Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

Anon, yes, she has gone off the rails. Withholding your mail and fucking with the kids' heads is definitively off the rails behavior.

Aaron, you oversimplify, but I think you know you are doing that.

All this pontificating and oversimplification of the whys and wherefores of marriages ending don't do shit for those suffering through it. It's complicated, exhausting, heartbreaking, deeply life-altering, sanity-questioning, and no two are the same.

The fact that you or anyone else, or the world in general "grew apart" or aren't particularly suited to monogamy has no bearing on what others are experiencing and frankly, offers no comfort. So many here keep telling him that why he should be experiencing it the way they did. That's bullshit.

What people in his shoes need to hear is that they are NOT crazy, NOT going out of their minds, NOT acting like assholes, NOT doing the wrong thing and ARE worthy of hanging on to their self-worth which tends to get beaten out of you pretty hard.

They need to have their pain soothed and know that it will slowly but surely become less painful and some semblance of spiritual calm will creep back in to their lives.

Hang in there anon, and all you others who are suffering.

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Excellent post.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Ha.
I swore an oath with my eyes wide open and nobody forcing me to do it, and I am going to do everything in my power to live up to what I swore.

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this. was fortunate to swear that oath to someone who thinks the same. the -glup- almost 30 years since haven't been perfect. not by any stretch. but they've been together.

Anon,
You're right in the middle of the shitstorm, the time before you can start moving on and starting a new chapter of your life. Once you're out of the house and figure out how to be alone again you're going to be much happier. There's no way I could have stayed in the house with her after I found out just how long she had been emotionally involved with another person, a person that I had invited into my house multiple times since they were "friends".

Through therapy and talking to good friends and family, I'm at ease with my situation now. Once the initial shock wore off and I started being me again, I'm actually feeling relieved that it's over. I can trust my gut, my instincts were true about what she was doing and I wasn't, as she put it, dreaming it all up like a crazy person. Knowing what I know now, I want to rip her a new one but there's no point. Instead I'm going to become the best, happiest me possible.

Hang in there Anon, you'll get there.

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Originally Posted by anonalias

OK...so....maybe she's a little manic. Came home tonight, and the script had flipped from "let's be good friends. Give me a hug when you leave for the day or for goodnight. Are you sure you don't want me to stay here for a while? We could just hold each other....." - to - "our custody agreement does not work for me (we'd agreed to two nights/week each and alternating fri/sat/sun), we're back to a weeknight and every other weekend." and "you need to be out of here immediately. I need you gone."

I think she has too many voices feeding her shit for her to have any consistency, and she doesn't have enough of a center to find her own consistency. I think she has some reasonable friends/family, and she talks to them and we end up in a fairly good place, considering. ...and then she has some batshit friends, and, well, here we are.

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Sounds like my experience with a Borderline partner.

Iceman, yours is the kind of statement that pisses me off. No one here, most likely, swore that oath with any less sincerity than you did. I suspect most of us have, indeed, done everything in their power to live up to what they swore. It doesn't always work no matter how hard you do.

Love ya Iceman (even though you stood me up years ago in BCC ;)) and I am truly happy that your hard work has kept it together for you and yours. But.... you have NO fucking idea what anon or others have gone through to get to the place where things have no other path but to come apart.

Sure, some give up easily, but most don't. Certainly not the guys in here who wrote about their pain. I look at myself in the mirror every day and know, beyond a shadow of a doubt I did "everything in my power". I did it for years. Literally. I did it in the face of extraordinary circumstances and pushback. Even the friends who knew something was going on didn't have a clue about the full extent of it. I held my family together. By myself. For years. While being treated like shit. And no one else knew what was really happening, and to this day no one knows the whole story or how unbelievably dark those times were. And they wouldn't have believed it had I told them.

I swore to myself since I was 10 (nearly 50 fucking years ago) when my folks split up that that would NEVER, ever be me. I busted my ass to change myself, take care of my family, suffered unbelievably through it, and it finally came down to a matter of my own survival.

I am honestly glad that you guys who write these kinds of posts have found a way to keep it all going. I am envious of you. I wish I could have had that success, but the other side of the story wouldn't meet me at the table or stop the off the rails behavior. This sounds dramatic, but I was really concerned for my physical - not to mention mental - survival. I was, quite literally, left with no choice. And trust me when I tell you, that is the most heartsick conclusion a person ever has to face other than, perhaps terminal illness of one's self or a loved one.

