2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

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Originally Posted by phallic-menace

I'll be returning mine

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Did you get time on them? Any analysis if so?

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

Jeez man.

No panties in a wad on his part from my perspective. His reply is one of the more sensible ones in this thread. I might add, way more sensible that what has been written some other individuals that are seemingly claiming to understand what JLev's vision with 4FRNT is better than the people involved in the brand does - based on a very, very short history with the brand or indeed the sport.

Sure, poeple can use their own inherent abilities at creating patterns where there is none, supported and reinforced by a healthy dose of confirmation bias, but that does not make their findings any more true.

That some people get a bit fed up with unfounded negativity based on one faux pas by the guy who is trying to keep the brand alive, is no reason to reply using the retorical domineering techniques you are trying to pull off. Then again, that kind of retorical devices are usually seen through pretty easily and mostly reflects badly on the person using it, not the receiver - though too many of that kinds of posts just makes the people who have actual knowledge to emaprt/contribute think twice about being on the forum.

And besides - for those who feel this year's iteration of the Renegade is too soft, you should chec out the Inthaynes. They have been getting stellar reviews in its thread here on TGR :)

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I think this whole Bastard Renegade debacle would have not created such a big ripple on TGR if it had happened under Sterbenz.

The “Honest Mistake” + New Ownership together created a setup that triggers suspicion.

Suspicion, theory development, and questioning authority is what scientific and/or business-minded humans do.

Obviously not all humans think this way. Some people like stability and prefer to not question authority.

The InThayne is not a touring ski. It’s not a substitute for a “Real Renegade.”

BTW, I ain’t a 4FRNT hater. I own the Dev, MSP, and Raven. I had ordered the Renegade and it would have completed my BC specific quiver. Thankfully the Mag community pointed me to the Praxis Protest UL core as an alternative.

Finally, length of time in the sport does not qualify or disqualify an idea. What lots of people do here is prop themselves up on their years skiing or self derived superiority and disqualify others based upon a metric that don’t mean shit (years skiing). Get over it. Ideas are ideas. It does not matter their source.

As an example that years skiing don’t mean shit:

In only my third year skiing today, I’m out skiing 20-40 year skiers at the resort all the time. Thanks to my mentor, I climbed and ski’d off the summit of Mt Shasta at the end of my first year. Anyone else out there check off at 14’er in their first year? Not likely. (Never boarded, never ski’d until December 2016; Shasta in June 2017).

Obviously if years skiing mattered, this Mexican skier would not exist.

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Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

As an example that years skiing don’t mean shit:

In only my third year skiing today, I’m out skiing 20-40 year skiers at the resort all the time.

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If you’re wondering, later, where you lost the argument or, maybe, at what point people stopped listening: There it is.

WTF do you even think that means?

Being a rad skier with little experience is a metric that only matters to you mang. It's alright to be proud, but skiing well doesn't add mich weight to an argument.

Talking about skiing well means even less. Be humble, your actions should say plenty.

I’m so much better than you.

I’m the best skier on this mountain.

I can stick uphill ice on my saucer.

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Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

I’m so much better than you.

I’m the best skier on this mountain.

I can stick uphill ice on my saucer.

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That’s it. You got it! Ding Ding Ding!

4frnt has a nice deal going on FYI for a buy 1 get 1 of MSP99, Devastator, and Hoji

+1. Just don't know what I need. First world problems.

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^^^

Not liking some ski design decisions but these deals are unreal. They need to get them out to more people. IMO: bring back demos at core areas. More hype more eyes on the product. I'm buying something on this deal. Have really wanted to try msp 99. But if they're changing the devestator is a great deal to stockpile a 184 and 194. Got the night to think it over. But will be expanding my already overloaded 4frnt quiver. Liking the deals. Just want the goods to stay up to par. Note to jlev. Figure out a way to get these deals out to the masses. Partner with ski resort email lists?


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Originally Posted by altacoup

^^^

Not liking some ski design decisions but these deals are unreal. They need to get them out to more people. IMO: bring back demos at core areas. More hype more eyes on the product. I'm buying something on this deal. Have really wanted to try msp 99. But if they're changing the devestator is a great deal to stockpile a 184 and 194. Got the night to think it over. But will be expanding my already overloaded 4frnt quiver. Liking the deals. Just want the goods to stay up to par. Note to jlev. Figure out a way to get these deals out to the masses. Partner with ski resort email lists?


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MSP 99 is highly recommend. Pretty powerful tool for firm conditions or longer breaks in natural delivery of fresh. Quick turning on steeps are great, and edge hold on steep firm is the best in my quiver. Longer arcs are doable, but more energy is required to drive them at speed when compared to a bigger radii ski.

I’m on the fence about getting a new (backup) 194 Dev too

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Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

MSP 99 is highly recommend. Pretty powerful tool for firm conditions or longer breaks in natural delivery of fresh. Quick turning on steeps are great, and edge hold on steep firm is the best in my quiver. Longer arcs are doable, but more energy is required to drive them at speed when compared to a bigger radii ski.

I’m on the fence about getting a new (backup) 194 Dev too

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I'm on the fence about buying a pair of the MSP99 in a 187. I have Dynastar Pro Riders and Legend Factory so I'm not sure if the MSP99 sort of clashes with the Pro Riders. I know 6mm in width isn't a lot, but the only real different I can see beyond that is the turn shape radius.

Attachment 262601


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What a rad sign of ownership.

/applause.

Renuchgade

Now this is just bad ownership. You sell them for $599 and screw up build. Then sell them as blems for $399. Where is our $200 refund? We paid full price for blems and now your saying those who come in after our pre orders get a better deal. Done playing with you guys!

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Originally Posted by whyturn

Now this is just bad ownership. You sell them for $599 and screw up build. Then sell them as blems for $399. Where is our $200 refund? We paid full price for blems and now your saying those who come in after our pre orders get a better deal. Done playing with you guys!

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Have you inquired if that's possible? I can't imagine they'd shaft you guys like that intentionally. May have slipped their mind?

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Originally Posted by whyturn

Now this is just bad ownership. You sell them for $599 and screw up build. Then sell them as blems for $399. Where is our $200 refund? We paid full price for blems and now your saying those who come in after our pre orders get a better deal. Done playing with you guys!

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Our apologies on the incorrect pricing, they are still $599 on the Sterbenz's Stash. https://4frnt.com/products/sterbenzs-stash

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Originally Posted by 4FRNT_Skis

Our apologies on the incorrect pricing, they are still $599 on the Sterbenz's Stash.

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Nope,as of 3 minutes ago.Attachment 262715

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Noticed that the initial email stated 15% softer flex, and now on Sterbenz’s Stash states 20%. Really glad now I didn’t waste time mounting. Bastard Renegade is only 4/5 the stiffness intended.

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Originally Posted by 4FRNT_Skis

Our apologies on the incorrect pricing, they are still $599 on the Sterbenz's Stash. https://4frnt.com/products/sterbenzs-stash

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Pretty sure that’s not the correct answer. If you refer back to page 191 of your textbook you’ll see something along the lines of “apologies for the confusion and general fuck uppery. That was actually supposed to be $599 and will be corrected, but since you preordered and have been put through the ringer you have the option of either returning them for a full refund or you can keep them and we’ll send you $200. Shoot me an email at wemakeitright@4frnt.com and I’ll make sure you get taken care of.”

The twelve people who preordered and see your post will be well worth the $2,400 for retaining loyal customers and positive word of mouth advertising.

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Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

Noticed that the initial email stated 15% softer flex, and now on Sterbenz’s Stash states 20%. Really glad now I didn’t waste time mounting. Bastard Renegade is only 4/5 the stiffness intended.

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I’m guessing 5% is well within the margin of error. The situation didn’t change. Just your perception of it.

So, sitting over here in the peanut gallery; while I don’t want to pile on, the way this has been and is being handled seems woefully amateurish. I thought, at the least, JLev was supposed to bring professional leadership to the table?

When dealing with a fuck up, the first thing on your Action Item List should be Stop Fucking Up.

Stop Fucking Up. That is the new model for next year right? The 4FRNT SFU?

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Pretty sure that’s not the correct answer. If you refer back to page 191 of your textbook you’ll see something along the lines of “apologies for the confusion and general fuck uppery. That was actually supposed to be $599 and will be corrected, but since you preordered and have been put through the ringer you have the option of either returning them for a full refund or you can keep them and we’ll send you $200. Shoot me an email at wemakeitright@4frnt.com and I’ll make sure you get taken care of.”

The twelve people who preordered and see your post will be well worth the $2,400 for retaining loyal customers and positive word of mouth advertising.

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+1. If you’re selling them as blems anyone who paid full price before they knew about the issue is absolutely entitled to a discount.

Skis which are used the thinner edges and bases are only Renegades, aren't they?

I bought this season's Ravens 190.
They are much softer than this season's Hojis 187(softer than 2013 Hojis 195) and much much softer than 2012 Ranegades 196.
The thickness of the edges of Ravens seems thinner than Hojis.
Attachment 262815

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Originally Posted by j0z77

Skis which are used the thinner edges and bases are only Renegades, aren't they?

I bought this season's Ravens 190.
They are much softer than this season's Hojis 187(softer than 2013 Hojis 195) and much much softer than 2012 Ranegades 196.
The thickness of the edges of Ravens seems thinner than Hojis.
Attachment 262815

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4frnt customer service claims the raven is unchanged this year. Interested to see if that is the case, considering I have a pair coming in the mail and would rather not receive noodles.

I'm starting a band.

We're called Jason Leventhal and the 4Frnt Debacle.

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Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

I'm starting a band.

We're called Jason Leventhal and the 4Frnt Debacle.

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That’s catchy.

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Originally Posted by todug27

4frnt customer service claims ... Interested to see if that is the case,

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This is fucking DEATH!

SFU

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

That’s catchy.

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We used to be called Jason Leventhal and the Line Skis Debacle.

But I'm sure you've already heard that broken record.

Moar thoughts:

If you go to a direct sales model, and you eschew demo days, then your business model is predicated almost entirely on trust and delivering what you say you’re going to deliver. A whisper of doubt in either area should absolutely fucking terrify you. If BOTH are in question? Jesus Christ. 100% satisfaction guaranteed only goes so far. It works for the pretty small cross section of core skiers (your explicitly stated target demo) who have liquidity and fall backs and don’t mind fucking around with shipping skis around. Otherwise, seriously, 4frnt, what in the fuck?? As a longtime 4frnt fanboi who fully intends to refresh my quiver with MSPs and, well, not Renegades, I guess, please, find all of your poop and nicely group it.

^^^^
I'm in the same boat. I've really liked a lot of 4frnt skis. Love the HALS construction renegades, have 3 unmounted pairs that I've hoarded. Have Ravens, hojis and 3 pairs of ehps. 194 and 184 devestators abs just ordered backups. Is really like to try the msp 99. I've anyways been very impressed with the build quality on the skis built by Elan. However these changes lead me to believe that my 4frnt loyalty will be fading. Not having demos seems like a huge mistake. I've anyways felt that all you had to do was get people to actually ski a 4frnt ski and they're going to like them. I like the pricing they've gone to. Devestators are the same price as a lot of brands pro form. But you have to convince people they're getting a good ski to sell them.


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At 399 I would almost put them in the quiver but I think I want to try a pair of line pescados instead, not a poke at line, actually do want to try them. And despite all the JLev hate, the guy has been in the game since most of you were in elementary school. Give the guy a break it's his first year with 4frnt, he will work it out, he knows what he's doing, and a fuckload more than most of us do.

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Has anyone heard what the plan for next year's run is? Men's lengths?

^^^Spend time and money prototyping, get athletes to sign off new design, only to change materials last second, untested and hope for the best?

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Originally Posted by phallic-menace

Has anyone heard what the plan for next year's run is? Men's lengths?

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I can confirm 191 for sure. Beyond that I do not know.

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Originally Posted by whyturn

I can confirm 191 for sure. Beyond that I do not know.

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bummer

Attachment 263897

even hoji himself wont ride the new ones lol.

^^ clearly flailing his arms