PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I'm not sure I get these comments. Of course, you don't want to drill into Titanal/carbon fiber with a 3.6 and directly run a screw into it without a tap. Even with a 4.1 bit a tap is advised.

BTW, the tap I'm referencing is a standard 12AB ski tap - used for all ski materials.

My question centered on whether running a tap into a carbon fiber topped ski drilled with a 3.6 will rip or shred the fiber in ways that drilling with a 4.1 won't. My only experience of using an "undersized" bit with tap is into metal and it's been fine.

... Thom

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This is all about splitting hairs. Often good enough is good enough. But like any 'craft', best practices don't hurt and might help doing a better job. They're your skis and your ass and I would expect low probability of a major problem unless you end up with spinners.

Most skis should indicate what diameter is recommended for that ski. I would think that driving a 4.1mm shanked screw into a 3.5mm (or 3.6mm) hole in metal/titanal/carbon and other less 'bendable/compressible material' could contribute to 'volcanoing'. In more 'bendable/compressible material', the screw shank in the ski core of a 3.5mm hole, will compress the material slightly and might even provide more retention.

In woodworking, pre-drilling in hardwood, the bit diameter matches the screw shank. In soft woods, the pre-drill diameter is slightly smaller than the screw shank. Same basic reasoning, I think.

Welp, I've been mounting my own fucking skis for years and I've finally managed to fuck one up...

Drilled one heel screw about .5-1mm too far back. I can still get the heelpiece in, but it has to face slightly (a few degrees) to the right to get in with the wonky screw hole.

So when I click in my toes, the heel insert is slightly off from where it should be:

Attachment 268580

I can still click in no problem (no extra force needed or anything).

Is this going to be an issue? Should I be doing anything about it?

If it makes any difference these are Hagan Core 12s (same binding as ATK Raider) installed with inserts. They've got 30mm of adjustment so I could in theory pull the binding and install again 1cm forward - but I'd rather not start the Swiss cheese already if it isn't going to be an issue!

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Originally Posted by lazyasian

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I can still click in no problem (no extra force needed or anything).

Is this going to be an issue? Should I be doing anything about it?
....

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Short of testing it on the machine you can't really confirm its not affecting release values. If the Cores use a U-spring, I'd also be wary about flexing the two springs at such different tensions.

This is why most tech mounts recommend really focusing on dialing the heel in perfect, then installing just one toe screw so that you can align the toe piece with the heel.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Short of testing it on the machine you can't really confirm its not affecting release values. If the Cores use a U-spring, I'd also be wary about flexing the two springs at such different tensions.

This is why most tech mounts recommend really focusing on dialing the heel in perfect, then installing just one toe screw so that you can align the toe piece with the heel.

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Maybe master techs. I know a lot of techs that don't understand how to mount a ski without a jig (ie don't truly understand how the mounting process works)

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Originally Posted by lazyasian

Welp, I've been mounting my own fucking skis for years and I've finally managed to fuck one up...

Drilled one heel screw about .5-1mm too far back. I can still get the heelpiece in, but it has to face slightly (a few degrees) to the right to get in with the wonky screw hole.

So when I click in my toes, the heel insert is slightly off from where it should be:

Attachment 268580

I can still click in no problem (no extra force needed or anything).

Is this going to be an issue? Should I be doing anything about it?

If it makes any difference these are Hagan Core 12s (same binding as ATK Raider) installed with inserts. They've got 30mm of adjustment so I could in theory pull the binding and install again 1cm forward - but I'd rather not start the Swiss cheese already if it isn't going to be an issue!

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I think it depends on your risk tolerance. How much extra/less force will be required to separate those pins with them off 1mm? No idea. I'd probably ski them and find out lol.

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Originally Posted by 3PinGrin

I just run a 4.1 / 3.6 step bit for everything any more. It doesn't hurt if there isn't a metal/carbon layer and you're good if there is.

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Got a link to the one you use?

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Got a link to the one you use?

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It's the Armada 4.1 / 3.5 (thought it was 3.6), a couple options there.

https://www.slidewright.com/alpine--...drill-bits.php

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

This is all about splitting hairs. Often good enough is good enough. But like any 'craft', best practices don't hurt and might help doing a better job. They're your skis and your ass and I would expect low probability of a major problem unless you end up with spinners.

Most skis should indicate what diameter is recommended for that ski. I would think that driving a 4.1mm shanked screw into a 3.5mm (or 3.6mm) hole in metal/titanal/carbon and other less 'bendable/compressible material' could contribute to 'volcanoing'. In more 'bendable/compressible material', the screw shank in the ski core of a 3.5mm hole, will compress the material slightly and might even provide more retention.

In woodworking, pre-drilling in hardwood, the bit diameter matches the screw shank. In soft woods, the pre-drill diameter is slightly smaller than the screw shank. Same basic reasoning, I think.

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Yeah, CF is a funny material, which is why I asked, although it was a theoretical question, since everything gets inserts and I have the right bit and tap for that ;-)

I recall reading comments about mis-torqued CF forks on bikes, and the reported failures which got me to thinking about whether 3.6 + tap would stress the CF.

I should pick up a 4.1 bit in case someone asks me to do a conventional (no inserts) mount for them.

