Good stuff, TW.Quote:
Originally Posted by topwater
2.4 miles of steep downhill sounds pretty wicked. Particularly on the end; "please feet, please land on terra firma when I expect you to!"
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Good stuff, TW.Quote:
Originally Posted by topwater
2.4 miles of steep downhill sounds pretty wicked. Particularly on the end; "please feet, please land on terra firma when I expect you to!"
smoking crack will do that to you..Quote:
Originally Posted by mrryde
I just fell in love with the pictures of that course. amazing.
regarding difficulty among these things someone posted this on the ultra listserv, i'm not sure how much credit we should give it, but it was interesting.
******************************************
Ever wondering about the relative difficulty among the 100 mile races?
Between an Ironman and 100 mile ultra? half Ironman vs. 50 milers?
Here is an analysis I have done using the data collected
in the RealEndurance.Com database.
The percentage is benchmarked against Western State 100.
This may be a useful tool for those have a particular time
goal in the 100 mile race, and want to use other event to gauage
their training progress.
A general trend can be observed below:
From 50 km to 100 mile, factor is 4 to 6.
From 50 mile to 100 mile, factor is 2.5 to 3.5
-------------------
Relative Event Finish Time to Western States 100 Mile .
Sample Criteria:
Same person completed both the event in the list and WS100 in the same year.
The relative percentage is averaged over the samples.
Dist Samples Event
100m 18 161.3% Hard Rock 100 Mile
135m 44 158.7% BadWater Ultra Marathon
100m 19 131.6% HURT Trail 100 Mile
100m 355 119.0% Wasatch Front 100 Mile
100m 12 112.4% Bear 100 Mile
100m 30 111.1% Massanutten Mountain Trails 100 Mile
100m 240 108.7% Angeles Crest 100 Mile
100m 4 107.5% Superior Sawtooth 100 Mile
100m 24 106.4% Cascade Crest 100 Mile
100m 365 104.2% Leadville Trail 100 Miles
100m 11 101.0% San Diego 100 Mile
100m 6189 100.0% Western States 100 Miles
100m 44 92.6% Rio Del Lago 100 Mile
100m 5 90.1% SULPHUR SPRINGS 100 Mile
100m 10 87.0% Mohican Trail 100 Mile
100m 55 87.0% Arkansas Traveller 100 Mile
100m 69 87.0% Old Dominion 100 Mile One Day
100m 11 86.2% Javelina Jundred 100 Mile
100m 233 84.7% Vermont Trail 100 Miles
100m 7 84.0% Heartland 100 Mile
100m 5 82.6% Kettle Moraine 100 mile
100k 13 82.6% HURT Trail 100k option
100m 4 80.0% Old Dominion 100 mile Memorial Day
100m 31 80.0% Umstead 100 Mile
100m 82 79.4% Rocky Raccoon 100mi
140m 4 71.9% IronMan CoeurdAlene
140m 3 71.4% IronMan Canada
100k 19 60.2% Where's Waldo 100K
200m 4 59.2% Mt Tam Double Century 200m
140m 9 57.5% IronMan Wisconsin
100k 10 51.5% Bandera 100km
140m 10 50.3% IronMan USA Lake Placid
50m 95 47.8% Zane Grey 50 Miles
100k 626 47.2% Miwok 100K
100k 11 46.1% Kettle Moraine 100 km
140m 3 44.6% IronMan Hawaii World Championship
140m 9 44.6% IronMan Florida
52m 192 39.7% Sierra Nevada
100k 95 39.5% Ruth Anderson 100k
50m 46 38.5% Crown King Scramble
50m 91 38.3% White River 50 Miles
50m 20 36.9% Tahoe Rim Trail 50m
50m 48 36.9% Run on the Sly 50m
50m 283 36.8% FireTrail 50 Miles
50m 212 36.5% Nugget 50 Miles
50m 299 36.5% Quicksilver 50 Mile
50m 12 36.1% McNaughton Park Trail Runs
50m 194 35.1% Silver State 50m
50m 324 34.6% California 50 Miles
50m 4 34.0% Mt Hood PCT 50m
50m 28 33.4% McKenzie River 50k
50m 1658 33.4% American River 50 Miles
50m 106 33.3% Cow Mountain 50 Miles
50m 23 32.7% Umstead 50 Miles
50m 150 32.7% Avalon 50 Miles
50k 199 32.4% Silver State 50k
50k 41 31.8% Baldy Peak 50k
50m 12 31.5% Rocky Raccon 50 Miles
35m 24 31.2% Santa Barbara 9 Trails 35 Mile
50m 290 30.5% Jed Smith 50m
50m 102 30.2% Helen Klein 50m
50m 15 29.0% Ruth Anderson 50m
36m 3 28.2% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 31 28.2% Tahoe Rim Trail 50k
38m 13 27.4% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 254 23.8% Ohlone Wilderness 50K Trail Run
71m 13 23.4% WildFlower Long Course Triathlon
71m 9 23.1% California Half Ironman
34m 20 22.6% Peterson Ridge Rumble 60k
50k 6 22.5% Bandera 50km
50k 57 22.3% Run on the Sly 50 Km
50k 152 22.1% Golden Gate Headlands 50k
28m 406 22.1% Quad Dipsea
50k 88 21.9% McDonald Forest 50K
50k 80 21.6% Crown King Scramble
