If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Do you think the emails you send or the money you spend moves the needle more?

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You seem to find something to nitpick every time you quote me regardless of the topic. I don't need to air my laundry with an account of every dollar I spend on hunting equipment nor the times I vote or contact my legislators.

A gun owner writes that he supports tighter gun regulations and that he doesn't support, want, or purchase "scary black guns" and would comply and begrudgingly turn in all of his firearms (none being semi-auto or assaultish because that seems to be the in vogue terminology) if that was the law.

So f'off.

I guess you could look at it that the keep your guns type are probably going to win this fight for a long time. And unfortunately, it will be awhile until things shift legally to prevent tragedies like yesterday. And I'm not cheering about it-it really is sad and is tearing families and society apart at times. Was looking for a more sensible conversation but I know better in the padded room. I should have just quoted every other mass shooting thread and my thoughts than take the trouble. Good luck. I hope you figure out a way to fix this that all sides will agree on.

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Originally Posted by The AD

I think you're right here. Just like everything else nowadays the middle ground seems to get completely trounced on by the extreme views on either side. As a result nothing ever gets done and people just become further entrenched.

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A large majority of Americans think we should have universal background checks and a minority group is holding the rest of hostage so what, criminals can get easier access to guns?

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Originally Posted by Summer

Australia Enjoys Another Peaceful Day Under Oppressive Gun Control Regime


Due to the nation’s controversial and oppressive gun restrictions, no one has died as a result of a mass-shooting from an automatic or semi-automatic weapon on Australian soil today for the 9,523rd day in a row.

North Betoota cinema attendant, Christina Upton can’t believe it has been a whole 26 years and 30 days since a heavily armed white Australian male decided to shoot at a crowd of unsuspecting Australian civilians for no reason.

She says the peaceful two decades that have followed are “probably” because the Australian government decided to strip her of a God-given right to own projectile weaponry capable of shooting down helicopters.

“Yeah, I mean the Yanks come across as sick people. This year there have been more mass shootings in America than calendar dates… but it wasn’t that long ago that Australia had postal workers holding their entire office hostage with AR-15s."

Ms Upton, who claims to be able to walk freely outside of her home without fear of being killed by a mass shooter, believes that God-given rights probably play a bigger role in America’s mass shootings than Americans think.

“I don’t think America should be so hard on itself about the mental state of thousands of lonely white losers. We have those people too,”

“…just in our country those people don’t have access to Russian-made automatic assault rifles that have been invented purely to help military personnel win wars."

“If I was in America, I’d be terrified of working in a cinema – for fear that one of these losers would use their God-given rights to murder me in cold blood."

Local Betoota cop, Rick, says that this is because idiots have a harder time getting their hands on machine guns than criminals.

“I think America needs to realise that it’s not really the criminals and gangsters you need to worry about as such. I’d be more concerned about the indoor types.”

“Criminals use guns to help their efforts in making money through crime – they have much less interest in killing you for the sake of it,”

“Weirdos use guns to shoot up medical centres and elementary schools for no reason other than the fact that they want to use their God-given rights,”

“In Australia our weirdos are forced to write stern letters to newspaper editors and politicians."

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merits a ^bump^ in response to new_guy's post -

it not the criminals, it's the crazy-s.

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

A large majority of Americans think we should have universal background checks and a minority group is holding the rest of hostage so what, criminals can get easier access to guns?

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Federal law says any gun purchased at a licensed dealer must undergo a background check....which is where the TX School shooter purchased his gun so most likely he was checked per defined law. I think 70% of gun purchases are thru a dealer.

Instead of throwing around vague "universal background checks" terms, I'd define the checks you and this "majority" wants.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I believe I'm correct in saying $32B is the total opioid settlement number, so far.

Is Leroy suggesting a similar solution with the firearm industry?

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Leroy is a narcissistic idiot


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Originally Posted by altacoup

There’s one party preventing sensible gun control! And those who vote for the GOP vote for this shit to continue.

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That's because they're more afraid of going to McDonalds without a gun than they are of children getting massacred if preventing that means they can't take a gun to McDonalds..

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

muted was basically saying anyone with a gun is overcompensating for a tiny wee wee. To further any conversations on guns in the USA, painting with those broad strokes isn't going to go far. People need to remember there is a whole bunch of people in the middle that would be fine with regulations that may prevent mass shootings. Calling those people macho and not understanding their reasons for firearm ownership is not going to help.

