New Season, New Tires, New Thread

2.5 rear will also be somwhat rounder than the 2.4.

If we were askingNigel Tufnel about bike tires he would say

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's .one wider , isn't it? It's not 2.4. You see, most blokes, you know, will be ridng a 2.4 . You're on 2.4 here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on 2.4 on your rear tire. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty DiBergi: I don't know.

Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put put on a 2.5 ?.

Nigel Tufnel: Exactly .one wider

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Originally Posted by Andeh

PSA: Argotal Enduro SuperSoft is available in the US now. I've bought 2 from Backcountry with their frequent 20% off coupons. I'm really liking the newer mid-spike tires (Argotal & High Roller 3) for dry California conditions (lots of loose over hard & hard). They aren't the fastest rolling or the smoothest feeling on hard berms, but they don't squirm and they give a ton of confidence in the sketchiest, most blown out loose areas of trails right when I want it the most.

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I feel like the SS Argotal could stick you to the ceiling if you tried hard enough. It's so overkill it screws up my riding if it's not even a little wet. It also rolls like it's adhered to the ground. But, for wet riding definitely a cold dead hands tire. Head and shoulders above the Ass.

I saw a lotta hate for the Magnotal upthread but no specifics on why. Por que?

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Kryptotal Enduro SS can also be now found in the US. The local shop just got in their order on Tuesday. For my local conditions, it's less about rubber/ground interface and more about the tread pattern. We get deep pockets of loose sand & silt that tighter patterns try to float over then wash out, while spike patterns have enough room for the sand to displace into so the knobs can bite. It's usually only small portions of the trails but they can ruin your ride/day if you mess them up. On my ebike there's not as much penalty for rolling resistance I'm happy to pay that price for the insurance. I decided to keep a Kryptotal Fr on my enduro bike. I'm also a pretty big fan of the new High Roller 3 in the front for the same applications. I find vs the Argotal it's a bit more conventional in terms of knob height and ramping, so it feels more like an Assegai on hardpack & berms but does better on loose. On a ground spectrum from hard to loose, I'd rank tires like: Assegai - Kryptotal Fr - HR3 - Argotal - Shorty2 - Hydrotal/Wetscream. Magic Mary I'd probably put somewhere in the HR3-Argotal range, good ground penetration but worse side knobs on hardpack than either.

Rightcoast, I ran Dissector/Rekon combo for a good bit on my trail bike. Solid combo for dry loose over hard conditions. Probably not what you want in any kind of soft, wet conditions, neither of which we have in Utah.

Thanks for the input, haven't swapped it yet, but think I'm going to give it a shot. We have had quite a bit of rain, and my local stuff was a little greasy earlier in the week. Will be riding on the Cape more in the next couple of months, so a few less rocks and roots

Just ordered some Alberts for the ebike, I’ll let you guys know how they compare to the magic mary/big betty combo I’ve been running for the last few years on all my bikes

After spending the last year on Schwalbe radial casing tires, I am now back on an EXO+ Assegai and DHR2 setup and I have found that for now I am sticking to the higher PSIs that I esatblished while running the raidals. Approx 24 psi F and 28 psi R.

Just mounted a kryptonal front enduro soft. I have a knight composite rim which is generally a pita to mount all tires on, but I will say these are definitely notably more difficult than a Maxxis of similar casing. Something to think about if you have really difficult wheels and are looking at the DH casing especially. Whoever put the zip tie trick in this thread saved me! Zip tie and a bead jack and it was good to go.

Other than 90's era DH tires, the Conti Enduro casings are the most I've ever wrestled with getting a bead to seat (I9 enduro alloy rims, usually pretty easy to mount). They've been great since.

Second that. It might be that my asseagi was more worn than I gave it credit for, but compared to that and my previous DHF, the kryptonal was absolutely amazing for the first ride. So much grip on hard pack to slightly dusty corners I couldn’t believe it.

Been running the Kryp enduro’s this spring as well on the Ripmo. Crazy grip in all conditions and they’re rolling really well too. Wear has been real minimal to date. Zero install problem on the WAO rims too

I was a total Maxxis nutswinger but have changed allegiances to the Kryptotals F&R, SS front and S rear as of 2yrs ago. They are a touch more slippery on wet stuff, but 98% of my riding is dry desert. Krypts are way faster rolling than DHF/DHR2, AND last 2x as long.