50k 16 21.0% Bulldog 50K Ultra Run
50k 35 20.9% Chuckanut 50k
50k 12 20.7% Siskiyou Out Back 50K
50k 340 20.6% Skyline 50k
50k 197 20.2% Quicksilver 50K
50k 870 20.0% Way Too Cool 50k
50k 39 19.8% Hagg Lake Trail Runs
50k 21 19.4% McKenzie River 50k
50k 10 18.6% Ruth Anderson 50k
50k 88 17.7% OTHTC High Desert Ultra 50k
50k 8 17.2% Salem Lakeshore Frosty Fifty Km
50k 268 17.0% Jed Smith 50K
50k 23 16.9% Helen Klein 50k
45m 9 13.8% Santa Barbara Long Course Triathlon
Knowing that IMLP has more elevation loss than IMCdA, IMCanada, and IMWI combined, I fail to see the veracity of this list. Also, where is Ironman Lousiville?!??!Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
since it is based on a survey of people who've actually completed the races, and who've also done western states in the same year, and on their opinions on relative difficulty, I would give it a little more credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip4All
The reason IMKY is omitted is nobody's done it yet. wee..
It also doesn't take into account the weather or other conditions at a given race in a particular year. Western States in 95 was way ("way" as in way the fuck) tougher than it was in 91 or 97.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip4All
Think of all the human variables at play. Someone coming back from injury, having a bad day at one race, but killing it in another. There are people who compete in numerous events and may do better earlier in the year than later.
That list may be somewhat accurate, but it's pretty impossible to glean anything useful from it.
That guy really abused the way-back machine to get some of his data. A few of those ultras are no longer held. Cow Mtn, for instance, disapeared back in the 80s.
EDIT- No, Steve. No opinions, just finishing times. I bet a people's opinions survey would look differenter
makes sense. looks like he tried to get the largest sample of data possible, to include as many years as possible.. I suspect that the more data he gets, the more anomalies like bad weather in a given year will be ironed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
at any rate, i think it is interesting, not only as an attempt to compare race difficulty, but also as an exercise in data mining.
and as inaccurate as it may be, it's probably the best thing we've got..
Perhaps the only one on the treadmills, but if you're looking to get outside, morning runs in red rock are quite nice. There are a lot of fairly flat trails and it's cooler at higher elevations.Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
I'm getting anxious for it to cool off here so that I can run outside after work. I really can't make myself get up at 5.
So, once again, I lost count of the number of 800s that I did at the track. Anybody recommend a watch that has a very simple face, specifically showing overall time, number of laps, AND current lap time?
I have a Reebok heart rate monitor that doesn't quite show all I need at the same time; I prefer to see my current lap time in big numbers and the overall time in smaller numbers.
PS - thanks, WnL, I'll see how easy it is to escape the strip for Red Rocks Canyon! Hopefully, I'll be able to get running some time sans treadmill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
Timex Ironman?
Also running in 90 degree heat sucks monkey balls.
Running in 110 degree heat, 20% humidity sucks even more. It's impossible to carry enough water.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrryde
yeah the heat index was about 106 here...ugggQuote:
Originally Posted by wandering, not lost
Congrats to her, i was actually at the second water station today helping out. And for future refrence my drive way is perfect parking for this event so if anyone ever wants to shoot me a pm and you can park there.Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaskier
Just got back from the Jupiter Peak Steeplechase (base of Park City to Jupiter Peak and down, 16 miles, ~4k total vert), great run!
Finished in 2:29.24, quite a bit faster than I was expecting. 27/150ish overall, 9th in the 20-29 group. Real confidence booster, I am really liking my chances of breaking four hours in the Mid Mountain Marathon in four weeks.
