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I hope the rest of the moto trails are like today. Tech singletracks climbs and downs but doable. Mostly boost modeAttachment 329596Attachment 329597

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What’s the consensus on make/models for an urban Ebike? I’ll probably buy one for the wife in the next few months. Just a bopping around town bike, not a Ute or a fast commuter. Mileage would be low. Priorities would be low step over, on the cheap side, and the color white...

Looking at the Spec Como and similar offerings from the big brands.

I’ve looked at a few of the eBike specific brands like Rad, they are definitely cheaper than the traditional bike brands but I am concerned with component selection and overall quality... Am I overthinking this?


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Originally Posted by nickwm21

What’s the consensus on make/models for an urban Ebike? I’ll probably buy one for the wife in the next few months. Just a bopping around town bike, not a Ute or a fast commuter. Mileage would be low. Priorities would be low step over, on the cheap side, and the color white...

Looking at the Spec Como and similar offerings from the big brands.

I’ve looked at a few of the eBike specific brands like Rad, they are definitely cheaper than the traditional bike brands but I am concerned with component selection and overall quality... Am I overthinking this?


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You're overthinking it. Get a Specialized Turbo bike. Get one with front suspension. Get one that goes 28mph (Class 3) so that you can cruise at 22mph easy - a Class 1 bike will only hit 18 or so easily. 22mph is the sweet spot.

By the way, I stumbled into a 15% off Spesh coupon that expires May 31st. It works on bikes. If you're going to get Spesh hit me up and I can send you it. I wanted a Diverge, but they're all sold out so I'm not gonna use the coupon.

Bottom line:
1. Mid-drive required for any kind of hills.
2. Class 3 is the way to go for a fast commuter.
3. Suspension is essential at those speeds on roads.

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Originally Posted by thejongiest

Bottom line:
1. Mid-drive required for any kind of hills.
2. Class 3 is the way to go for a fast commuter.
3. Suspension is essential at those speeds on roads.

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1. Agreed, mid drives are much nicer.

2. Class 3 is only legal on roads. Not on multi use bike paths.

3. Agreed, much more utility.

I'm kinda stoked so:

I work in an E Bike store. Last year this 80 year old guy comes in and is pretty chatty & interesting. Over the summer he came by pretty regularly. He would show up on a different ebike every time, OK not every time but he a few of them. By the end of the summer I sold him 2 bikes, a BH Atom with a Brose drive & a Bulls somthing or other with a Yamaha drive, Both really nice full suspension serious mountain bikes, hew wanted them to smooth out the potholes, he knew they were way overkill but didn't care. He also bought a Wattwagon online. Fast forward to Friday last, he came in and said he was going to get rid of his Wattwagon and asked if I wanted to buy it. Knowing that he paid $8000ish CAD for it and list is now $6800USD I thought, "Ya right, not likely." He offered it to me for $2000CAD so what could I do but buy it.

The bike has a titanium frame, Bafang Ultra drive, 52v 880Wh battery, Rohloff 14 speed hub, Gates carbon drive belt, Magura 4 piston brakes, Hope front hub, Crank Bros pedals..... High end everything. The Rohloff is worth more than I paid for the bike. I took it out for a rip and managed 63kph on the flat and got it up to 80kph on the hill nearby. https://wattwagons.com/pages/specifications

Attachment 330289

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Originally Posted by Beaver

I'm kinda stoked so:

I work in an E Bike store. Last year this 80 year old guy comes in and is pretty chatty & interesting. Over the summer he came by pretty regularly. He would show up on a different ebike every time, OK not every time but he a few of them. By the end of the summer I sold him 2 bikes, a BH Atom with a Brose drive & a Bulls somthing or other with a Yamaha drive, Both really nice full suspension serious mountain bikes, hew wanted them to smooth out the potholes, he knew they were way overkill but didn't care. He also bought a Wattwagon online. Fast forward to Friday last, he came in and said he was going to get rid of his Wattwagon and asked if I wanted to buy it. Knowing that he paid $8000ish CAD for it and list is now $6800USD I thought, "Ya right, not likely." He offered it to me for $2000CAD so what could I do but buy it.

The bike has a titanium frame, Bafang Ultra drive, 52v 880Wh battery, Rohloff 14 speed hub, Gates carbon drive belt, Magura 4 piston brakes, Hope front hub, Crank Bros pedals..... High end everything. The Rohloff is worth more than I paid for the bike. I took it out for a rip and managed 63kph on the flat and got it up to 80kph on the hill nearby. https://wattwagons.com/pages/specifications

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Holy cow.. what a deal

Beautiful bike. That company knows how to build and spec a bike. Amazing details. That should last forever. Definitely a keeper

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

What’s the consensus on make/models for an urban Ebike? I’ll probably buy one for the wife in the next few months. Just a bopping around town bike, not a Ute or a fast commuter. Mileage would be low. Priorities would be low step over, on the cheap side, and the color white...

Looking at the Spec Como and similar offerings from the big brands.

