Rossignol Black Ops?

Gaijin, are you still on Renegades mostly for soft snow days??

Having owned the OG Renegade and the EHP in the past, I’d say those skis are legitimately faster in pow. The lack of camber and straight shape make them missiles, even when the entire ski is below the surface of the snow. Enough so that I had to adapt my technique in pow and turn more often when I used them.

But for my tastes, I do prefer the BO118 for resort pow days now. Interesting take on human size versus mount point above… I’m 5’9” 150lbs and have my 186cm BO118s mounted at -1 cm from rec (-3.5cm from TC).

As far as trampoline bounce Mario-jibby skis go: maybe Karl’s new pro model?? Never hand flexed or skied it but the Blister description is intriguing

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...k2-reckoner-kf

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Originally Posted by DGamms

Having owned the OG Renegade and the EHP in the past, I’d say those skis are legitimately faster in pow. The lack of camber and straight shape make them missiles, even when the entire ski is below the surface of the snow. Enough so that I had to adapt my technique in pow and turn more often when I used them.

But for my tastes, I do prefer the BO118 for resort pow days now. Interesting take on human size versus mount point above… I’m 5’9” 150lbs and have my 186cm BO118s mounted at -1 cm from rec (-3.5cm from TC).

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The Moment Chipotle Banana isn’t quite as much of a frictionless missile in untracked snow as the EHP and OG HALS Renegades but I prefer them for resort pow skiing since they’re so much more friendly and easier on the legs in chop and condensed snow. They destroy chop. But OG 196 Renegades are the best untracked powder ski I’ve ever used, more fun than Praxis Powderboards in my opinion.

I’m 5’7’’ and I weigh about 165lb now and I’ve got the CBs -1 from recommended putting them at about -6cm from center. Had the Rens at -6cm when I weighed closer to 190lb.

the point of the camber and weight is to add suspension, and to make a shape that is very loose and easy to ski at speed still be stable going mach looney regardless of snow condiitions (the same reason Volkl added camber to the R121 according to Markus Eder). Sure, they do - like other similar design such as MFree118, Koala 118 - require a bit of speed and skill to unlock said looseness. Yet to compare them to a full rocker designs skied in dry japanese, low angle untracked pow and mentioning trampoline as a design goal in the same sentence is missing the point entirely imho - juiced up or no. Sure, they will never be as frictionless as fully rockered ski in any snow condition, but then again they are not trying to be - so I am kinda unsure what nuance we are trying to unlock here?

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

camber + weight + supportive but still round flex pattern = suspension



ah, no - my bad. I do not think that they change drastically from size to size though, and yes - the tune has been off on both of my pairs as well. Detuning the edges makes a for a ton of difference. If they reviews state that they are unwieldy, the tails get kinda stuck or are hooky and they are generally a handful -> detuning the edges forward/aft of the contact points and resetting the edge bevel underfoot will likely be the ticket. I did so on my latest pair, and it transformed them from being unexplainably a lot of ski off piste to being easy as can be, yet supportive.

you can prob find them at killer prices now too, as they the current mountain graphic ski does not carry over to 24/25 - only the super black ops with neon colors do. BO98s are no longer in the catalogue. So you might as well just buy a pair, and sell them with a minimal loss if they are not what you hoped that they would be.

I prefer BO98s to SF110s in slush. A bit more nimble, lighter but still heavy enough, and easy to schmear around.

yeah, on3ps are even looser off piste in corn/slush, but that flip side is that the Rossis are better on hard snow - so pick your poison :)

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Outside of corn/slush the BO118s are everything I wanted the Kartel 116s to be. In fluffy, dry, untouched powder I think Kartel 116s did float a little better than BO118s, but if I know I'm skiing untouched I'm gonna pick out a wider ski (130mm+).

I've read some people complain about the BO118s performance in powder. I'm a larger dude mounted -3.5 from true center, and I don't have any issues. They are such beefy skis, they float well for basically being submarines lol! I find them about as good as any of the Billy Goats I've tried (save for Supergoat) in untouched, dry powder. I never loved BGs in "perfect" snow. I felt the Kartels were better in the fluffy powder, and BGs were more for resort powder skiing (mostly chop bumps where I ski) as well as thick/dense wet untracked or chop. In the thick Sierra cement, BO118s perform about equal to Wildcats and slightly worse than BGs. Which is very impressive because the Wildcats have that longer radius and were designed for Tahoe, and BGs are the best in that stuff. BGs obviously aren't even on the same planet as the BO118 or WC on firmer snow.