Great course (except for the loose, super steep and shitty scramble the last few hundred vert to the peak), felt great the whole time. Resisted the urge to go out too fast during the mass clusterfuck start and ended up picking people off the whole way, never got passed. Now enjoying a beer and in dire need of a shower :D
Mrs. Montanaskier was 37th overall and 11th in her division. Posted a 1:37 a PR for a half!!!! Next up is the Snowmass to Aspen half in September.
Great job! Sounds like a pretty wicked run. Holding back at the beginning is hard to do, yet so worthwhile. And like you said, getting off slow and picking off people at the end is waaaay better than starting fast and getting passed (regardless if you finish in the exact same time!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Very impressive run! Drop her yet another congratulations from the collective! Any more marathons upcoming? You guys coming out to Boston again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanaskier
Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=92044
today I completed a goal of running for 21 consecutive days.
the goal was to establish a habit.
the result was I hate running and will never run again.
-steve
(ps at least until sunday)
why do that. junk miles are ok in my book, but recovery days are equally important. I have been Spinning and Swimming on my non running days and by body has thanked me.
Oh snap... sorry dude! I had injury issues working up to my first marathon last year. IT Band was causing me nasty knee pain and I didn't figure out what it was until it was too late... led to some issues in the race. This year, I know to do prophylactic stretching to avoid a recurrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I haven't even heard of half of those things that are cited on the running board as injuries, so now whenever I have the slightest tweak of something, I become paranoid.
Good luck and heal up.
i did it to try to establish a habit of running.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrryde
i've been ok with recovery, although I had to seriously ramp down my daily mileage this week because i was starting to feel a tad overtrained..
I just kind of got sick of the daily grind. These past few days I went out just to not break the streak, and each day kind of sucked.
looking forward to a day off tomorrow.
thinking about something kind of big next week - details to come.
i am doing a 14 mile trail run tomorrow, that will be big enough for me
Looks like next year will have some fun races. First the RD for the Jay Challenge sent out an email saying the next year he will be putting on a 7K river run. And apparently in Pittsfield Vermont this 200 miles :eek:
Quote:
It gives me great pleasure to announce to you that the first annual New England 100 Mile Endurance Run will take place in 2008. We have 2 other exciting races piggybacking on this event. One is the 50K option for anyone looking for the shorter distance. And the other is what we're considering to be one HELLACIOUS race... as we offer a 200 Mile Option. Myself and Andy Weinberg (McNaughton Park) are your passionate race directors.
We are currently working on pinpointing the course and attaining all of the necessary permits. I do want to extend some information to the running community... so that you all can begin planning your 2008 race and training schedules.
The race will take place in Pittsfield Vermont which is about 10 Miles North of Killington along Route 100. We hold various events here each year which include a Snowshoe Marathon and a June 50 Miler for runners.
We're aiming for Late October/Early November for a date. Yes...I know there is the possibility of snow and COLD. COME PREPARED, we run rain, snow, sleet or shine. We also need to wedge our event between 2 big hunting weekends in the State of Vermont. Once we firm things up, we'll let you know and open registration.
I'm currently working on the course. We are planning to have a LOOP course with loops of either 25 to 30 miles. 100 Milers are also likely to climb around 20,000' of elevation and descend as much as well. 200 Milers will run the SAME course.. with over 40,000' of elevation gain and loss. You WILL cry..
The reason we have chosen a loop course is because of a variety of variables. We really want to keep everyone in close so we can have better control over any possible emergencies given the weather, terrain and any medical issues. Whatever we do come up with for you folks.. I'm certain you will love. If anyone is interested in running in Pittsfield with me in the coming months and spring/summer 2008.. please get in touch with me. Would love the company and give you a glimpse of the area.
We look forward to seeing many of you in Vermont next year for this amazing event. We really do hope some of you come challenge yourselves on the 200 Mile course...
Yours in Running (and craziness)
Sherpa John
Oh good god! That is insane. There will be, what, 3 people running it? Isn't Vermont 300 miles long?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerman
Did 16 miles in 2 hours yesterday... something liberating about running in the rain! It seems that all the runners in my town were out as well. Actually, when I started it was perfect for running... maybe a light, light drizzle, overcast and cool.... but by the time I finished, it was a nice steady rain.
My weekly running fitness question:
So, it seems when I finish my runs lately (longer runs specifically), my digestive tract/stomach is in knots... I visit Mr. Bathroom often and generally feel like I need to curl up in the fetal position. I'm running well and feel fine on the road... it's only when I get in do I start to feel crappy. All I was thinking would be that I should do more core workouts... anybody??
What do you eat and/or drink during these long runs. How hot was it?