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I didn't mean to paint all gun owners as one way, I should have been more specific. I was calling out the ones that are too selfish to even remotely thinking of giving them up or consider restrictions because they are fun to shoot, collect, whatever. I know they're fun to shoot, we all know it. Not because I have a small penis, target shooting is fun. My issue is many hide behind 'my rights' and 'protect my family' when really it's just about 'guns are fun' and they want to keep having fun. And on top of them being fun, they are portrayed as sexy macho collectors items in America. I also see this as a problem.

What I would like to see is a massive almost-impossible cultural shift where glorifying guns are for insecure man-child losers. And real men only use guns for hunting and protection, and that no one needs a gun that can massacre your neighbors and any cop that comes to stop you. Like Canada and most of the world I guess.

I wasn't expressing my frustration on all gun owners or a 'whole bunch of people in the middle', just the selfish liars who aren't honest with themselves who want the cool big guns just to have cool big guns. Which is what frustrates me. Keep on posting here please, I like your opinions.

Taken from Summer's post. I support all of this-doubt it would ever fly here but I would certainly vote for those who support a system like this. And I did check the categories-if I turned in some revolvers, I would be in the B and C categories if you're wondering Maz.

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Step one: Obtaining a gun licence

must be over the age of 18 for a firearm licence. But can apply for firearm minor permit if under 18 years.
(1) identify your 'genuine reason' for wanting a gun licence: sport/target shooting, recreational hunting, primary production, pest control, business or employment, rural occupation, animal welfare, firearm collector.
(2) Depending on your genuine reason/s you will need to provide the required proof for that genuine reasons i.e.: proof of club membership, proof of employment, proof below to collector society, proof from accountant or solicitor that you are primary producer or employer that you are a security guard etc.
(3) obtain an application form for a firearm licence
(4) Complete a multi-day firearm safety course. Pass a written test and practical assessment which will provide certificate that you have passed and completed course.
(5) Compile your firearm application form:
Identify your genuine reasons for a firearm
Identify Category of firearm you require: A, B, C, D and/or H. For D (most lethal firearms. For category D (Self-loading rifles and shotguns), applicant must show "special reason" as to why the applicant needs such a firearm and why a less lethal firearm would not fit the purpose.
attach safety training completion certificate
declaration that you meet safe storage requirements for the firearm category you are seeking. Firearm storage is generally not inspected but random checks are allowed.
4) Firearms Registry processes your application and conduct background checks: includes - criminal record and any court ordered mental health orders and intelligence checks.

If you have a record for a 'prescribed offence' then you cannot obtain a gun licence including:
sexual offences
Violent offences
Offences related to prohibited drugs
Robbery
Terrorism-related offences
Offences relating to organised crime and criminal groups
Firearms or weapons offences
Fraud, dishonesty and stealing offences5) Wait at least 28 days for checks to be conducted and application processed.
6) If your application is approved you will be sent a letter. You then go to what is known as the Road Traffic Authority wit the letter and your proof of ID. RTA will take your photo, you pay a fee and RTA will issue and firearm licence.

Note: for a first time applicant foe a handgun licence the applicant may only apply for what is known as a probationary pistol licence. a PPL is issued for six months and the licence holder may only use the handgun at a gun club or under supervision by a person who has a full handgun licence.

Step two: To obtain a gun

Lodge a permit to acquire (PTA) application. A PTA must be lodged for each firearm
The firearm type must correspond with the firearm licence category you have
On the PTA form the applicant must:
to identify address where firearms will be stored.
Type of firearm category they are seeking
declare can comply with safekeeping requirements and have a good reason for acquiring the firearm. The good reason must relate to the 'genuine reason'.
For permit to acquire a handgun (include semi-automatic) official from pistol club must complete part of the form
attached the fee required
send PTA application to Firearm Registry
There is a mandatory 28 day waiting period to complete further background checks. If your PTA is for a second or subsequent hunting rifle then background checks are not conducted.
Once you have the PTA you take it and firearm licence to Licensed Firearms Dealer
You can purchase a firearm/s
Firearm dealer will notify Firearms Registry of the purchase.
The firearm will be recorded on the Firearms Registry database system

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

I didn't mean to paint all gun owners as one way, I should have been more specific. I was calling out the ones that are too selfish to even remotely thinking of giving them up or consider restrictions because they are fun to shoot, collect, whatever. I know they're fun to shoot, we all know it. Not because I have a small penis, target shooting is fun. My issue is many hide behind 'my rights' and 'protect my family' when really it's just about 'guns are fun' and they want to keep having fun. And on top of them being fun, they are portrayed as sexy macho collectors items in America. I also see this as a problem.

What I would like to see is a massive almost-impossible cultural shift where glorifying guns are for insecure man-child losers. And real men only use guns for hunting and protection, and that no one needs a gun that can massacre your neighbors and any cop that comes to stop you. Like Canada and most of the world I guess.