I think I am going to get some 101/118 Wildcats to directly compare to the BO98/118 next season. I'm craving Wildcats more than those $649 BGs or $599 Wren Pros in Factory Finds.

If I’m going to ski deep snow but I’m unsure of the quality, I grab my BO118’s. As others have started, they cover similar ground as Billy Goats but seem more versatile. Still love my RES BG.s, but they didn’t get skied much this season as those other skis are less of a compromise.


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I’m going back and forth on whether or not I actually want BGs anymore. The best days I had skiing 2015 191 and 2017 189 BGs were the deep chop days where they just steamroll over everything like hero skis, when everyone else is stuck on their mortal skis. BO118s do that just as well.

BGs crush dense snow, but so do Bodacious. Between BO118 and Bodacious, I feel like I’m covered for BG-conditions, and better prepared for firmer stuff.

I’m also afraid they lost some BG magic. When I look at the new shape, idk if it’s just in my head or not, but I feel like I’m seeing more of a normal shape/sidecut compared to 2015s and 2017s. Especially the 2015 191 tip shape, looks so different.

New 191 BGs seem like a no go. I don’t need more big powder skis like Supergoat that are too big for the chop bumps I ski on resort pow days. I mean I want the 191s, I wish I was flush enough to heli ski or I could ski big mtn, steep untracked lines more.

I’d have to go 186, and the sizing makes overlap worse with 186 BO118 and 186 Bodacious.. versus the 191. Those $649 Mangos are so baller tho. I have some Forza 3.0s that would look so good on them.

^^ being a forum dweeb myself, this is what I was wondering about a big cambered ski finally figuring out how to be loose.

The BG chat has faded, although still has a cult. The MFree108 crowd chimed in, but I always wondered if that chatter was short-term. This new BO118 chat is rekindling my intrigue for a playful, bouncy cambered ski that also drifts and trons like a Ren.

That combo seems to be what most manufacturers are aiming at. Almost a one-ski powder quiver. And we all know how hard it is to pull that off.

Marshall calling the R110 a baby of the Renegade and the MFree108 really caught my attention. So I ordered it. (as a non-new-snow supplement to my Ren.)

Is the BO118 another attempt at bridging these cultures?

I wonder how springy the R110 or R120 will be.

Maybe a C120 will be our next evolution.

Fun times.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DGamms

Gaijin, are you still on Renegades mostly for soft snow days??

Having owned the OG Renegade and the EHP in the past, I’d say those skis are legitimately faster in pow. The lack of camber and straight shape make them missiles, even when the entire ski is below the surface of the snow. Enough so that I had to adapt my technique in pow and turn more often when I used them.

But for my tastes, I do prefer the BO118 for resort pow days now. Interesting take on human size versus mount point above… I’m 5’9” 150lbs and have my 186cm BO118s mounted at -1 cm from rec (-3.5cm from TC).

As far as trampoline bounce Mario-jibby skis go: maybe Karl’s new pro model?? Never hand flexed or skied it but the Blister description is intriguing

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...k2-reckoner-kf

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Yes... still a Ren guy for fresh snow forests in JP. My ski is 10 years old now and while I really cannot fathom how a ski could be better in fresh forests, I do want to acknowledge that it is a decade old, and I may be fairly naive.

Fresh snow, my Owl/Hals ren is absurd. But... and this is a big BUT... I hate crud on that ski. No suspension. Ten years ago we really had to trade suspension for crud vs reverse camber for smooth fresh snow.

I'm on a legit quest to find a ski that melds both worlds as best it can. I'm guessing Heritage is on my path at the moment. But I'm legit curious if this BO118 is poppy as well as easy to surf... perhaps it reads as Best in Class at the moment with HL C120ST (or R120ST) being next up for a thread of reviews.

I can't recall any other ski on the market aside from this BO (and the HL) that has me remotely curious for bridging this gap in pow ski performance.

I admit it's a big ask. That's a big gap. And it's why I wait. "The answer is to have 5 pairs of skis." I agree with you.

Maybe the solution is a poppy wood (bamboo) and a poppy shell (carbon) and a flatish camber.

I don’t find the BO118s poppy. Maybe slightly more than flat camber, equally heavy Bodacious, but that’s not saying much.