I’ve looked at a few of the eBike specific brands like Rad, they are definitely cheaper than the traditional bike brands but I am concerned with component selection and overall quality... Am I overthinking this?


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Last year I test rode most of them and liked the Spesh Vado best for a commuting bike, until I rode the Orbea Gain. I almost pulled the trigger on it but my situation changed and I work remotely from Tahoe now.

The Orbea is a road bike though, with a non-relaxed riding position. The reason I liked it is that it is super light and rides like a normal bike, but with the motor you get all the power you need to climb like a pro. It's also super stealthy if that is a factor for you. You have to look at the rear hub to tell that it's an e-bike.

For road riding, I didn't see any problem with a hub-drive, but it does have a slightly different engagement feeling that some may not like.

If you get a Vado, do yourself a HUGE favor and get the 28mph version. The class 1 version reaches the cutoff before you know it and you will forever be bumping up against it on the open road. 19mph is too slow on flats with a tail wind. I can pedal unassisted on the Orbea at over 20mph easily.

No, class 3's are not allowed on MUP's and I can't advise you there, but I can tell you that you will get passed by people on class 2 throttle bikes not even pedalling that are basically motorcycles going super fast. There is no enforcement of any kind on the MUP's I was riding (Bay Area), other than the cops dealing with homeless encampments.

I wouldn't look at any of the cheaper brand like Rad. Those things are so heavy I don't think you could easily carry it anywhere. Try lifting 70 lbs onto a roof rack.

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

What’s the consensus on make/models for an urban Ebike? I’ll probably buy one for the wife in the next few months. Just a bopping around town bike, not a Ute or a fast commuter. Mileage would be low. Priorities would be low step over, on the cheap side, and the color white...

Looking at the Spec Como and similar offerings from the big brands.

I’ve looked at a few of the eBike specific brands like Rad, they are definitely cheaper than the traditional bike brands but I am concerned with component selection and overall quality... Am I overthinking this?


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I sell and fix E Bikes. Rad Bikes are trash. I see lots with basic issues like crooked brake mounts or drop outs welded crooked. Parts spec is as cheap as they can go.

You need to figure out what the rider needs and will work for them. If they're an avid cyclist a mid drive would probably work really well for them. If they are someone who rides a bike sometimes a hub motor can out perform a poorly ridden mid drive. You've got to pay attention to your gears on a mid drive, hub motor not really. If you have a long steep hill to climb a hub is not ideal. Hubs motor bikes don't like to go slow under heavy load, a mid drive can crawl up a wall all day if ridden right.

If you live in a dead flat area and the rider is <150lb a 350watt hub motor will work fine, otherwise go with 500W or if legal in your state 750W. For stop start around town riding a rule of thumb is 10Wh of battery per kM. I typically get 50km out of a 5 year old 10.4Ah 48v battery which is right about 10wh/km. Obviously that can be way out to lunch depending on the rider, I can get 20wh/km or 5wh/km on the same commute. If your laws are 500w max get a 750 that is tuned down to 500w if you still want all the torque of a 750 but want to stay legal.

Make sure you get hydraulic brakes, cheap bikes have cable disc brakes. They work but, meh.

One of my favorite hub motors is the Das Kit 500W it is sold on Magnum bikes. They're a little more expensive than a Rad but they're not a Rad and they have more jam than a Bafang 500W.

Bafang dominate the hub motor world, they're bomb proof so don't worry about that. They also make high powered mid drives that rip. One of their best is the BBS02 or the BBSHD, the Ultra is OK but heavy.

The big brands mostly have high end mid drives from Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha... They're all really nice to ride and get great fuel economy, they have tiny motors and tiny batteries relative to hub motor bikes. The guys selling them generally don't know what they're selling and may tell you it has a 400w motor because that is what is has printed on the battery. The reality is all the high end mid drives are 250W motors developed to be legal in the European market.

High end mid drives have torque sensors vs the cadence sensors on most hub motor bikes. They ride very different. Test ride some of each.

Go to an e bike shop and test ride some. Generally if you go to a conventional bike shop they'll only have mid drives by Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, Brosse.... and no hub motors. If someone tells you hub motors are no good leave their store because they don't know WTF they're talking about.

One thing not mentioned above is that 250W is the NOMINAL power. Yamaha, Brose, Bosch all put out close to 600W at peak power. They are powerful.

I want a bike for long spring ski approaches on uphill logging roads and trails when spring/summer gates are still closed. Also for really long climbing approaches into the summer and fall. Distance is between 5-10 miles one way. On the cheaper side- recommendations?

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Originally Posted by Idyllwild

I want a bike for long spring ski approaches on uphill logging roads and trails when spring/summer gates are still closed. Also for really long climbing approaches into the summer and fall. Distance is between 5-10 miles one way. On the cheaper side- recommendations?

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Giant Stance is about the cheapest decent bike out there. You may have trouble finding one currently though. Grinch may have better suggestions because he follows current trends more. Bolt-on motor is another option if you already have a bike.