Short review on the Continental Dubnital.
I purchased the rapid race in a 2.4 and there are great things about them but overall I am not entirely sold.
The good - they are light at about 650 grams. The roll noticibly fast. Grip on compact dirt is very impressive a lot more than the specialized fast trak I was using before up front. Sidewalls feel good for such a light tire less wiggle than I had expected.
The bad - I have had them for 2 weeks and a number of the side knobs are pulling off. About 200-250 miles on them but they are wearing very quickly. I think as a rear it may be a 350-400 mile tire. The specilized Renegades I have used in the past are more like 700-800 miles.
They are also by far the scariest tire I've ever used in sand and decomposing granite style gravel. They are a very rounded shape even on a 30mm rim and the side knobs are much taller than the center tread. I can not tell exactly but it seems like on they ride like a narrower tire based on the shape and maybe the taller side knobs are prone to pulling when they find traction? I had these on a race last weekend on decomposing granite laid the bike down going pretty fast when it shifted unpredictably. I've ridden this soil type a lot but had five or ten close calls keeping the bike upright which is way more than normal.
On the right trails (high alpine Colorado for example) they would be incredible if you can accept the rate at which they wear.

Interested re. Sideknobs. I ran RaceKings for years and would tear knobs off the regular version but was good with the Bernstein. Stinks they may not have resolved that issue.
Based on the BicycleRollingResistance tests, grip on hard surfaces should be really good- class leading for fast XC tires, so that makes sense.

I'm a little confused about your mention of shape. Are you saying the casing is round, but with tall side-knobs the profile is more square?
Are you running 2.4"s?

Yes running the 2.4.
This may not make full sense but I will do my best to explain what I have noticed. In most conditions they grip way way better than anticipated. Very impressive descending confidence in most soil.

They are quite round. Side nobs are deep but they are way around the casing so the overall shape is still round. On sand and loose dirt, I feel like it rides like a narrower tire based on the shape. IE it dives in a bit deeper and is less prone to floating. Riding on the western slope, when you hit sand, they float a bit less and get pulled around more. I'm actually totally fine with this as most chunks of sand are short and suck regardless. It is also only a little bit worse feeling in these areas.
The other sensation came from riding out at Buffalo creek and was essentially that in some instances in the loose granite, the side nob is the first thing to find traction and can pull unpredictably. It is possible that this is expanding on me just not feeling comfortable on the tire in loose soil and I was having a hard time balancing. It felt like in sections with some loose soil in the middle of single track, the bike is upright and the tire is skimming along and then the tire would have a side nob grab and want to pull the bike. Think of a concave trail section with some loose dirt deposited in there.
It may just be me and it is likely specific to loose over hard. I did the Hundo last weekend and crashed once and had 7-8 other close calls which is very uncommon for me. I lived in comfier until recently and rode out there a bunch and while every tire does this sometimes in that soil it was prononuned on the Dubnital.

That being said, I have not had this problem in other soil types. Good tire. Main complaint is durability.

So I've got this Mukluk fat bike that I put a motor on. It is kinda cool, but the fat ass tires wear out pretty fast and I don't really need them to be so fat anyway since it is mainly for just riding around town in the summer. I have Rolling Darryl rims. What is a skinnier tire with a harder compound that I could throw on there?

Im back on Schwalbe Albert Radials after a month re visiting the Assegai and DHR2 combo. I find the Schwalbe tires have better rebound characteristics, are quieter, smoother, roll faster, and have as much or more outright grip.

If I am running a double down Maxxis rear tire and want something similarly durable am I looking for enduro casing or downhill casing from continental? I feel like I am reading mixed descriptions of enduro being equivalent to exo plus vs some saying it’s closer to double down. Thanks!

Conti downhill casing is the closer equivalent to Maxxis DD. Conti Enduro is more like EXO+.

Can someone explain to me what's so great about the new Continental tires? They all look slow. The cornering knobs look fine enough, nothing very spectacular. For those of us with No Rocks(tm) on our local trails, they look heavy, slow, and unremarkable. I'm not saying they necessarily look bad, just nothing to get so excited about. Also, that rear specific tire looks like a front tire. Is it the rubber compound?
I'm more excited about the mystery Maxxis prototype that looks like an updated DHF.

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Originally Posted by D(C)

Conti downhill casing is the closer equivalent to Maxxis DD. Conti Enduro is more like EXO+.

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Eh, little tougher though. I've borked & rolled my share of EXO+ as a rear, enduro conti I've yet to slice or tear a lug despite my best efforts and sidewalls seem to hold a little better. With the caveat that I've not yet exposed them to shale or pumice.

And re: what's better. I think in a nutshell they are marginally lighter and roll faster than they look like they should.

I would second that. Im running Conti Enduro casings on my bike park rig, and they are heavier and feel more heavy duty that Exo+. They are probably somewhere between Exo+ and DD, leaning towards DD.