They soak up most of the energy put into them, whether from me or the mountain and snow conditions. I sometimes find myself wishing they would “pop” more off stuff, since they are so confidence inspiring and catch-free I just want to throw a 720 lol (I cant, but BO118 make me feel like anything is possible)

I do find them very “sendy” though. They get going so fast, so quickly they can send far distances. They are great takeoff and landing platforms. I just don’t feel like I’m getting a lot of pop or height for tricks. They feel super jibby, and make me want to try new things so badly, but they aren’t actually the best ski for getting that extra rotation. Unless you’re a pro**.

All forgiven when you realize that lack of pop is why they have class leading suspension. Gravity Fed Led Sled

I can feel the camber on BO118s in their precision. It’s very noticeable, just not for much pop. BGs do feel more like a reverse camber ski to me, much less precise. My 2015 BGs and AeverSupergoats were way more poppy than BO118. 2017 goats were slightly more poppy than BO118s

BGs aint dead. The current iteration is on paper the perfect mix of pre-asym and asym BGs. Both main generations were freaking magical for hauling in dense snow, and based on my time on pre-asyms, asyms and last years post-asyms, all are very good soft snow skis.

BO118s feel pretty different when skied though. They are much more in the snow, whereas BGs just hatefuck their way through it. The best way to describe the differences is that the magic of BGs to me is slightly in front of the toe binding, whereas the BO118s magic is in schmearing the tails all over the place. Yes - that is an odd description when considering the pin tail design of the BG, yet the BG is a directional ski with loose tails while the BO118 is progressive ski that is loose. Both are heavy, both are freaking amazing.

And yes, sadly - I have too been considering if I really need the BG in the quiver. I prefer C&Ds in untracked (and in super dense snow(, and BO118s are as stated above more versatile while being magical for most conditions, so....

The roofbox is only that big ya know.

As I've mentioned in other threads - I am frankly surprised at just how much I am enjoing my time on BO98s, SF110s and BO118s (and C&D 189s).

I'm almost sure the 192 BO98s are my next ski

190 Wildcat 101s I think will be too stiff for what I'm looking for

Kid Kapow, it's AEV/Betel/Beetle/Velo. My real name is Vail. Where do you live again? Europe right?

I agree that the BGs feel more in the tip than pintail. And the BO118s feel suprisingly pintail in soft snow for 118-14x

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Originally Posted by forumskier

Where do you live again? Europe right?

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This is where I ski 98% of the time:
https://youtu.be/4B5fPxJRd6o

you are a strong skier. BO98s might not be the solution to all your narrow ski needs, but they are sure to a ski a ton of things well. I bought a pair of 180 Sender 106 ti+ to get a stronger ski between the BO98 and SF110, but - found the BO98s to be more capable, and looser and just more fun. Especially the section forward of the binding seems kinda underwhelming on the 106ti+.

You know how big of a ON3P fan boii I am, and I do so want to order me some ON3Ps, I just find it so hard to justify replacing said BO98, SF110, BO118 quiver - they just all ski so damned well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

This is where I ski 98% of the time:
https://youtu.be/4B5fPxJRd6o

you are a strong skier. BO98s might not be the solution to all your narrow ski needs, but they are sure to a ski a ton of things well. I bought a pair of 180 Sender 106 ti+ to get a stronger ski between the BO98 and SF110, but - found the BO98s to be more capable, and looser and just more fun. Especially the section forward of the binding seems kinda underwhelming on the 106ti+.

You know how big of a ON3P fan boii I am, and I do so want to order me some ON3Ps, I just find it so hard to justify replacing said BO98, SF110, BO118 quiver - they just all ski so damned well.

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Ahh yes, you’ve shown me where you ski before. Thanks for the reminder.

Interesting take on the 106Ti+. I have actually been looking into the 106Ti+ after I saw the 2350g/ski weight in the largest length, and read some reviews saying “big mtn” things..but maybe that’s all in the tail. Your reaction to the section forward of the binding sounds like my experience with Nordica Enforcers. Skis a lot of people found to be charger, but that I couldn’t rely on the tips AT ALL off piste (I’ve had softer skis I can rely on more, IDK what it was(hinge point versus consistent flex pattern?)).

