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Damn, the Protests are looking dead sexy this year. Might be time. I'm already waiting on some HL's and the ski locker is rounding out, but there's always space for just one more.....
FWIW, the website got some housekeeping and graphics are all updated. Looks great. Keep it going, Keith!!
Seconded on the Protests. I'm really liking the move to all veneer. FWIW - picked up some Protests earlier in the year. New rocker profile is perfect mounted on the line.
This is literally my thoughts this morning. Just bought a pair of BCs this year, but I've been lusting after protests for about as long as I can remember. Might have to pull the trigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine
I picked up some 187 protests in 2019 secondhand to take to Japan. I might just have to buy another pair as a thank you for making such a badass ski.
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My thoughts exactly. When I chatted with Marshal and asked him if he'd considered partnering up with other brands, he brought up moment/on3p, but not praxis. Not entirely sure why.Quote:
Originally Posted by googledidoo
The HL shapes are very cool looking, and my only complaint would be that they're made in a country with, ahem, loose labor laws. I did buy a pair of HL skis though, so I can't really talk. Praxis partnership would be a good way to resolve this issue and ensure the skis remain bomber quality too. Likely at a steep price increase...
I agree on the website, it's outdated and hard to navigate. My understanding is that Keith is the one coding it, so I doubt it's going to get a big revamp anytime soon. One thing I don't understand is why there isn't a picture of the full length of the ski on every ski page. E.g. for the FRS, you can't see what the whole ski looks like, you have to piece it together from photos of different sections of the ski. Probably an oversight, but one that needs fixing as I've seen that for multiple stock skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by obi wan kenobi
OTOH, hard disagree on the topsheets. I think that many of the topsheets, especially in veneer, end up looking stunning. Current stock of MVP94, FRS, FRD and BC look amazing. And the two pairs of praxis that I have (both with veneer) look amazing too.
I can't think of another ski brand whose skis look remotely as good as praxis. I know it all comes down to personal taste though, people absolutely rave about the moment topsheets and I find them really ugly, so I'm obviously the exception. Shapes look cool though.
HL skis being made in China is why I'd personally never touch one. But no doubt some of their designs look tasty AF. A partnership with Praxis where HL skis are made in USA and with Keith's badass veneer topsheets would take that brand to the next level. And Praxis could sure use more volume to fill their factory. Both would benefit hugely!Quote:
Originally Posted by powder_to_the_people
I don't see On3p or Moment ever wanting to partner with HL. Both brands are already crushing it. HL wouldn't bring anything to the table for either.
Marshal or Keith, if you're reading this, pick up the phone and have a conversation!
Regardless of that phone conversation-- people unwilling to "ever touch one" coming out of China are clinging to a seriously out-dated philosophy. It might hurt a few spirited individuals to learn that China has upgraded their production capacity 10-fold in the last few years. This isn't 1990 anymore. They've learned. Both from a manufacturing standpoint and a political one.
I understand you don't like Peak Skis, and you'll never buy an HL. But it might be a good time to wake up and realize that they, in China, are very hungry to survive as a society. And they are doing their own due-diligence to kick ass at production and rebuild their reputation as a production country.
Made In China is going to blow your mind very, very soon. That populace, as a workforce, is hungrier than any other workforce in the world. By far.
And you're wondering why Praxis is struggling? I get it.
I want to support Praxis, but everyone in the room has got to recognize that China has 100x the people wanting to steel their production capacity. And-- they have the infrastructure ready to go.
*Edit to add--
I'll pay $200-300 more for a Praxis/ON3P/Moment factory build of a Marshal design. IMO, Neither Praxis, ON3P, nor Moment has designed anything that I was so excited for that I would pre-order. Think about that. "Pre-Order." I know they're bomb-proof skis, but I've been waiting to pull the trigger for years now.
That's the mix. HL designs are what I'm buying... along with my house, my car, my other shit. I'm not a budget buyer. I'm a life-long buyer.
And, Marshal knows how broke I am. Many of you do, too. I'm in a slump, if you will. But... passing up on an HL R110? Are you out of your fucking mind? If Praxis/ON3P/Moment had designed that, this would be a different story.
HL went super niche, with low overhead/pre-order. I applaud his model.
I have a conspiracy theory that MO might be willing to close shop tomorrow and still come out ahead. But I hope he doesn't. I have a few more skis I'd like to order. And fuck, if any US factory can build the HL skis I want, I'll pay more.
Maybe limited, exclusive runs are a possible answer for a trial marriage.
I like on3p's simplified line up. Nothing excessive makes it ez to choose what ski youre after. All those skis are in the praxis line up but there is more overlap and sometimes name changes within the szme model in different widths. If you know all the skis thats no problem but it may confuse potential new buyers. I prefer the construction and veneers of praxis.