Yeah, the Contis roll faster than they look. Enduro Magazine just did a tire roundup where they actually tried to do some lab testing, and their rolling resistance measured in watts is quite a bit lower than similar Maxxis offerings. I suspect quite a bit of that comes down to different rubber layup. Apparently even for their "Super Soft", they use a soft rubber core and a more durable outer, which is the opposite of how Maxxis does it (soft over hard). That makes the Contis roll faster and last longer, at the expense of being less grippy on wet roots & rocks.

Replacing a Rekon on a downcountry bike. Anybody find something they like better in this space? Maybe with an eye towards durability? Use is dry eastern WA riding. Sand, dust, rocky tech.

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Just adding a data point to the Conti discussion: I went from a DHR2 Maxterra DH casing to a Kryptotal Rear Supersoft DH casing.&nbsp; Both paired with a Maxxgrip Assegai up front.&nbsp; Kryptotal rolls faster.&nbsp; Casing feels similar-ish stiffness.&nbsp; The Maxxis DH casing gets noticeably soft when the tread is nearing end of life - the casing just gets beaten soft.&nbsp; So far, the Conti DH casing seems to be holding up a bit better, but I&#39;m only about halfway through the life of the tire.&nbsp; The supersoft conti seems to be wearing similarly-ish to the Maxterra Maxxis.&nbsp; Conti might be holding up a smidge better.&nbsp; (side note - I think the DH casing Maxterra DHR2&#39;s are a softer rubber than assorted other Maxterra options from Maxxis.&nbsp; They wear out quicker and grip better).&nbsp; Grip wise, the Maxxis are maybe a smidge better on wet roots, but the Contis are better than expected.&nbsp; Contis are better for straight line braking.&nbsp; Both are similar for dry cornering support.</p>
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So far I&#39;m liking the Contis.&nbsp; Haven&#39;t tried the front yet, but likely will soon.</p>
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FWIW, I know several guys who changed to Kryptotals from Maxxis, and despite being warned, they over-shot jumps because the rolling speed is significantly faster. Caught them off-guard even though they were warned ahead of time. It&#39;s not a minor change. This is on lines they have done hundreds of times and were very familiar with.

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Its not that Conti&#39;s are fast, it&#39;s that somewhat Maxxis makes tires that are slow as molasses. Even their XC stuff; People look at a tire like the Aspen and think &quot;That must be fast&quot; because it has no knobs, but it&#39;s a total POS. They only feel fast because you&#39;re barely in control with the lack of grip. Huskier - I haven&#39;t ridden it, but Conti Trinotal (similar pattern, but unlikely better durability) or Xynotal (Can get tougher casings) may fit the bill. A Specialized Ground Control Grid may work. Vittoria Agarro should be pretty tough for a lighter trail tire.</p>

Maybe I’m used to them and don’t know any better, but I like the Bontrager XR3s and XR4s I’ve been using. They’ve lasted, roll well, and cling on enough that I haven’t died yet. Maybe there’s a reason they suck, but I don’t know what it is

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

it&#39;s that somewhat Maxxis makes tires that are slow as molasses.

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So that explains why I always finish last place in races lol

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Originally Posted by Huskier

Replacing a Rekon on a downcountry bike. Anybody find something they like better in this space? Maybe with an eye towards durability? Use is dry eastern WA riding. Sand, dust, rocky tech.

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Sticking with Maxxis, you might like the Forekaster. I find its spikier knobs dig into soft dirt better than the Rekon. It has better cornering bite than the Rekon in loose, dry conditions, whereas the Rekon can feel more drifty. Rolling speed is similar, maybe a touch slower but in the same realm.

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Originally Posted by D(C)

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Sticking with Maxxis, you might like the Forekaster. I find its spikier knobs dig into soft dirt better than the Rekon. It has better cornering bite than the Rekon in loose, dry conditions, whereas the Rekon can feel more drifty. Rolling speed is similar, maybe a touch slower but in the same realm.

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Thanks yeah that's what I am leaning towards. I run Xynotal on my big bike and find the tread to be dense and shallow. Great for rolling quick on dry roots and rocks but skitchy in loose corners. Conti's cross king looks interesting too if they updated with the new compound.

Cross King is very much an undersized XC tire. Makes for a good front pairing with a Race King rear. I doubt they'll update it as it seems like they're moving away from Race King / Cross King and toward the new tires.

Hoping for some remedial help folks.

After years and years of riding whatever rubber was free or really cheap with various sponsorships or prodeals Im now in the regular retail market for tires. Ive never had a choice beyond 2 companies before and now that I can ride anything I have no idea where to start. Im on a Pivot Switchblade 29 150/160. I no longer race in any way, and while I like going fast Im not sure a slow tread pattern vs a fast one matters much to me. First priority is grip, then durability, then I guess weight - though my days of being a weight weenie are also likely gone for good, I try to keep things light where reasonable. I like to spec my bike for the nastier stuff I do, not the most common, so this is a tire for technical rocks, loose gravel and shelfy stuff. I&#39;d rather be over-tired on smooth stuff, then under-tired when I need the grip.