I don’t need another wide ski, I need 98 and under so BO98 definitely should be the one. What now is hanging me up with the BO98s is I’ve been reading a couple of east coast US reviews talking about how they do better in soft snow and aren't the best for firm snow. I’m buying something under 100mm underfoot for the sole purpose of firm snow and low tide, so maybe I should be thinking about something thinner or different(like the more precise and better sized for me 186 Unleashed 98). I would like something shorter than the 192 BO98s, quite a bit heavier, and absolutely rips firm snow. Idk if it exists. Think 184 Head Monster 98 with a twin tip, or just a 20mm thinner all around 186 BO118, thats 2350g/ski instead of 2550. Now I’m dreaming.



For anyone looking, Slope Style in Breck has 186 BO118s for $469. He’s a mag on here, sometimes he takes off a few percentage points for mag deals.

Levelnine also has them for $469 with code extra15, which ends tonight at Midnight mountain time I think.

I’m probably going to buy a backup set of swamp 118s. They are too good to chance it. I have high hopes for the 95% same Sender Free 118s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forumskier

Interesting take on the 106Ti+. I have actually been looking into the 106Ti+ after I saw the 2350g/ski weight in the largest length, and read some reviews saying “big mtn” things..but maybe that’s all in the tail. Your reaction to the section forward of the binding sounds like my experience with Nordica Enforcers. Skis a lot of people found to be charger, but that I couldn’t rely on the tips AT ALL off piste (I’ve had softer skis I can rely on more, IDK what it was(hinge point versus consistent flex pattern?)).

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I think it is a length thing. Most people seem to find the 187 and 192 sender 106 ti+ to be a lot of ski. And to be fair to the 180s - I've done like five runs on them, so hardly a comprehensive review. I might have gone into it thinking that they would be more ski due to being told of people struggling with the 187s + I def need to ski them more to unlock their secret sauce. It could've been that I should have went with 187s, but the idea was to get something potent that was still nimble. I might have overthought it a bit - after all BO98s and SF110s are pretty damned capable for what they are.

re BO98s - they are great if you want something playful/loose that can also be skied hard. If you want a groomer zoomer or piste carver, well, then there are other skis that are better, yet the titanal underfoot together with a damp and pretty poppy construction still make the BO98 pretty damn solid on groomers. They honestly do all I need them to.

and to be clear - my quiver goal is to have as "few" skis as makes sense to me - so a 98-110-(116-)118-124-(124) resort ski quiver makes sense to me in that regard. I am not looking to bring super niche skis into it, but build a quiver of condition appropriate skis that do a lot of things more than well enough. I am a bit surprised that I have so many Rossi skis now to be honest, but then again - their combination of dialed shapes and construction using different materials to bring forth different characteristics is something I can appreciate.

I definitely would want the BO98s for off piste. Pretty much exclusively, except seeking out some park laps too. They would have to turn into my dedicated mogul ski for firm/low tide/refrozen spring. I need something to replace 2015 full rocker 191 Mantras that currently fill that role. The Mantras are very precise on edge, but super loose when not, and this combo is excellent off piste in weird firm moguls for me. On Mantras I can slow down and pick my way through huge refrozen moguls, or zipper as best I can when they get a little nicer. NEED my next ski to all do this as well, that’s exactly what I’m looking for.

I just want a little camber without getting rid of too much looseness, as well as a twin tip for messing around more. Blackops 98 and Wildcat 101s seem the closest thing for me.

Looking back, although I did really enjoy them for other reasons, Moment PB&Js (Wildcat 101 without dual radius) weren't quite loose enough when I wanted them to be in moguls, nor precise enough when I needed them to be on super firm steeps. Better in the park, but not as loose nor precise as M4 Mantra. If BO98s can manage to be looser than Wildcat 101s because of the softer ends of the tips/tails, as well as more precise underfoot being a Rossi*, they could work really well for me. *I’ve never loved Moment skis edge grip, except for Wildcat 118s, the widest lol. I don’t love Wildcat 108s edge grip. I’m looking for a lot more grip underfoot from my next twin tip, but also looser. Hard to find both in one ski like the full rocker metal skis have, but at least I’ve never been disappointed by the edge grip of a Rossi.