Drink water during the run; generally don't eat anything during the runs but have a full breakfast a few hours prior and a banana during the "in between" hours. Perhaps I should bring something to eat on the run? As mentioned either earlier in this thread or in another thread, I do use the Clif Bar Shot Blocks on longer runs (that said, I guess 16 miles should have qualified as longer). Temp was actually perfect yesterday... low to mid 60s, drizzling.. no sun. Two weeks ago for the NYC 1/2, had it happen as well... cool to start, but warm by the finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
edit: co-worker said first modification should be to drink more water while running; if you rule that out as a cause, then look towards something else.
If that. Last year 3 people attempted to solo the Wasatch Back (Logan to Park City, 176 miles). One guy dropped out after about 70 miles with really bad cramps, but the other two finished...in 46 hours :eek: Apparently they experienced some pretty wild hallucinations along the way but still trucked on. No one attempted it this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
I would probably switch from water to something with some sugar and electrolytes (gatorade, powerade, accelerade, etc.), just drinking more water sounds like a recipe for water intoxication. Shot Blocks/Gu/etc. are good too, and I also like to cut up energy bars into bite size pieces and pop a piece or two periodically. As a general rule I bring calories along on anything longer than 10-12 miles depending on the strenuousness of the route.Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
Maybe you're eating too much and that's why you're in knots and why your GI system is trying to expel everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by road trip
If I run mornings, I usually don't eat or eat very little (i.e., a bagel or a jelly-filled dougnut. I'll carry a Cliff Bar during the run.
For 16 or more miles, I'll also have an electrolyte solution rather than water, or a bottle of erectolyte and a bottle of water.
at least two on the list have already responded with enthusiastic affirmatives to the 200-mile option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
with a 60-hour time limit..
40,000 vertical feet.
oof..
-steve
how did it go?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrryde
holy crap, 200 miles. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerman
I leave for IMLOU on Thursday morning.
what's everyone's 2008 race schedules look like?
Mine is shaping up, so far it's looking to be:
March- Harriman tris in NY
April- either Paris marathon or Nashville marathon
June- Mooseman 1/2iron in Lake Winni NH
July- Ironman Lake Placid
might throw in a longer run (50k? 50m?) depending if I get coach approval. I'm starting with a new coach for next year which I am excited about... she seems more "basic" and less of the frou frou V02 max etc stuff that I don't really utilize with my current coach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanDip4All
yup. vermont 50-mile ultramarathon in sepetember 2008 (the one that runs in conjunction with the 50-mile mountain bike race that always has a few maggots participating.)
your coach *has* to let you do it. under duress, if necessary.
any other maggots interested?
there's a 50k (31 mile) option too..
-steve
also, one thing that could be cool is to pick a "maggot race" for '08 and we can all plan to run it together and meet up... and of course go drinking afterwards.... :D
there seem to be a lot of people in this thread from the eastern seaboard... any ideas? maybe something in May? not sure if enough people would want to do a tri, but we could do a marathon, or half-mary, or something....
I'm doing the 50K this year and maybe to 50M next year. I also may do the Mooseman just because its in the neighborhood. The Timberman was this last weekend but sold out very fast. Maybe the Vt 50 would be a good Maggot race it would also involve some the the bike racers on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
I'm doing a 50K next month (My first race in 6 years) and then running a 50 miler two weeks later in order to qualify for Western States in 08.
So, my putative schedule for the next year assuming I qualify for Western States may look something like:
September: Nobel Cyn. 50K
October: Le Grizz 50
December: Ridgecrest 50K (maybe)
January: Avalon 50 and, maybe, San Diego marathon
March: Los Angeles marathon (probably not)
April: American River 50 or Leona Divide 50 (Hey, maybe both if they're at least 2 weeks apart!)
May: Pacific Crest Trail 50
June: Holcomb Valley 50K (maybe) and Western States 100
September: Angeles Crest 100
I understand that the lottery for WS is getting harder and harder as its popularity isn't exactly going down the tubes..
good luck with that.
screw all those other races though.. if you get in, go for the grand slam. i'll pace you in vermont. (:
-steve
Thanks. Nothing's guaranteed, but I have certain connections as well as a long history at that race.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
fantastic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
it's great to know people..
maybe i'll fly out and pace you there. (:
-steve
Whats the qualifying time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
For me either a sub 9 hour or sub 10 hour in a trail 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
That's a burly schedule. I was up at Leadville this past weekend and paced someone the last 23 miles of the race, it was very cool. I'll go back next year to either pace or participate. We got in just under 25 hours so he got his belt buckle. He is also trying to complete the grand slam so this was his third of the four and all he has to do is complete the Wasatch 100 in a couple weeks.