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Originally Posted by skysos

Giant Stance is about the cheapest decent bike out there. You may have trouble finding one currently though. Grinch may have better suggestions because he follows current trends more. Bolt-on motor is another option if you already have a bike.

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I'll defer to beaver on that. Im sure he'd have a good suggestion and options. Ive been saying commencals old stock sale but theyve sold most of them. Stock is getting low. I know any of the midedrives with a 500w battery will cover that distance no problem. Im guessing a hardtail with + size tires would fit the bill. That could float across the occasional snow patch and not be too heavy for the occasional push

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Originally Posted by Beaver

I sell and fix E Bikes. Rad Bikes are trash. I see lots with basic issues like crooked brake mounts or drop outs welded crooked. Parts spec is as cheap as they can go.

You need to figure out what the rider needs and will work for them. If they're an avid cyclist a mid drive would probably work really well for them. If they are someone who rides a bike sometimes a hub motor can out perform a poorly ridden mid drive. You've got to pay attention to your gears on a mid drive, hub motor not really. If you have a long steep hill to climb a hub is not ideal. Hubs motor bikes don't like to go slow under heavy load, a mid drive can crawl up a wall all day if ridden right.

If you live in a dead flat area and the rider is <150lb a 350watt hub motor will work fine, otherwise go with 500W or if legal in your state 750W. For stop start around town riding a rule of thumb is 10Wh of battery per kM. I typically get 50km out of a 5 year old 10.4Ah 48v battery which is right about 10wh/km. Obviously that can be way out to lunch depending on the rider, I can get 20wh/km or 5wh/km on the same commute. If your laws are 500w max get a 750 that is tuned down to 500w if you still want all the torque of a 750 but want to stay legal.

Make sure you get hydraulic brakes, cheap bikes have cable disc brakes. They work but, meh.

One of my favorite hub motors is the Das Kit 500W it is sold on Magnum bikes. They're a little more expensive than a Rad but they're not a Rad and they have more jam than a Bafang 500W.

Bafang dominate the hub motor world, they're bomb proof so don't worry about that. They also make high powered mid drives that rip. One of their best is the BBS02 or the BBSHD, the Ultra is OK but heavy.

The big brands mostly have high end mid drives from Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha... They're all really nice to ride and get great fuel economy, they have tiny motors and tiny batteries relative to hub motor bikes. The guys selling them generally don't know what they're selling and may tell you it has a 400w motor because that is what is has printed on the battery. The reality is all the high end mid drives are 250W motors developed to be legal in the European market.

High end mid drives have torque sensors vs the cadence sensors on most hub motor bikes. They ride very different. Test ride some of each.

Go to an e bike shop and test ride some. Generally if you go to a conventional bike shop they'll only have mid drives by Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, Brosse.... and no hub motors. If someone tells you hub motors are no good leave their store because they don't know WTF they're talking about.

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Thanks for this. Very helpful.

Our house is a 2 mile, 500' climb away from town center.... so that would be the design case, getting up that hill. Not a rough climb for any cyclist, but a rough climb for any non-cyclist. Sounds like a 500w hub motor bike would do the trick.

If you have even a little bit of bike mech knowledge, just go buy a decent bike on CL and throw a BBS02 or BBSHD on it. Just pay attention to BB size. It really is very easy to do and you'll get a much better product than many of the other ebikes out there. I threw one on a Salsa Mukluk in an afternoon. It isn't "Legal" because it is +1000W and has a throttle but I try to keep it low profile and go slow around other users.

Alternatively, I bought my wife a straight up Class 1 Benno cargo bike. It is kinda dorky, but a blast to ride and carry a bunch of shit (I usually load it up with beer/whiskey to take to the lake down the street. Nice thing about these compared to the DIY build is that the power is more intuitive and less "jerky". It is slower, and "Legal" but totally sufficient for getting around in the mountains where we live.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beaver

I'm kinda stoked so:

I work in an E Bike store. Last year this 80 year old guy comes in and is pretty chatty & interesting. Over the summer he came by pretty regularly. He would show up on a different ebike every time, OK not every time but he a few of them. By the end of the summer I sold him 2 bikes, a BH Atom with a Brose drive & a Bulls somthing or other with a Yamaha drive, Both really nice full suspension serious mountain bikes, hew wanted them to smooth out the potholes, he knew they were way overkill but didn't care. He also bought a Wattwagon online. Fast forward to Friday last, he came in and said he was going to get rid of his Wattwagon and asked if I wanted to buy it. Knowing that he paid $8000ish CAD for it and list is now $6800USD I thought, "Ya right, not likely." He offered it to me for $2000CAD so what could I do but buy it.

The bike has a titanium frame, Bafang Ultra drive, 52v 880Wh battery, Rohloff 14 speed hub, Gates carbon drive belt, Magura 4 piston brakes, Hope front hub, Crank Bros pedals..... High end everything. The Rohloff is worth more than I paid for the bike. I took it out for a rip and managed 63kph on the flat and got it up to 80kph on the hill nearby. https://wattwagons.com/pages/specifications

Attachment 330289

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WOW!

Great score!