I wasn't expressing my frustration on all gun owners or a 'whole bunch of people in the middle', just the selfish liars who aren't honest with themselves who want the cool big guns just to have cool big guns. Which is what frustrates me. Keep on posting here please, I like your opinions.

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Hey, we're all good. The best shooters and most lethal hunters I know would prefer that you didn't know they have guns. Rarely talk about them and keep them locked away from the public eye. The people you're talking about are going to be tough to get them to see anything but the way they do it which is a bummer.

Y'all dismissed it cuz its Bobby, but his suggestion to make assault rifles Class 3/NFA is a good one.

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

I’m under the impression that the commonly used Universal Background Check means all transfers of firearms between two parties requires a check. IE - 100%

https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/whe...rol-1513305913

Does this solve school shootings? No, but no single implementation will, it requires a myriad of changes, big and small.

Abbot said something like “everyone who shoots someone else has a mental health issue.” Ok. A problem (mental health) has been identified and he has now connected it to every single shooting in his state.

Is he going to do anything? Doubtful.

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He may not have the power to do anything. Its subject to federal law and the constitution. Many states try to pass laws banning and barring weapons and banning certain people from obtaining them, but are later found to be in violation of federal laws and constitution.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

You seem to find something to nitpick every time you quote me regardless of the topic. I don't need to air my laundry with an account of every dollar I spend on hunting equipment nor the times I vote or contact my legislators.

A gun owner writes that he supports tighter gun regulations and that he doesn't support, want, or purchase "scary black guns" and would comply and begrudgingly turn in all of his firearms (none being semi-auto or assaultish because that seems to be the in vogue terminology) if that was the law.

So f'off.

I guess you could look at it that the keep your guns type are probably going to win this fight for a long time. And unfortunately, it will be awhile until things shift legally to prevent tragedies like yesterday. And I'm not cheering about it-it really is sad and is tearing families and society apart at times. Was looking for a more sensible conversation but I know better in the padded room. I should have just quoted every other mass shooting thread and my thoughts than take the trouble. Good luck. I hope you figure out a way to fix this that all sides will agree on.

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You mad 'cause you know it's the money.

Class 3/NFA is a great idea. Plus it makes a person wait for months for their firearm. And the waiting period alone would go a long way to stopping some of the insanity. That said there’s not a single Republican politician in the country who would even agree to bring that suggestion up for debate. Even if the democrats had a super majority, every Republican politician would leave the country in order to deny a quorum. While it’s a great idea it’ll never happen. And if Bobby went to the shooting range and suggested that to his shooting friends he might not ever return. They’d view that as the worst repression ever experienced.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Class 3/NFA is a great idea. Plus it makes a person wait for months for their firearm. And the waiting period alone would go a long way to stopping some of the insanity. That said there’s not a single Republican politician in the country who would even agree to bring that suggestion up for debate. Even if the democrats had a super majority, every Republican politician would leave the country in order to deny a quorum. While it’s a great idea it’ll never happen. And if Bobby went to the shooting range and suggested that to his shooting friends he might not ever return. They’d view that as the worst repression ever experienced.

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Swapping suppressors off the list for AR's makes sense to me, but I'm just a fudd who likes to keep my hearing intact come Fall. Seems to tick the 'well regulated' box.

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

He may not have the power to do anything. Its subject to federal law and the constitution. Many states try to pass laws banning and barring weapons and banning certain people from obtaining them, but are later found to be in violation of federal laws and constitution.

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Abbott didn't have any federal obstacles to making Texas totally open carry for everyone practically everywhere, no permits required, even for hanguns. Are you saying he can't walk back the shit Texas and Texans have done on their own??

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Well, he could increase access to mental health care right? Prevent the problem instead of the symptom of the problem.

I can’t believe I had to point that out.

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Be nice...I bet he will do SOMETHING....however, it might not be what YOU want or what YOU think is enough...so be prepared for disappointment.

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

Be nice...I bet he will do SOMETHING....however, it might not be what YOU want or what YOU think is enough...so be prepared for disappointment.

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just own you need death and failure and oppression of other to feel better about your pathetic existence

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Abbott didn't have any federal obstacles to making Texas totally open carry for everyone practically everywhere, no permits required, even for hanguns. Are you saying he can't walk back the shit Texas and Texans have done on their own??

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I am trying to stick to things related to this school shooting. Going off on multiple tangents like many are doing here just ends up going no where. I don't think concealed carry laws, would have worked here. I mean shit...the law against murder didn't work either.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

You mad 'cause you know it's the money.