... Thom

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

This is all about splitting hairs.

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This is literally the splitting hairs thread, because really, it's just screws into wood.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

In woodworking, pre-drilling in hardwood, the bit diameter matches the screw shank. In soft woods, the pre-drill diameter is slightly smaller than the screw shank. Same basic reasoning, I think.

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Yeah I agree, and would add that 3.5 was likely chosen as a standard for non-metal skis to reduce the possibility of water intrusion.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I should pick up a 4.1 bit in case someone asks me to do a conventional (no inserts) mount for them.

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That bit that 3pin uses looks pretty slick - but spendy!

If it's only for 'just in case' or 'once in a blue moon', you can buy a metric 4.0 or a #20 (which is 4.089 mm) regular bit at your local hardware store.

Additionally, a reg 9/64 bit = 3.57 mm

@lazyasian, which is crooked the toe or heel? Because from that pic it could be either.

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll most likely try them out in some mellower terrain and see what happens. Maybe push forward pressure or release up a notch in an ignorant attempt to even things out.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

@lazyasian, which is crooked the toe or heel? Because from that pic it could be either.

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It's the heel. Toe piece is all in line (it's just the angle of the pic that makes it look off).

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

That bit that 3pin uses looks pretty slick - but spendy!

If it's only for 'just in case' or 'once in a blue moon', you can buy a metric 4.0 or a #20 (which is 4.089 mm) regular bit at your local hardware store.

Additionally, a reg 9/64 bit = 3.57 mm

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Good point. It's not as if I've ever drilled through a ski when using standard bits. Famous last words ;-)

... Thom

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

Yeah, those step bits are pricey, nice though.

I used standard 5/32 and 9/64 for years with a drill guide which worked pretty well but took a lot more time to set up (but kept me from drilling too deep). I don't even use the guide with my dedicated bit.

Attachment 268620

Can anyone explain the markings on the sidewall of these old straight Volkls?
Seems like they are recommending mounting within this zone. Why the wide range?
The distance between 1 and 12 is about 4cm.

Hmmm.Attachment 268932

When I started mounting my stuff, I put collars on normal drill bits. And while one has never come loose and drilled through a ski, I figured it was only a matter of time. I’m glad I switched. Good peace of mind. If you’re only doing 1 ski, i remember thinking 15 or $20 for a bit was ludicrous. Butttt that was years ago and countless skis since.

just drill thru a wine bottle cork and slip the bit in the chuck to leave only enough drill bit to drill your hole

I've had collars and duc-tape slip

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Originally Posted by lucknau

Look at these purdy thangs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...19f5e7874e.jpg

Now I need to go get some orange gear.

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Originally Posted by margotron

damn. fly. orange never looked so good.

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Just catching up on this thread. On the right skis those G3 bindings look so good. Binding porn - I did all these:
Attachment 268955
Attachment 268956
Attachment 268957

Not sure where to ask this so going in here:
Where are we on turning down dins for the summer?
Skied all day at 7 and was glad I didnt do anything dumb.

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

Not sure where to ask this so going in here:
Where are we on turning down dins for the summer?
Skied all day at 7 and was glad I didnt do anything dumb.

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What I do is...

If the spring cylinder is obviously metal (e.g. 916's have shiny silver spring cylinders in toes and heels), then I don't turn them down for summer.

BUT, if the spring cylinder looks plasticky, then I turn them down until that toe/heel is loose & floppy. Floppy results in zero spring force on the plastic, and floppy means there's no way you will click in without noticing. (E.G. Salomon 997 DIN=14 toes have black plastic cylinder, so YES I turn that down...but the heels on those have metal cylinders, so I don't turn down the heels.)

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Wondering if anyone in the Boston / N. Conway area has or has access to a binding release calibrater.

After years of mounting my own fkn skis I'm curious how some of them would torque test, especially since I am still on a couple pairs of old 997s.

Would love a couple hours with one to test the whole quiver if I could. Mostly out of curiosity, although also safety and whatnot

Happy to provide beer and company if you'll let me play with your tool.

Any takers??

Generally in this era, skis had a toe line marking and then you just mounted the heel to appropriate BSL. There usually was no midsole indicator.

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Originally Posted by gwat

Can anyone explain the markings on the sidewall of these old straight Volkls?
Seems like they are recommending mounting within this zone. Why the wide range?
The distance between 1 and 12 is about 4cm.

Hmmm.Attachment 268932

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by skimaxpower

Generally in this era, skis had a toe line marking and then you just mounted the heel to appropriate BSL. There usually was no midsole indicator.

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Pretty much Volkl and K2.
Volkl had the schuspitze(boot toe)
K2 had #'s that corresponded to bsl, which is what the schuhmitte(boot center)on these Volkls appear to be as well, which is a midsole line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwat

Can anyone explain the markings on the sidewall of these old straight Volkls?
Seems like they are recommending mounting within this zone. Why the wide range?
The distance between 1 and 12 is about 4cm.

Hmmm.Attachment 268932

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Try to get the midsole line at the ~apex of the camber and see where that lines up? Probably a little art and science on this one.

Just checking in to say that I taught my friend how to mount his own fucking skis and all is right in the world.