The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

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Originally Posted by east or bust

Anyone experience problems with the tech toe not fully engaging due to contact with pedestal(s)?

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To follow up, I was finally able to look at these closer on a proper bench and I‘m sure my issues are resulting from a fucked up mount. Like, can’t believe the shop let them go out the door as is mount. Yes, insert ‘mount your own fucking bindings thread’ here. Usually I’m under the position that a shop with a jig is more suited to mount bindings than me, with a tape measure and paper template. But this experience will probably have me doing all future mounts. I’d rather fuck something up myself than have some dumbass do it for me, live and learn I guess.

Anyway now that I’ve successfully vented my frustrations.. I’m basically looking at grinding the tech toes or trying to bend the metal retainer pieces that hold the toes on the front pedestals when engaged. My problem is stemming from some of the pedestals not being drilled straight, possibly a couple mm off to boot. Not really an issue for the alpine toes as I can finagle them onto the pedestals and forward pressure does the rest. Think bending the retainers will not only be easier but also yield better results. Open to suggestions though.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

To follow up, I was finally able to look at these closer on a proper bench and I‘m sure my issues are resulting from a fucked up mount. Like, can’t believe the shop let them go out the door as is mount. Yes, insert ‘mount your own fucking bindings thread’ here. Usually I’m under the position that a shop with a jig is more suited to mount bindings than me, with a tape measure and paper template. But this experience will probably have me doing all future mounts. I’d rather fuck something up myself than have some dumbass do it for me, live and learn I guess.

Anyway now that I’ve successfully vented my frustrations.. I’m basically looking at grinding the tech toes or trying to bend the metal retainer pieces that hold the toes on the front pedestals when engaged. My problem is stemming from some of the pedestals not being drilled straight, possibly a couple mm off to boot. Not really an issue for the alpine toes as I can finagle them onto the pedestals and forward pressure does the rest. Think bending the retainers will not only be easier but also yield better results. Open to suggestions though.

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I had a similar issues with the metal retainers on my tech toes. I would just jam my pole end into them a couple of times until they finally had enough clearance. No issues thus far.

^^^Russian space station fix


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Use alpine toe as hammer.

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Originally Posted by bthomson22

I would just jam my pole into them until they finally had enough. No issues thus far FIFY.

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Big ass C clamp seemed to work on the one clip I tried it on. Should have more time today to fiddle after work

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Originally Posted by east or bust

... My problem is stemming from some of the pedestals not being drilled straight, possibly a couple mm off to boot.

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Re-drill for helicoils. The challenge here lies in keeping the drill bit from wandering in order to shift the hole location.

For bindings with a metal mounting base, I've used the toe piece as a guide - screw the binding in by one screw, drill the 2nd hole, screw that one in and repeat with the remaining holes.

I haven't played with the CAST plate, so I don't know if you can apply this technique.

This has worked for inserts because the size of the toe piece holes has been slightly smaller than the the size of the bit for the inserts. Once drilling the nearly large enough holes on center, it's a simple matter to use the larger bit to drill the insert holes. I don't know if this translates to helicoil size drill bits.

Also, if using the toe piece (or CAST plate) as a drill guide, a trip to the hardware store for a near-exact sized drill bit is a worthwhile exercise.

Of course, if you're @1000-oaks, a drill press and mill are your friends.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by banzai

RE: inserts

What size(length) screws did you use?

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Just got a chance to measure.
Binding heels 4 x 10 mm + 4 x 20 mm - NB the "20 mm" ones measured out about 19 mm and look like I may have ground them down a little.
Riser block 4 x 15 mm (These are for Cast 2.0, not sure if 2.1 has changed that. Doubt it.)

This jives with BF's screw length suggestions: https://www.bindingfreedom.com/cast-touring-system/

Im having some issues with my newly mounted toe pieces. Ill attach some pics but the jist is that both of the pivot 18 toes pieces slide on without an issue and on one ski the tech binding goes on without any issue, photo attached.

