My 17 yo loves his shiros
Anybody know the factory edge bevels for m102?
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My 17 yo loves his shiros
Anybody know the factory edge bevels for m102?
Attachment 453049
I think they are 1 base/2 side
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Shiros in SoCal? That’s a special day!Quote:
Originally Posted by bry
Thx. Mine are slightly edge highQuote:
Originally Posted by bry
I've been dicking around with my bases on the new m102's.
They were def edge high for about 12-18" out front and maybe 8" in the tails. pretty flat underfoot.
Finally got them ground but wasn't overstoked on the work. The machine didn't get em flat all the way to the tip and it had a few flaws in the stone that transferred onto the base. And I asked for a linear spring cut and got a cold powder cut.
Goddammit.
any how I got 1 and 2 on the edges.
So the skis skied more effortlessly before; now they seem laggy and more grabby. My feet are closer together than usual it's weird. Like a 10% narrower stance. I don't like it. Gotta loosen them up. Detuned a little for day one and a bunch more for day two, we'll see.
Sometimes I should just leave well enough alone.
That’s a bummer ^^
Mine aren’t extremely edge high and they may be flat underfoot, too. I’ll have to double check. I may leave them and see how they wear because I don’t think I’ll have time to work on flattening before skiing them (I have skivisions tools). I’d rather get the edges polished and detune the sensitive areas. They’re currently curing by my stove for the night.
Love it! Are these the go to on the wider end at the moment?Quote:
Originally Posted by bry
Yeah, found them at play it again sports Bozeman, had rarely seen snow.
I made time today to prep my m102. Bases were barely edge high to flat. Now fairly flat with structure from my skivisions medium stone. Put a 1:3 base:side bevel. The factory edge tune, especially the side bevel, was really variable. I only detuned a little bit and am unclear how much to detune/dull at the sensitive areas (tip and tail).Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
That snow beneath the shiros looks eminently carveable. Suhweeet.
My tune was not off by much from factory, maybe a mm or less in the shovels of light gap. Noticeable but not bad.
I only had them ground because I like em perfectly flat, which can be a challenge and maybe a machine gives an operator less latitude to press the shovel into the stone.
I was looking for a bit more aggressive grind but as we got cold pow the next day, the pattern wasn't bad.
I'll get em back to perfect soon enough.
The surprise to me was the variability of the side bevel. I took off a fair bit of material on one edge , variable amount on a second, and barely any on the other two. I take care to clean material out from my files after each pass. I deburred the edge before filing. /geeking out.
That's actually not surprising to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
I think the last 4 new pairs of new volkls I bought were a VERY LITTLE edge high in the extremities, but they also didn't have the same bevel angle as under foot. It was obvious this was the case because using my base bevel tool took material off at the extremities but not under foot.
It is almost like the edge has rotated in a bit in those areas... and if that affects the base edge it should also affect the side bevel.
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I’ve had a very perplexing situation with my new Kendos. Skied them in low snow conditions in the Canadian Rockies during most of January where they got some rock damage to the edges and the bases. I took them to the main ski shop at Sun Peaks for a complete tune. When I took them out for their first run they were as close to being unskiable as anything I’ve ever skied. When I checked them with my true bar I found they were edge high the entire length of both skis. I took them to another shop to getting them reworked. They came back flat, but they still weren’t the skis I had been skiing and liked for weeks. They were impossible to drift on firm and the tails grabbed. Ended up having tuned again at a shop where I’ve been taking my skis for years to see if the technician could resolve the problem. No luck. Seems like they’re warped?? 1/2 bevel same as I have on my other five pair of Volkls. Thinking I would send them to Volkl to see if they have any insight. Not looking for them to spring for another pair. Thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
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I have had similar experiences several times. I now mount, tune and wax my own skis, but there are times when a ski needs a base grind. And when then happens you never know what the fuck you're gonna get back.Quote:
Originally Posted by swissbro
My Volkl M102 was the center piece of my quiver. Loved that ski. Took it to Chile last summer where it met enough rocks to warrant a full tune afterwards. Not the same ski anymore, and I live in a ski town full of "expert" tuners. Somebody else now owns that ski.