So to all you "If I can do it so can you" guys, I implore you to stop with that stuff. We're happy for you. Really. What anon wants to hear is, "I'm so sorry you're going through that. If you need anything we're right here. Lets go skiing. You're not nuts. We know you're doing the best you can. Thats all we can ask or hope for. Your pals here at TGR are rooting for you to survive and thrive, and we know you will eventually."

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Originally Posted by iceman

Ha.

The way I look at it, of course there all sorts of socio-cultural causes for and ramifications of marriage. And maybe the whole institution's not a good idea at all, in fact I could make a pretty good case for that argument, as Aaron seems to be attempting to do.

But be that as it may, I swore an oath with my eyes wide open and nobody forcing me to do it, and I am going to do everything in my power to live up to what I swore. It's a tough road but I chose it myself. For better or worse and shit. But we all make our own decisions and I'm not gonna think any worse of anyone else for theirs, and especially when circumstances drastically change. Do what you gotta do. And so will I.

I often think of Henny Youngman's one-liner (slightly paraphrased I'm sure): "30 years I'm married and never once have I thought of divorce! Murder..."

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I think if you read what I wrote you'll see I'm cool with people doing what works for them and just tried to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, but whatever man. This shit's been on my mind a ton lately, I've been going over and over it because we're not in a very good place here in this house, so maybe it came off wrong. If so, sorry.

Me, I just fuck 'em and leave 'em.
There was one(?) unintended kid, along the way, but she's okay. Life's good.

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I am so sorry things are challenging at your house. We know it sucks to be there. Terribly painful.

Thing is, again, we all (me too) need to stop arguing about why or who's at fault when someone says they're hurt. The world has too much of this. It's becoming a more dominant theme in society than I've ever seen in my life. It sucks.

Anon is in pain. Don't give him advice or tell him how strong you (the collective 'you' is what I mean here) are or how hard you've worked.

Just send him massive vibes and love. Iceman, to you I say, I'm so sorry you're going through that. If you need anything we're right here. Lets go skiing. You're not nuts. We know you're doing the best you can. Thats all we can ask or hope for. Your pals here at TGR are rooting for you to survive and thrive, and we know you will eventually.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I think if you read what I wrote you'll see I'm cool with people doing what works for them and just tried to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, but whatever man. This shit's been on my mind a ton lately, I've been going over and over it because we're not in a very good place here in this house, so maybe it came off wrong. If so, sorry.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I think if you read what I wrote you'll see I'm cool with people doing what works for them and just tried to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, but whatever man. This shit's been on my mind a ton lately, I've been going over and over it because we're not in a very good place here in this house, so maybe it came off wrong. If so, sorry.

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You should probably just keep suffering in misery until you die, it's not like this is your only chance at life.

Well maybe it isn't, who knows.

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

Don't give him advice or tell him how strong you (the collective 'you' is what I mean here) are or how hard you've worked.

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First of all, he posted;
second, we can do what ever the fuck we want, and so can he; and
finally, not one person even intimated any such, "if I can do it so can you" shit.

So calm your tits the fuck down, or go over to his house and have an empathy party.

As for Ice, the house can't be that bad.

Muchas love to Anon. And from his posts, I think that he feels that from us. Of course this is the Padded Room, so the love naturally comes with a big helping of ridiculous. It's how we roll here.

And I've always got Ice's back. Who doesn't?

Pease on!

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Originally Posted by iceman

Well maybe it isn't, who knows.

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Well, I'm not sure so I'm going for it.

Hey Anon,

Come to BBi@Bozo this winter. Free lodging on my sofa.

yeah so just an observation

The most sanctimonious are usually the ones that fall the furthest when they eventualy do fuck up

I'm pretty sure all this bulshit is covered in the bible which I have not read and didn't that guy in the bed sheet say something about not throwing stones ?

This is a solid thread with lots of differing opinions, all of them worth considering IMO.