I generally still like very precise skis off piste too. I mostly ski off piste, so if I have enjoyed a set of skis, I’ve enjoyed them off piste. Loved Monster 98s/108s off piste, love all my Volkls off piste that I read the masses complain about being unforgiving off trail. A 184 Monster 98 twin tip that was slightly longer (186) would be perfect for me. Not loose, but now short enough that I can manhandle them around anywhere tight, and still stable enough for me. I can’t find any super beast twins like this ha, I guess expectedly.

A lot of this is confusing for me to type, because some sounds contradictory with me liking loose and precise in the same ski. But something does seem right with the BO98s, and I may have re-convinced myself that they are the right ski for me to replace M4 Mantras.

just mounted up these Sender 118’s.
Pretty much skied the last few pair of BO 118’s I owned on the line but decided to go back a couple cm on these. I know I know why the Solly Strives vs the usual Pivots.
They look saucy and I wanted to try a Strive 16. 240 grams a pair lighter than Pivot 15’s fwiw. This pair had some pretty Gucci individual weight numbers. Within 8 grams of each other at 2479 and 2487. Flex is strong AF. The tail and tips flex similar to years past but the fore body and just behind the bindings feel stronger or I’m just weaker now.

[ATTACH]494030


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Lookin good! I also wanna try Strive 16 to compare to STH2 16, for science!!

Levelnine has 186 Swamps for $440 with code MEMDAY20

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Originally Posted by forumskier

Lookin good! I also wanna try Strive 16 to compare to STH2 16, for science!!

Levelnine has 186 Swamps for $440 with code MEMDAY20

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Thanks man yeah saw a pair of purple Pivs via Cast early on but unobtanium right now. Strive 16 MN’s were 50 off at the ski Monster awhile back so rat holed a pair.
Those Swamps are a good buy with that code. Good plan in case these suck…hoping they don’t.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forumskier

A lot of this is confusing for me to type, because some sounds contradictory with me liking loose and precise in the same ski. But something does seem right with the BO98s, and I may have re-convinced myself that they are the right ski for me to replace M4 Mantras.

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yup.

Sure they will never out carve a mantra, just like a mantra will never out-park a BO98.

The titanal underfoot + general weight sure does help.

Not to build unrealistic expectations here. Blade Optics might fit the ticket too.

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Originally Posted by Crystal Skier

just mounted up these Sender 118’s.

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Originally Posted by Crystal Skier

…hoping they don’t (suck).

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oh they won't. Slightly lower swing weight with lots of mass, a loose shape and dialed construction sounds money to me. Though, BO118s are great in their current guise as well.

If the Sender Free 118s can reduce the swing weight feeling a bit, while keeping 95% of the same chop plow feel, that actually sounds pretty nice.

Crystal Skier, your SF118s at an average of 2483g/ski are not far off what most BO118s weigh. Both your skis weigh slightly more than the single Swamp that Bob weighs on the SkiEssentials video from last year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forumskier

If the Sender Free 118s can reduce the swing weight feeling a bit, while keeping 95% of the same chop plow feel, that actually sounds pretty nice.

Crystal Skier, your SF118s at an average of 2483g/ski are not far off what most BO118s weigh. Both your skis weigh slightly more than the single Swamp that Bob weighs on the SkiEssentials video from last year.

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The weights can be all over the map. I have weighed 4 diff pair of Sender 118’s. First pair had a huge discrepancy in weight 136 grams! Not a mis print. My source doubted me. Sent em back and he told me I was off by 2 grams they were like heavier on his scale. Short story made even longer…was sent a replacement pair within like 12 grams of each other really good numbers 2507/2519. Those ended up going to a really good guy in Whistler. The next pair was even heavier (did not know this in advance) but within like 4 grams 2544/2548 awesome but yikes those went to some younger legs. A few weeks went by and the absence of the new 118 was grinding on me haha and thought maybe I’ll get lucky…the weight on this pair I knew in advance before they shipped. Funny thing is I owned like 4 pair of BO 118’s since their inception never weighed a one. This is all NoSlows fault haha. Getcha a 10 dollar digital scale…or better yet don’t.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crystal Skier

The weights can be all over the map. I have weighed 4 diff pair of Sender 118’s. First pair had a huge discrepancy in weight 136 grams! Not a mis print. My source doubted me. Sent em back and he told me I was off by 2 grams they were like heavier on his scale. Short story made even longer…was sent a replacement pair within like 12 grams of each other really good numbers 2507/2519. Those ended up going to a really good guy in Whistler. The next pair was even heavier (did not know this in advance) but within like 4 grams 2544/2548 awesome but yikes those went to some younger legs. A few weeks went by and the absence of the new 118 was grinding on me haha and thought maybe I’ll get lucky…the weight on this pair I knew in advance before they shipped. Funny thing is I owned like 4 pair of BO 118’s since their inception never weighed a one. This is all NoSlows fault haha. Getcha a 10 dollar digital scale…or better yet don’t.