There is no way construction, base material, and edge quality and width are remotely as good from anything in china. If 100% of the big brands cant come close china certainly doesnt. I'd consider an HL ski if they werent made in china, because china and i dont think their durability will compare. Im not super familiar with the HL lineup but when i scrolled thru they looked pretty traditional in mount points and profiles. I didnt see any versatile twins ,or something to get loose on, and not many shorter lengths in any width. Maybe i missed that model on my scroll thru or possibly theyre just not interested in those things
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Are we talking ww3 or sex dolls? because i only buy a new pair of skis like every five years.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Check out the FR110 & FR120ST if you want loose.Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Build quality on the four HL skis I have is top notch.
I have a veneer Protest (bubinga too!) and a Jedi Mindstick that I'm excited to finally get some time on.
No horse in the country of manufacture race. Praxis skis are so freaking durable and well made. I currently own 4 pairs, have owned a few other pairs and I haven’t managed to significantly damage any of them while skiing and I’m In New England and I hit rocks.
Thanks, ill check them out. Also i keep flipping back to the jedi ms. It does look fun. I read any report on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
For china skis durability, im just not sure how i can be convinced. Nice to hear your comparison and ill consider that in the future, but still im trying to limit my support of chinas regime.
Side note, i love my dynastar mfree 99(mounted +2) and there is a long list of mags foaming over mfree's and dynastar and no mention of durability. The no mention is a data point i cant ignore. Great ski but so ez to get core shots or scrapes, edges need constant deburring and sharpening and they slide slow af unless i hit the perfect wax daily. Its just a night and day difference between praxis and dynastar. Factor in the durability/lifespan and praxis is 1/3 the price, 10% of the maintenance, and extra ez sliding around the shitty little up hills and flat parts of the mountain, not to mention they ski amazing. Pretty sure i'd prefer to have a 178 of my old piste jibs , and i want to add a 183 mvp 108. Thatd be a perfect ec quiver atm with my gpo's and/or bg's
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Checked it out. Nice option, fairly close to the mvp. Hits most of the marks. Bamboo/poplar is cool, claimed super tough and fast base and weight suggests that. I think i want some camber though. Maybe a camber and a reverse option like wndr would be worth it? It be cool if Keith made themQuote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
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Hey Guys,
I think skiing is better with Keith making skis and hope he can weather the storm. Not sure how I got pulled into this conversation, kind of a bummer to be honest. Had plenty of fun days on the skis of his I have owned.
I really wish Keith the best. But I can't invest enough money to pay off my home mortgage into molds with someone that's teetering on the edge of insolvency to the point of outwardly marketing themselves as such.
Keith, if you are reading, hope you can keep doing what you are doing, and happy to chat if you want a sounding board on the business stuff.
Thanks for hearing me out.
-m
Edit to add: I am trying to justify to my wife that the amount of time and energy invested into Heritage Lab is rooted in even the vaguest senses of rationality as it is.
Edit #2: Really hoping that this thread can get back to stoke about Praxis skis and helping keep the dream alive over there.
The FR110 appears to do a great job addressing the issues with the 4frnt Devastator, the 184 and 194 sizing, which is the only other ~110 ski I’ve skied that I feel is on the level of the MVP for that loose but composed type of ski. I plan to get a pair as soon as I can bring myself to stop upgrading and stockpiling my surf fishing gear :facepalm:.
But I love taking the MVP on trips because having some camber helps save my legs in some situations and the ski maintains a ton of the looseness of a full reverse design.
If you like that reverse camber feel but occasionally miss having some camber then check out the MVP, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
Thats what im thinking. Mvp strikes a nice balanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Self Jupiter
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if you don’t own protests, you need to re-examine your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640
^ lolol!! Sig worthy!
Sorry you got pulled in. I don't recall how it happened, and I'm not interested in the research for finger pointing, but I think I speak for everyone in that the reason ON3P, HL, 4FRNT, Moment, et al. got pulled in is because we're all cheering for all of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
You're all our heroes.
Nothing against the big-box brands. But there's just something about the craft guys who take niche approaches to their designs that has us all hoping they stick around. We're just all rooting for all of you over here from our armchairs.
The fortunate ones on this board actually buy all of those niche skis, and not because they need new skis. I wish I were one of them.
I love supporting the smaller brands. I need a ON3P and should probably add a Praxis back in. The MVP, the BC and the Protest all look sexy this year. I really only need to fill the BC slot, but I hear that I need to own Prorests. Decisions...Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
A lot of us pre-ordered the Praxis Powderboards way back (2007) when Keith was getting off the ground......$400 was a smokin' deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
I have a walnut topsheet Protest in 192 and just recently pre-ordered the HL FR110.....super stoked for those.
you won’t regret buying a protest.
Oh man, I don't mean it in a "smack talking finger pointing perspective", but rather its a bummer there isn't a fit. He isn't setup as an OEM producer. It seems praxis needs to sell a bunch more skis at full retail, so building a small amount of skis priced at cost isn't helpful. Hoping he is able to re-establish stability for praxis.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Facts!Quote:
Originally Posted by theetruscan
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