I think there is such a thing as a successful marriage followed by a successful divorce. Both my older brother and sister were in 25+ year marriages, had/have awesome kids, and divorced when the kids were grown and gone. No lawyers involved in either divorce, they just went through some sort of arbitration and it was mostly amicable. They still get together with their exes occasionally for family events.

I guess you can say they didn't keep their death-do-us-part vowes, but the relationships ran their course and they don't have any real regrets. And they both seem very happy at this stage of their lives.

A. You're incorrect.
B. Angry much?

My tits are fine thanks. Maybe a little saggier than they once were. Thanks for the kind words though.

How do you know how bad it is at Ice's house? This is exactly the kind of statements I'm talking about. Presumptive and inappropriate.

No one knows shit about someone else's experience. Sounds like he's suffering or he wouldn't say it. Maybe offer some support instead of presuming you know what's going on with him. But by all means, please do whatever the fuck you want. Because, you know, that attitude doesn't have anything to do with why people are in these positions. Go for it.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

First of all, he posted;
second, we can do what ever the fuck we want, and so can he; and
finally, not one person even intimated any such, "if I can do it so can you" shit.

So calm your tits the fuck down, or go over to his house and have an empathy party.

As for Ice, the house can't be that bad.

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

A. You're incorrect.
B. Angry much?

My tits are fine thanks. Maybe a little saggier than they once were. Thanks for the kind words though.

How do you know how bad it is at Ice's house? This is exactly the kind of statements I'm talking about. Presumptive and inappropriate.

No one knows shit about someone else's experience. Sounds like he's suffering or he wouldn't say it. Maybe offer some support instead of presuming you know what's going on with him. But by all means, please do whatever the fuck you want. Because, you know, that attitude doesn't have anything to do with why people are in these positions. Go for it.

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Dude, you're wound pretty tight

For the record it's not that bad here. I mean the bitch is crazy, sure. And sometimes it gets to me, yes. But I'm not exactly a prize myself so hey. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Did you ever get the fax working for her?

Fortunately for me, my wife doesn't fax.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I often think of Henny Youngman's one-liner (slightly paraphrased I'm sure): "30 years I'm married and never once have I thought of divorce! Murder..."

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To quote an old, Italian floor broker on the Pacific Stock exchange I once knew.

“If I’d murdered my wife the first time I thought about it I’d be out of jail by now”


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Not really. I'm just tired of entitled, self absorbed, presumptive, un-compassionate, superior, "I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want" behavior. It causes people pain and is probably at the root of most of the problems people have written about in here. Yet people just keep tossing it out there.

How my suggestion that expressing compassion to someone who's having a rough time instead of giving them inapplicable advice = wound pretty tight is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by AaronWright

Dude, you're wound pretty tight

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Originally Posted by iceman

For the record it's not that bad here. I mean the bitch is crazy, sure. And sometimes it gets to me, yes. But I'm not exactly a prize myself so hey. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

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And stop falling on your head.

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

Not really. I'm just tired of entitled, self absorbed, presumptive, un-compassionate, superior, "I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want" behavior. It causes people pain and is probably at the root of most of the problems people have written about in here. Yet people just keep tossing it out there.

How my suggestion that expressing compassion to someone who's having a rough time instead of giving them inapplicable advice = wound pretty tight is beyond me.

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You've missed the(my) point entirely. I don't really know you but the behavior you describe in your first paragraph might be why you find yourself in this fragile emotional state. Men, myself included, are pretty clueless about their behavior.

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Not really. I'm just tired of entitled, self absorbed, presumptive, un-compassionate, superior, "I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want" behavior. It causes people pain and is probably at the root of most of the problems people have written about in here. Yet people just keep tossing it out there.

How my suggestion that expressing compassion to someone who's having a rough time instead of giving them inapplicable advice = wound pretty tight is beyond me.

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Plenty of people bring a pile of shit upon themselves. That said, I do a lot better just thinking that life is hard for everyone. Bad things happen to good people all the time. I don't know if compassion is the right word, but I think we'll all be better of we just admitted that we don't have all the answers. I'm over people keeping score, ranking each other, and hypocritically justifying their own behavior. We all all imperfect and we just need to come to terms with that. Get up everyday and focus your energy on being the best person you can be.

Best wishes to all of you battling right now. Any if your not, you will be so count yourselves lucky and lend a helping hand.