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noslow actually saved my arse by actually planting the seed to weigh that first pair…grateful. Was spooked by hand flexing the first pair as they just seemed much stiffer than I remember. All the Sender 118’s hand flexed the same to me with the only difference being individual weights. Other than the early years having a diff material in the mounting zone I am not sure if core materials have changed up a bit or not. Top secret stuff back then ya know haha.


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I just got my backup pair of Swamps in hand. I weighed them using the FedEx scale that only showed 0.05lb increments. One ski was 5.6lbs. The other was teetering between 5.45 and 5.5lbs at first, then solid 5.5lbs when I tried again.

Idk exactly where the scales rounding point is, but I'm assuming the lighter ski could be as little as 5.475lbs, or 2483g... and the heavy ski as high as 5.624lbs, or 2551g. Doubt the heavy one is more than 2530g, but who knows.

Mine definitely have a discrepancy, which could be upwards of 70g, but if I had to guess I'm going to guess closer 40-50gish. I'm not worried at all, but I might be if they were 136g different, now we are talking a quarter pounder! I usually get more worried when I see dramatically different camber heights. I got a pair of Armada TSTs a decade ago where one ski had no camber and the other a full cm. I returned because of that.

I would like to get them on a better scale to find out though. Ahhh, nothing like obsessing about ski weights during the off season.



I still can't believe no company is making any sort of a thin version of the 118s. Idk enough about ski design, maybe it's not possible? Or more realistically not enough skiers would probably buy them? You'd think enough would buy from here, newschoolers, reddit and SkiTalk, but I guess we all mean jack squat to manufacturers..

I'm kind of coming back to Poachers honestly. Whenever I hand flex 184 K2 Poachers, they seem almost what I'm looking for, just too much taper and rocker for such a thin ski. Something about how they feel in hand reminds me more of the BO118s, than the BO98s do. When I hand flex Poachers and the BO118s, they both seem like pro level skis, as they should they are both gold medal comp skis (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure BO98s rip too, but nothing jumps out at me when they are in hand. The length on the 184 K2 is about the same as a 186 Rossi. I've heard of some Poachers at 2150g/ski, and underfoot it's core profile is straight up beef city! One of the more durable skis out there, and again that core thickness is definitely something I can write home to Ma about! Poachers have the chops to win professional events under strong skiers hitting huge jumps, and Ski Essentials says they are precise enough that an east coast skier won't be disappointed in their edge hold. I had 184 Shreditor 92s and I liked them about as much as 187 Dynastar Menace 98s, maybe a little more. Poacher replaced the Shreditor 92, but is more of a competition ski as well as wider for all mountain use. I have a good feeling I'll like the Poachers, and they are being discontinued..

Bit of a mind fark and crazy rabbit hole to go down weighing skis. When they are big heavy skis like the BO 118’s 30-60 gram diff seemed per common in the past. The last few pair of Senders were very consistent and very close in individual weight. Good to see. Not sure what if anything they are doing different with their layup process. Just happy to have a pair and I’m 170ish lbs so not real big … anything under 2500 on these is great and being closely matched is a bonus.
A lot of old poacher and shreditor fans out there…


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My currently mounted pair average around 2530g/ski, and a very small discrepancy between them if I recall correctly. Noslow might correct that, he knows more than me about my pair lol, he weighed them for me when he got them for me for a steal of a deal shipped from Canada last year midseason (Noslow is a champion!).

I was around 220lbs for most of this winter. 2530g felt great for me, I wish a lot more skis were this heavy lol. I believe that's a decent bit heaver than 186 Blizzard Bodacious or 189 K2 Obsethed, and similar to 189 Pettitors, nice old school skis. Not even really close to my heaviest skis though (2700g+). The BO118s have an old school feel that I love, but I guess they were designed about 8 years ago now, so they kind of are old school. **When I say old school, I mean 10-13 years ago, not TRULY old school.