As far as your Kendos, I would have immediately taken them back to the original shop and let them try to fix the problem first. In my experience a good shop will cooperate. Those guys know bad tunes leave the shop sometimes.
still have one 184cm and one 177cm revolt 114 in the shop that we could cut a mag price for!
Has anyone seen/skied the Revolt 96s. Kind of intrigued by them. Are they modeled on the 114 or the121/104, ie more all mountain or more freestyle ish?
114 is the black sheep, the 95 is a narrow 104. Close to center with softer ends, more like a fat bash for lighter park rats than an all mountain freeride ski.
The "stated" factory settings on the website's FAQ are 1.4 base/2.4 side.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Y’all talking about tunes, you can do a lot on your own. Alpinoid, owner of slidewright, sells a lot of different options for doing edge work. Plus he sells the skivisions base tool along with his own inventions that fit to the skivisions tool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swissbro
What kind of structure did you guys end up with on your skis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beder
I did a full tune (1 base/2 side) on my M102's this season and I also found they were harder to turn afterwards. Had a second tune done and they were a little bit better, but still not as easy as when I first had them. They've been getting progressively better over the course of the season so my guess is either the structure peaks are flattening a bit, or the base bevel is slowly getting larger.
That’s very interesting…..thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Cork7 Belly Flop
Normal wear on skis will make them base high. If you’re doing edge work with skis that are incrementally becoming more and more base high due to use/wear, you will be incrementally changing your edge angles
Out of the wrapper, my M5, M102, and K108 were all a bit concave at the tail in the rockered area Since the edge-high area is past the running length, it doesn't seem like a concern, especially after I knocked it down with a file
Yeah, I don't know what's up with the new tune situation I have but I'm pretty disappointed.
Not in the skis, not in the tune, just that they were so good and effortless when not dialed in and now, after trying to perfect them, they tank.
I'm sure they'll come around but wtf?.
I've detuned the fuck outta them and waxed a few times to refill the base. I hate to dumb them down into submission as I've been enjoying the sharp edges but fuck man, grabby, overturny skis ain't gonna get it.
And yeah, we all have the tuning tools. Except for maybe the stone grinder.
Maybe the shop put a standard 1/2 on them and if the factory is using 1.4 base you might feel that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
The base bevel guide I use is cheap but will allow me to put a base bevel on in 0.5 degree steps.
If it were me I'd try 1.5 base on the whole thing and see how that feels.
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This is my thought, too. Shop tune reduced the base edge bevel (or made it consistent?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
Fwiw, i put a 1.5 base bevel (because i love them base bevels) on a m102 skied 4-5 days with factory tune and i took quite a lot of edge material off. It definitely wasn't going from 1.4 to 1.5 and producing as many metal shavings as it did. Mine were, like others have reported, less base beveled in the tip and tail than in the middle of the ski. I was definitely Pulling more metal at the ends than in the middle. My seat of the pants guess as to what the factory tune really was before my hand tune was something like 0.5-0.75 base in the rockered sections and 1.0 base in the cambered section
Thanks for the input team, I was kinda thinking along the same lines. I seem to have lost some of the lateral play in the ski, the side to side ease of release.
A tad more roll in the edges may help. I'll put some more base bevel on it here in a few.
I've been getting busy on it each day now and can't quite dial it in.
Even tho we've had cold dry snow the last week or so, I think the new structure pattern is too tight and doesn't let me release the friction point. I'm heavy 2teen# and leadfooted so a bit more aggressive cut might unleash me.
This whole discussion is very interesting. I experienced a similar decline in performance of the M102 after tuning to 1/2 specs (from the Evo guide) and also after shop tune and base grind, etc. Bummed me out. Eventually sold the skis because I could never recapture the magic of the initial performance. Obviously somebody who knows what they're doing could tune them properly, but it doesn't seem like Volkl is sharing the complexities of the factory tune. Like DJ said, I ended up wishing I had left well enough alone. Eventually sold them though. TBH I feel like I went through a similar situation with my M5's. Loved 'em at first but somehow lost the tune and couldn't regain it so sold. Fuckin' weird.