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Nah. No kids and I can own all the guns I want. Merely trying to be constructive following a tragedy. Dick.

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

I have no expectations of Abbot or TX so I won’t be disappointed.

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I take that tact about all politicians. I believe most of them aren't there to help YOU..just themselves.

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

I am trying to stick to things related to this school shooting. Going off on multiple tangents like many are doing here just ends up going no where. I don't think concealed carry laws, would have worked here. I mean shit...the law against murder didn't work either.

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Well, making the age to purchase 21 instead of 18 would have at least make it less convenient for both Buffalo and Texas shooters. That's a state level decision.

Societal decay in this country has been ongoing since the 1940's. I see little hope. I have a 10 yr old, makes me want to puke. Also have bolt action rifles, a couple shotguns, a Glock 20, grew up with an AR-15 my dad had for plinking at our cabin.

It would be interesting to read sociological studies addressing hypotheses surrounding these shootings. Like WTF is going on in the USA that we have them weekly, and other countries with firearms do not.

Rambling. Dumbfounded.

90 minutes between report of shots and when the lunatic was put down.

Obviously, lunatics with AR’s does not make it easier, but had he been holed up with a 8 + 1 shotgun does anyone think the gravy seals would have gone in sooner.

If that’s my kids school I’m not standing back while those guys gear up and play with their toys.

Total fail


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I've worked in plenty of ERs with cops/guns, one entrance, metal detectors, and big scary attack dogs. Same in court system when my wife worked fed probation. One entrance, two cops with guns, metal detector. Is it a solution for schools, fuck if I know. Is it worth trying? Or will it defray the efforts for other changes. I'm afraid our society/politicians lacks the ability to consider/discuss rationally any solutions.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

I've worked in plenty of ERs with cops/guns, one entrance, metal detectors, and big scary attack dogs. Same in court system when my wife worked fed probation. One entrance, two cops with guns, metal detector. Is it a solution for schools, fuck if I know. Is it worth trying? Or will it defray the efforts for other changes. I'm afraid our society/politicians lacks the ability to consider/discuss rationally any solutions.

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what fantastic values to teach children, is it worth trying!?

i worked in windowless unnetworked labs with badge checks and armed guards, why not try that?

what could it cost, $10?

We couldn’t do masks, but armed camps? Fuck off.

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Well, making the age to purchase 21 instead of 18 would have at least make it less convenient for both Buffalo and Texas shooters. That's a state level decision.

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Thats cherry picking monday morning quarterback style.

I would agree that perhaps more maturity is beneficial...but you can't put a number on that. For example...some 8 yr olds can have the mental capacity or moral fortitude to handle a gun properly while a 56 yr old can got postal. It does seems strange that an 18yr old can have a gun, but can't drink! A 13 yr old can have an abortion, but can't buy cigarettes? Random stabs at trying to satisfy political movements.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Class 3/NFA is a great idea. Plus it makes a person wait for months for their firearm. And the waiting period alone would go a long way to stopping some of the insanity. That said there’s not a single Republican politician in the country who would even agree to bring that suggestion up for debate. Even if the democrats had a super majority, every Republican politician would leave the country in order to deny a quorum. While it’s a great idea it’ll never happen. And if Bobby went to the shooting range and suggested that to his shooting friends he might not ever return. They’d view that as the worst repression ever experienced.

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As someone who likes to shoot and sees the AR platform as a pretty good target-and-hunting rifle (with an appropriately small magazine for the latter), I could absolutely support making all semi auto rifles with detachable magazines or clips Class 3. However, I don't believe it would hold up under current constitutional law. Attempting to change that law is technically possible but not in the current political environment, and if there was any major move towards revising the second amendment, it would probably fracture the country even worse.

If revising the second amendment were possible, the rational solution would be to do so and implement an Australian-style buyback program along with strict regulations on anything semi auto (not just "assault weapons").

Waiting periods for additional gun purchases are seriously problematic in the "crap, I broke my gun during deer/duck/whatever" season, especially if you're planning a big trip because that's your thing. Think about how you'd feel if you had a big ski trip planned, broke your skis, and had to wait 5 days (let alone 10 or 14) to replace them. For that reason, I think that subsequent purchases of the same class of weapon shouldn't be subject to the same waiting provisions that an initial purchase may reasonably be.

Just my two cents. Unfortunately, we're nowhere near being willing to accept a rational response.

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Shit can get fixed, that’s why it’s a platform right?

and it’s the current interpretation of law

Honestly I think that increasing the age limit for purchasing guns and ammo is a good one. Or maybe it’s more gun education up to a certain age. I’m no expert but often read that the adolescent brain isn’t fully developed until age 24 or 25. It seems a lot of these shootings are done by males in that age group. (under 25ish). I know they’re adults at 18, so that’s a challenging idea to have catch on.