There has to be a pair of BO118s out there that's close to or even possibly over 2600g/ski. The great white Unicorn. I wanna try those and a light 2400g/ski pair of Sender Free 118s, to compare for science.

Loving those Sender Free 118 with the Strives. Great color combo!
That weight should be good and probably a hair lighter swingweight than a BO 118 at the same weight. They’d probably be similar in feel to my latest BO 118 set at 2445gr average.

Bet there will be more difference between different pairs of the Blackops 118 or Sender Free 118 than between those 2 models. Still lots of heavy models of SF 118 it seems and only ones that I’ve seen around 2400gr have been the original BO 118.

Felt I could tell a difference between the latest set and my old set that were 2520gr/2475gr and I moved back a hair(.25”) on the mount.
Forumskiers were indeed around 2530gr each and less than 10gr between left and right iirc.

Forumskier-You’ll have to go on Soothski.com and compare the flex patterns of the BO 98/BO 118/K2 Poacher.
BO 98 in even the 182cm is stiffer everywhere(similar tip/tail) than the 184cm Poacher and the 192cm even more so. The BO 118 is just stiffer tip/tail than the 182cm BO 98 but similar everywhere else. The 192cm BO 98 similar tip/tail but stiffer everywhere else vs the 186cm BO 118.

Think the 192cm BO 98 will vastly outcarve the Poacher but will be very forgiving in bumps like the BO 118. I’d use forgiving flex vs your loose description of what you’d get in the BO 98 in bumps etc.
Skis like a Prodigy 2.0 or especially Poacher with its increased taper and rocker will be definitely easier to pivot but will much less precision on edge than the BO 98.
Good mix of a Mantra type ski with a twin tip.

The 21 Faction CT 2.0 was your “Monster 98 twin tip” with its almost 2400gr weight in the 188cm/186cm tape length. They haul!
Even the 183cm/181cm tape CT 2.0 are 2300gr.

As the original Renegade reviewer I think I'm qualified to compare to BO118.

In a funny twist of fate, the last pow day of the season in St Anton on the BO118 was almost 10 years after I had a very similar day on the OG Renegade, on the the exact same runs (might have been their last great powder day).

Both with 3 feet of snow and dense. The day of the Renegades was maybe a little more upside down. I can still remember it like it was yesterday...

I would say the biggest difference between the two isn't the camber, but the shape. Renegades are straight with taper, BO semi-straight with no taper. Renegades ski sideways and BO rides the edge.

In practice this doesn't really change all that much about how you ski them. BO is still pretty straight and not twitchy or carvy, super easy to redirect, but they don't really drift.

Like that day 10 years ago, so many of my greatest renegade moments have been seared into my memory. That drift is heaven.

But what you give up in drift, you gain by having monster trucks under your feet.

I had to give up on the Renegades because in fucked euro snow, they were too harsh. EHPs got picked more, then the Kusalas basically replaced them.

Now, some of my new favorite memories with the BO are about pulling Gs across the fall line, and not giving a fuck how much speed I pick up. No need to break out of edges, just go fast and flow.

My thought about the BO camber vs the Renegade, in dense snow, it's like there is no camber. Fat tips, fat tails, easy flex in the middle, camber is not something I think about. The times where I caught a crust under the powder and hooked up would be the only concern, but that was more of a tune and ski awareness thing (also shape related). So you can think of a camber as an essential part of the "suspension", but I could abandon my old caveman logic, "camber? bad!"

Because they are so symmetrical, and the mount point is so forward, I don't think the Renegade has much advantage in the speed department. Pintails suck, plowing around like a bass boat with a massive outboard motor. Parallel to the snow makes you fast, and BO can do that. When the tips go under do the samurai sword Renegade tips help? Sure. But even in dense snow I wasn't feeling much snag with my BO tips. Even the Renegades weren't as good as the EHPs.

Like the others mentioned, they are not trampolines. I don't think you could have that incredible damp feeling and still keep a lot of rebound. But they do respond when you load them up. If you hit a pow bump at medium speed they would pop you higher than the OG renegades, at high speed the renegades might flex enough to best them.

What I like about the rebound is that it's easy bending, but you feel it. Like if you load the tails, the camber goes away easily, but it eases you into it. So when you want to use that loading to get back forward, it always available. The renegade you have to roll back to a set point before the tails start to load.

So are they better than the renegade? No. Yes. Maybe. But they have the same newskool freeride DNA, so it's not like you need to adjust too much.