Same thing happened with me and the MFree 108. Just traded them and bought a new pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
My experience exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Somebody here must know the Volkl rep for the western states, who we could ask. Last year I attended the industry demo days at Snowbasin. Skied multiple Volkls. Those skis were making the rounds of demo days and had to be getting tuned as needed. Someone was keeping those skis in good shape.
I am one of the Pro Reps in the Midwest. I will try to get some answers on how the western guys are tuning the skis. I am still on the factory tune on my M102 and headed to Snowmass in 10 days. Might not mess with them til after, just give them a fresh wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beder
I’ve been maintaining clean 1 & 2 angles on my M6s, with no detuning, and haven’t noticed any decline in their exceptional performance from the “factory” settings. Some of you guys must be very sensitive. I have no issues skiing all over the mountain in varying conditions, and feel like I’d need to be doing back to back comparisons on hard groomers to appreciate anything more subtle.
I'm skiing 4k laps in about 7 minutes on 25% off piste and 75% on fast groomed at varying speeds, mostly SG radii or better.
4 or 5 laps in a row.
I hit the bases last night with a 1* base beveler, it's all I've got, and pulled off a bead of edge for sure.
They skied noticeably more politely today.
The shop has a newer machine so I know little about it. I'm assuming the base work is done before the edge work in the automated process.
Otherwise a subsequent grind would flatten the base bevel away.
And I assume a tech cannot manually pressure the shovel to insure a good bite from the stone grinder, as on older machines.
I hope your home edge tuning helps. I only have a single day my new boards, did many hot laps in mixed conditions, bump runs, and techie tree runs. I even found some rain crust exposed from avi control work. I am happy with the 1:3* that I tuned. My entire base edge may not consistently be 1* if some of the factory tune had a larger base edge angle. Really fun ski. No regrets yet about getting the midget length.
My experience with a stone machine is with an older wintersteiger (sp?). Fun machine. We could dress and redress the stone to give the spring or cold snow patterns. Occasionally the stone could get jacked-up and would take some aggressive redressing to remove the flaw. We did the edge work by hand after the grind; once the bases were flat.
Anybody know what the 100-yr anniversary ski will be? Sorry if that’s already been discussed.
More testing today produced a faster base and more predictability in the short swing turns.
I think I needed more base bevel prep and another full round of waxing. I'm sure it's likely to get them back to sweet spot but 'twas rather jolting to have such a change. Prolly pilot error based on some assumptions.
volkls on sale at TVS for 40% off.
191 m6 and m102.
^849 and 899 ^
Volkl specing a 1.4 base is intriguing, makes me want to experiment. it’s unfortunate the base bevel greater thano degree thread got sidetracked.
Another thing to check may be the bevels at the tips and tails. Apparently most stone grinders don’t bevel well as the ends turn up.
I had a 1.5-1.7 degree base angle on my katanas and it ruined them.
The skis would not engage the edges until way after the fall line, disconcerting
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FWIW skis rarely ever come at factory spec out of the wrapper (my M102's base edges certainly weren't 1.5).Quote:
Originally Posted by turnfarmer
And yeah, the grinders will stop before the tips/tails of the ski for both the base edge and side edge (you can actually feel a step in the sidewall where it stops). I took a 0.5 guide to my tip/tail base edges when they were new and my sharpie marks on the steel dissapeared on the outside first.
Has anyone mounted an ATK binding with holes at 25mm width on a V-werks ski with the 'H' shaped reinforcement?
I am looking at mounting a C-raider (cause I have a pair unmounted) and one set of front toe holes are 25mm width. The inner dimension of the plate reinforcement is 26.2mm supposedly. I am mostly concerned about being able to drill straight if the center is just off the edge of the plate. Seems like a bad Idea so I probably won't unless someone has experience to say otherwise...?