Currently looking a 2.4 rear but will also need a front soon. What do I want? I like the looks of the WTB Trail Boss, the new WTB Peacekeeper is interesting but maybe too low tread, I&#39;ve seen your notes about the Kryptotal, etc, but I&#39;ve really been out of this shopping space for a while. What do I want and why? Hell, Ill probably just buy whatever I can find cheap and ride it too long.

People I trust seem to love the new Conti's. Michelin Wild Enduro has treated me well for a few years. You can often find them heavily discounted on BikeInn (if it still exists?) and then Jenson will price match. Or at least they used to, my shoulders were too jacked to ride for two years so I haven't bought tires in a while.

For that amount of loose, I'd say Conti Argotal up front, Kryptotal Rear for rear. Enduro casing minimum, Super Soft front (that exists now for Enduro if you look for it). Maxxis High Roller 3 is really similar to the Argo, and seriously good in loose over hard, just wears out faster than Conti.

Andeh, how does the Argo do on hardpack? Not what it's for, i know.
I recently put on a set of Krypto front and rear for bike park use and i gotta say, theyre badass.
So supportive.
So I'm thinking of getting another set for the trail/enduroish bike. Problem is, like half my pedaling rides involve a good bit of gnar rock and loose pea gravel and sand. The rest is fairly mellow flow trail. I'm pretty happy with the Krypto front but would like more front end grip in the rocky chunder but i dont want something too squirmy on the hardpack sections.

Hardpack is clearly not its forte, but it manages much better than you'd expect. I attribute this to the very well supported side knobs. I ride in NorCal, so our local trails here for about 8 months of the year are dust, kitty litter, and gravel over hard in some parts, and concrete-like hardpack in others (especially berms). So while it's bumpier over hard than something with more/tighter knobs like the KrF, it doesn't feel like a huge tradeoff. That's why I've gone to running them on the front year round. I recommended this to a racer buddy, and when we went up to Downieville about a month ago, he was giggling saying that it was like a cheat code up front in the mixed alpine. If the numbers are to believed in the recent Enduro MTB tire roundup test, its rolling speed is actually pretty close to the KrF, and faster than an Assegai.

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For that amount of loose, I&#39;d say Conti Argotal up front, Kryptotal Rear for rear. Enduro casing minimum, Super Soft front (that exists now for Enduro if you look for it). Maxxis High Roller 3 is really similar to the Argo, and seriously good in loose over hard, just wears out faster than Conti.

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Just put this setup on my bigger bike and LOVE IT. Riding a Spec Hillbilly front / eliminator rear on the little bike and that is fantastic in loose (but more trail oriented) trails too.

True intermediate tires like these have a much sharper and engaged feel vs something like the Assegai that is great on firmer trails or decomposed granite, but gets skatey as the trails loosen and get blown since the assegai has way more positive tread and floats up higher in moondust. The intermediates also track better in deeper rutted sections too, IMO. Right now, everyone on Assegais are complaining about how loose our trails are, and everyone on intermediates are LOVING the riding conditions.

There isnt much hardpack in the central wasatch at present, but both tires have awesome lateral grip on smooth somewhat slippery quartzite, so I expect them to be competent come fall time. I cant say this with conviction as its not fully tested, but I think both the Argotal and Hillbilly will be a step or two less skatey on hardpack vs how skatey the Assegai is in blown chunder. The argotal and Hillbilly ride pretty similarly, with the main difference being the Argotal is a bit more square vs a little rounder (but not super round) hillbilly. my untested guess is that the hillbilly will be a tick better on hardpack with the slightly more round profile and less gap between corenering knobs.

Hillbilly is also $50 on specializeds website right now.

Interesting. That's almost exactly my same trail conditions from April through October.

I'm a few rides into a dual Argotal setup for the loose, dry conditions we get here mid-summer in Southwestern BC. So far, I am quite happy with it. They seem to have more bite and predictability in the loose stuff than the Kryptotal Fr/Re setup they replaced. I initially only switched the front to Argotal but found the Krytotal Re in back was sliding around on marbles more than I'd like in comparison. It felt unbalanced.

I'll be interested to see how the Argotals do as we get moisture in the fall. Around here, the dirt is most firm and supportive over the winter. Having the knobs dig into it is less of a factor. Traction on wet rocks and roots is the more critical thing. We'll see if the tall, spaced knobs squirm on the supportive dirt and feel sketchy on the wet rocks/roots. I suspect that the Kryptotal setup is more preferable.