NFA/class 3 discussion was pertaining to ar15 ak style guns. Not hunting rifles. I personally possess both types of fire arms and NFA/class 3. I have a shotgun from 1929, shoots great. Guns don’t break very easily. I’d have zero problem waiting a month for a hunting rifle. Absolutely nobody needs to be able to walk out of a store with a gun less than 30 minutes. Last time I bought a fire arm in Utah it took about 15 minutes.

They’re not killing eachother in mass in downtown St Louis with Daniel Defense AR’s.

What’s everyone’s plan for that?


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This dude seems high strung, but absolute grade A rant:


https://youtu.be/yzSI28VJF_0

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Originally Posted by dunfree

what fantastic values to teach children, is it worth trying!?

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what fantastic values did we teach nineteen ten year olds who were two weeks from Summer Vacation ?

' is it worth trying!? '
would it be worth trying if if was your ten year old ?


There is a short post now far up-thread that says simply,
'This is the cost for living in a gun culture. Nothing will change. nothing new. '

This morning I was upset; tonight I am resigned.
Hate is a plague - bigotry. racism.

I don't believe it was a 'war on terror' -
terror was what they were selling and the media was complicit.


I have spent the last thirty years trying to teach kids Good values - that we do the right thing., Good works., and that we take care of each other.

is it worth trying!?
That part of my Judgement day, I can face -
' ... my failures,
I have not forgotten them. ... ' ( J.Browne )


good luck. good night... tj

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Shit can get fixed, that’s why it’s a platform right?

and it’s the current interpretation of law

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I would've thought, but a guy I know from motorcycling--who, for what it's worth, is decidedly not a GOP member had an issue with his primary duck gun (not even an AR) and couldn't get the parts he needed until after his long-planned trip was underway. He happened to have a backup gun, but he made a pretty good case in terms of significant waiting periods presenting very real issues for uses (hunting) that most people don't take issue with.

Another guy I know went to do a final sight in the day before leaving for deer camp and realized the powered scope on his AR wasn't working (which he had been planning to use as his deer rifle, with an appropriate magazine). Again, he happened to have another rifle that was good to go, but if he hadn't and couldn't get the AR scope going, being able to walk into an outdoors store in just-West-of-nowhere and walk out with a functional rifle would've saved the trip.

Now, if you want to talk about the right-wing resistance to using modern tech to improve background checks, that's another angle that could easily help differentiate between someone who has previously been cleared and someone who has not.

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Originally Posted by skiJ

what fantastic values did we teach nineteen ten year olds who were two weeks from Summer Vacation ?

' is it worth trying!? '
would it be worth trying if if was your ten year old ?


There is a short post now far up-thread that says simply,
'This is the cost for living in a gun culture. Nothing will change. nothing new. '

This morning I was upset; tonight I am resigned.
Hate is a plague - bigotry. racism.

I don't believe it was a 'war on terror' -
terror was what they were selling and the media was complicit.


I have spent the last thirty years trying to teach kids Good values - that we do the right thing., Good works., and that we take care of each other.

is it worth trying!?
That part of my Judgement day, I can face -
' ... my failures,
I have not forgotten them. ... ' ( J.Browne )


good luck. good night... tj

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Police did such a great job this time, let’s give them more money to fix their fuck up is a way of life in the us, yes

Police never pay the cost of their fuckups, everyone else does. But then these super citizens don’t even have a duty to protect

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

Thats cherry picking monday morning quarterback style.

I would agree that perhaps more maturity is beneficial...but you can't put a number on that. For example...some 8 yr olds can have the mental capacity or moral fortitude to handle a gun properly while a 56 yr old can got postal. It does seems strange that an 18yr old can have a gun, but can't drink! A 13 yr old can have an abortion, but can't buy cigarettes? Random stabs at trying to satisfy political movements.

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Driving insurance folks can sure put a number to age of maturity: 25

^^^^
That’s exactly how I felt last night and this morning. The GQP has zero desire to govern. They’ve said it out loud time and after time. When someone tells you who they are believe it. They only care about power and tax cuts for the rich, they pick off single issue voters with guns, abortion, racism, etc. and they’re fucking fascist who want to destroy democracy in the USA.


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Attachment 417401

When people elect politicians to run government that don’t actually believe in government you get a shitty government

Republican voters have conditioned the GQP. The Democratic Party has conditioned its voters that nothing can be done about anything.

Probably paywalled but I encourage those with access, wherever you stand on this issue, to read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/o...e=articleShare