On the other ski that isnt the case, the pin toe piece seems to be hitting the bottoms of the shoulder bolts, not letting it slide in all the way. It also looks like there is an extremely small gap below the pin toe piece when sliding it on, not letting it sit flush with the plate.

Any ideas?

Attachment 313122Attachment 313123Attachment 313124Attachment 313125

Does the other tech toe fit on the same ski? And does that tech toe fit on the other ski? Basically narrow it down to either the tech to or the shoulder bolts on the one ski.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

Anyone experience problems with the tech toe not fully engaging due to contact with pedestal(s)?

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Yes. One of them didn’t and the other did. I mic’d them and found that one was 3/10mm thicker than the other. I ground the thicker one down (on the top surface) a little at a time with a Dremel until it slid under the posts with minimal resistance and clicked in.

I chose this course of action because three out of four pieces slid onto the posts perfectly and I knew that this piece would eventually cause some vertical play to manifest for the rest.

I sharpied the de-annodized billet aluminum black after grinding, because it looks cooler that way.

So with the help of my buddy @aanev , everything went to plan and we managed to salvage the botched mount by redrilling for inserts. He is far more knowledgable than me, and since I was just an assistant in the procedure, Im sure he will chip in and correct me if Im talking bs.

The plastic jig is crap. We redrilled (insert drill) with a jig at a shop. The owner was kind enough, after a bit or persuation, to let us monitor and help, since the redrill had to be perfect. He didnt let us use the jig ourselves, but the job was done in the end. We had to secure the plastic jig with extra clamps in place to get the job done properly. Perhaps a few of the reported problems here might be from drilling with the plastic jig. There is an all metal jig available that looks far more reliable, so it might be worthwile to find out what jig the shop is using, before handing them over the precious.
Pics of both jigs side by side: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ook-Rossi-Jigs

Tapped, glued and mounted the inserts. Front plates went on, mounted the pin toes and let the glue cure for 24 hrs with the pin toes attached. Both pin and pivot toes slide in and release nicely.
Correct insert screw sizes imo are:
Front - 16 mm (flatheads, full length measure)
Riser block - 16 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure)
Rear-front - 10 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure)
Rear-rear - 18 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) - we measured the 20 mm screws, but they protruded ~7mm, which is too much.

Voila:
Attachment 316908
Sexy as F.

Edit: I have since switched to mounting the alpine toes for the 24hr glue cure procedure.

I’ve mounted 10 pairs of these now, the first and last being my own all with a factory jig. The first one was with a plastic jig before the new metal one showed up. You can’t just shoot and go with these mounts. Extra care is a must. I have found the biggest culprit for bad fitting toes is volcanoing. No matter the ski you have to tap then clear the holes. I have had 100% success as long as I do this. They are not profitable mounts for the shop at standard rates so keep that in mind when asking and explaining what you want done. It’s also a good idea to screw the toe screws on with the toe plate in place. It seems to help align. My best mounts have been really tight operation for the first several cycles, like I struggle to get the alpine toe off. It’s to the point where if it’s easy the first go I’m worried. It’s possible for the alpine toe to cycle easily and for the tech toe to go on easy but it wont fully clamp on to the toe of the boot. In a marginal mount the silver half moon shield piece can run into the shoulder of the toe screws not letting the toe pins fully engage. Keep a tight ship and it will go, mount like a typical alpine binding and you could be dicking around.

Good tips, I am waiting for parts to do my third mount of these and will certainly be integrating as much as I can from what has been shared here.

I am a little concerned about an issue I have been experiencing. Occasionally, I will take my skis off, pick them up, tap the tails lightly on the ground, and one toe piece will fall off! I'm not worried about this when skiing, but I fear that I may release one day and find myself digging for a toe piece. Or worse yet, have them strapped to the sled and find myself short a toe with no idea where to look. