Please get a flu vaccine

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Holy shit.

I read down to this part, which clearly was written by someone who was dropped on their head as an infant:

The flu vaccine is clearly the most dangerous vaccine in the U.S., and yet it is sold in stores and can be routinely obtained as easily as over-the-counter medicines with no consultation with a physician.

I mean, seriously, if you find this sort of shit meaningful you need to take some HS science courses, and maybe something in logical reasoning/critical reading.

Unfuckingbelievable.

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Care to comment on the report from the DOJ that the author links, or are you just going to attach the author?

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Originally Posted by old goat

We know how you feel about big pharma. No need to repeat it every few days. Saying the same thing over and over isn't more convincing than saying it once, just more annoying (which I realize is your true aim).

What's your source for the CDC's "admission"?
And because we don't know what causes cancer and autism it must be vaccines? Sheesh.
Go wandering around a 19th century cemetery and look at the ages on the headstones and tell me how living naturally worked out. Naturally for human beings is living in small isolated bands--infectious diseases are much less common when there isn't a large, dense population to sustain them. But for most of the world that ship sailed about 5000 years ago, maybe more.
We really need to emphasize STEM education in this country.

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http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health...icy/index.html

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When you do the back-of-the-envelope calculations (of all the separate groups recommended for vaccination), you are actually already making a recommendation that 75% of the population get it," Schaffner said. "And when it became apparent the issue of shortages was largely put on the back burner, then in 2010, we said, 'Let's simplify this and recommended this vaccine for anyone over 6 months old

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I want suggesting vaccines cause cancer and autism. Only that we don't know what is, so I try and avoid anything not natural.

We remodeled our house to be toxin free, we eat mostly organic, we don't have televisions or microwaves in the house, we don't carry our phones in our pockets and don't hold them to our ears, etc...

Don't forget to wear your hats.
Attachment 223305

Pool party at the DBS house.

http://www.huntingtoncountytab.com/s...?itok=2QcoPI0a

LOL, that's funny, but no.

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health...icy/index.html



I want suggesting vaccines cause cancer and autism. Only that we don't know what is, so I try and avoid anything not natural.

We remodeled our house to be toxin free, we eat mostly organic, we don't have televisions or microwaves in the house, we don't carry our phones in our pockets and don't hold them to our ears, etc...

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What is a toxin?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...free-home/amp/

All paints and finished used in our home are extremely low or zero voc. Cabinetry is all formaldehyde free. All cleaning products are non toxic. All mattresses are organic latex. Bedding is organic cotton. No fire retardants. Flooring is green guard certified. Subfloor is formaldehyde free soy glue based plywood.

You all can call me as much of a kook as you want, but having an allergen free home is pretty amazing.

I don't walk under ladders, turn around three times whenever I see my reflection, and I always wear purple hats on Thursdays. Big pharma and the gub'mint aren't going to get me under their thumbs!

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

I don't walk under ladders, turn around three times whenever I see my reflection, and I always wear purple hats on Thursdays. Big pharma and the gub'mint aren't going to get me under their thumbs!

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+1

You guys all really trust the government? Funny shit. I’m not saying that I think the vaccines cause cancer, autism, etc., but western medicine in general and the western diet probably does. Look to the east.

Nah, what's funny shit is the idea that 'western medicine' causes cancer/autism. Where did you get such an idea?

You know what you call 'alternative' medicine that works? Medicine. Look to the east, etc., is pure bullshit for people who prefer religion/superstition over science. When it works there is proof, which is what 'western' medicine is based on (and it's pretty culturally insulting to imply that people who aren't western are too stupid to understand how science works--smart people around the world all use the same treatments because fact-based science is not dependent on culture or superstition).

Ok that's cool man. Believe what you want. I'm not here to try to convince people.

Nah, I don't believe what I want--I believe in evidence based medicine. That's the only thing anyone should believe in--not a matter of convincing anyone or deciding on your own what is correct. If there isn't evidence I don't believe it, which is the 'western' model (obviously I rely on experts who follow the evidence for nearly all of this information). Any doctor or anyone else who doesn't follow that is full of shit (and unfortunately there are doctors out there who don't follow the evidence).

This shouldn't be treated like religion. When it is you end up with people like DBS who follow superstitions about what magical substances exist in their homes causing mysterious ailments. It's like they're living in caves worshiping the guy in the sky who makes the sun chase the moon away.

^^^And why does that bother you so much?

Personally, when I hear people make claims that aren't true it often bothers me--at least if the claims are about something that matters. And in this case, as with other things that matter, when people believe falsehoods it is actually dangerous. People have literally died (this year) due to myths about vaccines, etc. It's dangerous to the people around them, to children, and to themselves (and sure, people can do what they like to themselves, but when they end up in intensive care because they believed garbage about vaccines we all pay for it and physicians/hospitals have to devote massive resources when a dime's worth of vaccine could have prevented it).

And I wouldn't say it bothers me so much as I simply am amazed by the ignorance. When I say DBS is a fucking idiot I'm not upset or angry, just baffled...and after years of this a little exasperated.

Not sure about this thread, but in the past we have had actual experts in immunology and vaccine very patiently walk DBS through why what he believes is wrong--people who have spent years studying and understanding the science giving this information in a very clear, thoughtful way. It's pretty impressive, and yet he just ignores it all.

You could get a textbook or look online to find out about all this and pretty much settle any doubts that people are trying to create.

I think it's also worth remembering the agenda that anti-vax people have--going along with them empowers that agenda. But really just look at the science/evidence and most of this is pretty clear cut (not that 100% certainty on every aspect of this is ever possible, but that doesn't mean you believe in things that don't have any evidence, or that the evidence contradicts).

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine, but that's just my opinion. I choose to heal myself through diet, exercise, breathing, meditation, etc. I don't really care if other people choose to use surgeries, pharmaceuticals, etc. I did it for 35+ years and it never served me well. Whatever works, right?

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine, but that's just my opinion. I choose to heal myself through diet, exercise, breathing, meditation, etc. I don't really care if other people choose to use surgeries, pharmaceuticals, etc. I did it for 35+ years and it never served me well. Whatever works, right?

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First let me say that if people lead off with balanced diets, exercise, and healthy mental practices (which can include breathing/meditation), society would undoubtably be much healthier because we would prevent so many chronic health problems that are usually left to symptom management (lung disease, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc)... you know the ones that are the most expensive and primary contributors to the leading causes of death!

Next let me say this: "oh whatever you want to believe its your opinion man" is also known as being an apologist for bullshit. Science does not flow from individual choices alone.

Freedom belongs to the morbidly obese diabetic with heart disease to gorge themselves on cheesy poofs and powdered donut pancake surprise while smoking cigs and sitting around all day watching soaps. Science will rightly say this is unhealthy. The obese person might say "yea fuck science this works for me" (or I can't help myself)

Yea you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Does it work for you? The problem occurs when your anecdotal experience or belief systems make you forgo proven treatment, and waste money/time on useless or even harmful treatments. Now, maybe you aren't doing that. But someone like DBS is... and DBS is also on a crusade to spread misinformation in a pathological quest to validate his conspiratorial anti-science thinking. That is what provokes strong responses from those who care about the health of others.

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health...icy/index.html



I want suggesting vaccines cause cancer and autism. Only that we don't know what is, so I try and avoid anything not natural.

We remodeled our house to be toxin free, we eat mostly organic, we don't have televisions or microwaves in the house, we don't carry our phones in our pockets and don't hold them to our ears, etc...

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Wow...ok so you're a freak. Duly noted... #tinfoilhat

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Originally Posted by Fritz

^^^And why does that bother you so much?

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I think it's because they try and get other people to jump on their retarded band wagon. It's no different than a cult or other collection of irrational and emotionally vulnerable people.

On either end of the political/social spectrum lies an idiot class.

so DBS wears tinfoil to protect himself from microwaves and cellphones... wow... STOP QUOTING DBS

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine, but that's just my opinion. I choose to heal myself through diet, exercise, breathing, meditation, etc. I don't really care if other people choose to use surgeries, pharmaceuticals, etc. I did it for 35+ years and it never served me well. Whatever works, right?

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Yep...that "ancient Chinese medicine" is really keeping cancer rates down in China. Ha

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-0...y-says/7272266

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Originally Posted by Summit

First let me say that if people lead off with balanced diets, exercise, and healthy mental practices (which can include breathing/meditation), society would undoubtably be much healthier because we would prevent so many chronic health problems that are usually left to symptom management (lung disease, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc)... you know the ones that are the most expensive and primary contributors to the leading causes of death!

Next let me say this: "oh whatever you want to believe its your opinion man" is also known as being an apologist for bullshit. Science does not flow from individual choices alone.

Freedom belongs to the morbidly obese diabetic with heart disease to gorge themselves on cheesy poofs and powdered donut pancake surprise while smoking cigs and sitting around all day watching soaps. Science will rightly say this is unhealthy. The obese person might say "yea fuck science this works for me" (or I can't help myself)

Yea you have the freedom to do whatever you want. Does it work for you? The problem occurs when your anecdotal experience or belief systems make you forgo proven treatment, and waste money/time on useless or even harmful treatments. Now, maybe you aren't doing that. But someone like DBS is... and DBS is also on a crusade to spread misinformation in a pathological quest to validate his conspiratorial thinking that ranges from wasteful to harmful. That is what provokes strong responses from those who care about the health of others.

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I guess what I meant by "whatever works for you" is that I don't really give a shit what you guys believe. That's your deal. If you believe in western shit, fine. I choose not to. I choose to limit the amount of toxins I put in my body which includes all pharmaceuticals, sugar/wheat/dairy, and a lot of the other bullshit that's standard in the SAD and that works for me. It took me 4 decades to figure the shit out and it changed my life. In my opinion there is no need for vaccines and shit if you are truly healthy to begin with, but very few people in the US are actually healthy because of their diets/lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

In my opinion there is no need for vaccines and shit if you are truly healthy to begin with, but very few people in the US are actually healthy because of their diets/lifestyle.

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So back in the day, let's say before 1950, when most people worked hard and had a basically healthy, non-processed diet you believe that most people weren't susceptible to viruses like polio, small pox, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, influenza, typhoid, yellow fever etc.?

Yeah, sorry--completely idiotic to assert that if you are otherwise healthy you don't need vaccines. You are able to believe this because you benefit from herd immunity (thanks to western medicine). Deadly viruses don't know how 'otherwise healthy' you are. Smallpox doesn't give a shit, and you being 'otherwise healthy' won't do shit for you. You can't have the immunity from being healthy.

What you posted is a dangerous, and false believe. You keep talking about believing what you want, and not caring what others believe. Thinking about this in terms of belief is part of the problem--you can choose not to believe in gravity, but that won't make it disappear. You are deciding to not believe in facts, which is stupid.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine,

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As long as you realize that just because you *believe* it, that doesn't necessarily make it true.

And when someone attempts to persuade *other* people to believe bullshit that they "believe" they've gone from just a cute nutjob in the corner eating paste to a dangerous asshole.

Edit: for the record, with post #384, you've gone into the latter category. :D

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Nah, I don't believe what I want--I believe in evidence based medicine. That's the only thing anyone should believe in--not a matter of convincing anyone or deciding on your own what is correct. If there isn't evidence I don't believe it, which is the 'western' model (obviously I rely on experts who follow the evidence for nearly all of this information). Any doctor or anyone else who doesn't follow that is full of shit (and unfortunately there are doctors out there who don't follow the evidence).

This shouldn't be treated like religion. When it is you end up with people like DBS who follow superstitions about what magical substances exist in their homes causing mysterious ailments. It's like they're living in caves worshiping the guy in the sky who makes the sun chase the moon away.

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Magical substances and mysterious ailments.

How is formaldehyde a magical substances? Please provide scientific proof that formaldehyde is healthy.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Not sure about this thread, but in the past we have had actual experts in immunology and vaccine very patiently walk DBS through why what he believes is wrong--people who have spent years studying and understanding the science giving this information in a very clear, thoughtful way. It's pretty impressive, and yet he just ignores it all.

You could get a textbook or look online to find out about all this and pretty much settle any doubts that people are trying to create.

I think it's also worth remembering the agenda that anti-vax people have--going along with them empowers that agenda. But really just look at the science/evidence and most of this is pretty clear cut (not that 100% certainty on every aspect of this is ever possible, but that doesn't mean you believe in things that don't have any evidence, or that the evidence contradicts).

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Again,

I am NOT anti vax.

Our child has been vaccinated. I had a booster shot recently.

I don't however believe in blindly following what the government says to do.

I believe in weighing the risks of vaccination versus the risks of contracting what you are being vaccinated against.

Any of you that say there are no risks to the flu shot are either woefully misinformed or are complete liars.

In the case of the flu shot, I'd rather risk getting the flu.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I think it's because they try and get other people to jump on their retarded band wagon. It's no different than a cult or other collection of irrational and emotionally vulnerable people.

On either end of the political/social spectrum lies an idiot class.

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I have never tried to convince anyone to love their lives the way I do. I leave that attitude to the rest of the sheep, as evidenced by this thread.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

I guess what I meant by "whatever works for you" is that I don't really give a shit what you guys believe. That's your deal. If you believe in western shit, fine. I choose not to. I choose to limit the amount of toxins I put in my body which includes all pharmaceuticals, sugar/wheat/dairy, and a lot of the other bullshit that's standard in the SAD and that works for me. It took me 4 decades to figure the shit out and it changed my life. In my opinion there is no need for vaccines and shit if you are truly healthy to begin with, but very few people in the US are actually healthy because of their diets/lifestyle.

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You are treating this like religion and arguing for the equivalent of religious tolerance. You are stating you have a faith based belief system and you think that religious tolerance makes your faith equal to other faiths... but also to science which is fundamentally different.

There are plenty of religious fundamentalists who fall into this logical fallacy. We get pissed off when they demand that Creationism be given equal time to evolution and Noahs Flood be given equal time to climate change as though they were topics of the same discipline.

Your assertions about vaccines are demonstrably and scientifically false. It isn't a matter of faith or opinion as you assert when you are dealing with facts. Once you go down that road, you are living in a post-fact world with all the alt-right fucktards.

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

I have never tried to convince anyone to love their lives the way I do. I leave that attitude to the rest of the sheep, as evidenced by this thread.

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How many posts would you say you have in this thread?

I think I'll just step out of the way and let you guys keep doing what you're doing. Just chimed in to say that there might be more to it than vaccines and shit and it's working for me. I don't get sick anymore so I'm going to stick with it until something changes.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine, but that's just my opinion. I choose to heal myself through diet, exercise, breathing, meditation, etc. I don't really care if other people choose to use surgeries, pharmaceuticals, etc. I did it for 35+ years and it never served me well. Whatever works, right?

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Yeah, had a GF who went your route for years suffering all the time. Her husband was beside himself while she went to this Chinese practitioner and that herbalist, Tai Chi, yoga etc. etc. Suffer, suffer, suffer. Finally went to a western doc after 5 years. Turns out she had Lyme disease. He fixed her right up. Now she is amazed at how she finally has her life back.

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

Magical substances and mysterious ailments.

How is formaldehyde a magical substances? Please provide scientific proof that formaldehyde is healthy.

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The body normally produces and metabolizes (detoxifies and uses) 50,000 mg of endogenous formaldehyde daily. It has been calculates that an adult human liver will metabolize 22 mg of formaldehyde per minute (or 1,320 mg per hour).




https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/vacc...nts/index.html

https://thoughtscapism.com/2015/09/1...e-in-vaccines/

http://www.chop.edu/centers-programs...s/formaldehyde

http://www.publichealth.org/public-a.../goes-vaccine/

https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVa.../ucm187810.htm

https://formaldehyde.americanchemist...e-Vaccines.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

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Originally Posted by Fritz

I don't get sick anymore so I'm going to stick with it until something changes.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...286abe28d1.jpg



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Originally Posted by KQ

Yeah, had a GF who went your route for years suffering all the time. Her husband was beside himself while she went to this Chinese practitioner and that herbalist, Tai Chi, yoga etc. etc. Suffer, suffer, suffer. Finally went to a western doc after 5 years. Turns out she had Lyme disease. He fixed her right up. Now she is amazed at how she finally has her life back.

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I've also known people with the opposite experience. Anecdote time! Went the traditional route for years suffering all the time. Went to doc after doc after doc, specialist after specialist after specialist, and nobody could figure out what was wrong with them. Finally went to a nutritionist. Turns out it was something related to that. Figured out what the intolerance was, and also what was lacking in their diet. Boom. Problem solved.

This is why I personally believe in a blend of both modern Western medicine along with common sense non-invasive/low to non-pharmaceutical methods. From previous threads, sounds like you might think along similar lines as I do. I don't think any of us should blindly follow one line of thinking or the other. Amazing how so many people are hard-core standard modern medicine, at the total exclusion of any other possibilities. These are the folks who when they sneeze, they go to a doc who wants to throw the entire arsenal (antibiotics/antivirals) at them just to be on the safe side. Then there are the sorts of people who are all hyper conspiracy theory minded who refuse to believe a word that doctors could ever have to say. These are your anti-vaxxers, anti-anything, but they seem to have no problem with stupid, ineffective things like ear candles. SMH.

I think the best thing we can do is think for ourselves. Sucks for your friend who had Lyme disease, but glad she got if figured out. Too bad it wasn't sooner. One of the reasons I often times will take a look at multiple approaches when dealing with health, both traditional and non. For example, when my wife was pregnant for the first time, we decided to "shop" around. We met OBs at the hospital, along with nursing staff, AND we also interviewed several midwives. Listened to what they all had to say, did a bunch of research, looked at risk:reward, weighed all the options and ended up going the way we felt the most comfortable with in the end. We're happy we did, and felt even more confident with our decision since it felt like an educated one.

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

Magical substances and mysterious ailments.

How is formaldehyde a magical substances? Please provide scientific proof that formaldehyde is healthy.

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Ever eaten an apple?

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Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer

I have never tried to convince anyone to love their lives the way I do. I leave that attitude to the rest of the sheep, as evidenced by this thread.

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I don't need you to convince me to love my life. You are the sheep because you lack critical thinking skills, everything you post is based on emotions and not facts and that makes you 'feel good'.

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Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

I've also known people with the opposite experience. Anecdote time! Went the traditional route for years suffering all the time. Went to doc after doc after doc, specialist after specialist after specialist, and nobody could figure out what was wrong with them. Finally went to a nutritionist. Turns out it was something related to that. Figured out what the intolerance was, and also what was lacking in their diet. Boom. Problem solved.

This is why I personally believe in a blend of both modern Western medicine along with common sense non-invasive/low to non-pharmaceutical methods. From previous threads, sounds like you might think along similar lines as I do. I don't think any of us should blindly follow one line of thinking or the other. Amazing how so many people are hard-core standard modern medicine, at the total exclusion of any other possibilities. These are the folks who when they sneeze, they go to a doc who wants to throw the entire arsenal (antibiotics/antivirals) at them just to be on the safe side. Then there are the sorts of people who are all hyper conspiracy theory minded who refuse to believe a word that doctors could ever have to say. These are your anti-vaxxers, anti-anything, but they seem to have no problem with stupid, ineffective things like ear candles. SMH.

I think the best thing we can do is think for ourselves. Sucks for your friend who had Lyme disease, but glad she got if figured out. Too bad it wasn't sooner. One of the reasons I often times will take a look at multiple approaches when dealing with health, both traditional and non. For example, when my wife was pregnant for the first time, we decided to "shop" around. We met OBs at the hospital, along with nursing staff, AND we also interviewed several midwives. Listened to what they all had to say, did a bunch of research, looked at risk:reward, weighed all the options and ended up going the way we felt the most comfortable with in the end. We're happy we did, and felt even more confident with our decision since it felt like an educated one.

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Nutritionists are part of 'western medicine'.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Cool. I'm a fan of believing whatever you want. That's one of the good things about this country. I choose to believe in ancient Chinese stuff over new western medicine, but that's just my opinion. I choose to heal myself through diet, exercise, breathing, meditation, etc. I don't really care if other people choose to use surgeries, pharmaceuticals, etc. I did it for 35+ years and it never served me well. Whatever works, right?

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That didn't work out too well for Steve Jobs.