Attachment 494178
Pucon, Chile - "Big Bang" Freestyle Fest - 2010. Note the white bases. Pre-production pair #29. This was the first (and only) pair of skis I've ever paid full retail for. 4frnt hooked it up early for the southern Winter (thanks Jeremy!)

Oh, and these where mounted in Chile which was a mega-fucking-mistake, and after the first mount blew out, they were mounted at -3 from TC and they ruled. Until they ripped out again motorcrossing under the Sublette chair (zen and the art of mogul motocross), then I got pair #87 which was just never quite as good.

Awesome write-up, JRainey. I appreciate the in-depth thoughts. Now, to put your imagination through an exercise in hypotheticals... can you imagine choosing the BO over the Ren in a Japanese forest of untouched snow where the majority of turns are drifting at speed?

I'm really splitting hairs here. BO seems like a cool ski, though.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Awesome write-up, JRainey. I appreciate the in-depth thoughts. Now, to put your imagination through an exercise in hypotheticals... can you imagine choosing the BO over the Ren in a Japanese forest of untouched snow where the majority of turns are drifting at speed?

I'm really splitting hairs here. BO seems like a cool ski, though.

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The renegade is one of my favorite skis and I’ve skied the BO a lot too. I would never take the BO to japan over the ren.

That’s my hunch.


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If I was dealing with deep snow where I wasn't really hitting the bottom I would say renegades. I don't even care if there's a track or two to cross. It's more about does the snow provide the suspension.

If you having to rally crud and luge tracks in and out of said deep snow fields, then I think the blackops would increase the percentage of the decent that was dreamy.

I don't really ski tracked out snow on powder days as I'm in early and out early, in a place with low competition. So I don't need a pure powder ski that's a crud destroyer. We are just generally dealing with harder base surfaces and a lot sluff debris in runouts. The rossis (SF110 and BO118) have really increased the comfort level when it's 5cm on top of that old sluff debris. But the crud performance of the BO was so good, I'll gladly ski it during the dryer times where I'm "milking it".

I would stay if you're looking for something more forgiving without feeling less substantial, the blackops are it.

I can't say this enough, they are soft in the strangest and best possible way. They hand flex stiff, yet they are super easy to bend while skiing (all the way under the binding), but you could ski through soft avi debris at 45mph and not even flinch (and hard avi debris and survive).

I had a blast reconnecting with the latest version of the Hoji this year, and would actually like to try the new renegade as they seem like real floaters. I need to remount my OGs if I want to ski them (GW and Longer BSL), but I think I might go for it for next season, not needed, but just too feel young again.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

That’s my hunch.


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BO118s are definitely not the skis I'm going to grab if I know it's deep untracked. The opposite. I grab them when I know it's going to be tracked, and turning into mashed potato piles. Or when it's soft, but not deep. I usually end up finding some untracked lines with them, and they do fine, but they aren't anything special in those conditions.

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Originally Posted by Crystal Skier

A lot of old poacher and shreditor fans out there…


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I'm now debating which 184 Reckoner to go with. If I like both Shreditor 112 and BO 118, would you recommend the old Reckoner 112, the new 110, or the new KF?

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Originally Posted by forumskier

I'm now debating which 184 Reckoner to go with. If I like both Shreditor 112 and BO 118, would you recommend the old Reckoner 112, the new 110, or the new KF?

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112/110…

will shoot ya s pm later. My KF’s were sold a while back.


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Just scored a pair of used BO118s with one mount and 9.5/10 bases and edges for $220. Pretty stoked.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Just scored a pair of used BO118s with one mount and 9.5/10 bases and edges for $220. Pretty stoked.

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Daaaamn! Nice score!

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Just scored a pair of used BO118s with one mount and 9.5/10 bases and edges for $220. Pretty stoked.

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Cowabunga dude!

man, I just scored a pair of the OG BO118 for 200 bucks - new and undrilled. I am not gonna lie - pretty damned excited just about now :)

Do I need them? Hell no. But it sure will be interesting to try them b2b with the swamps :)

Too bad they did not have any panther BO98 182s in stock...

Damn, nice! Gotta love summer ski scoring.

I finally gave them a proper fondling yesterday. Lots more camber and rocker than my Squads. Really curious to find out how these ski.

Anyone want to save the trouble of searching back through the thread for mount point advice?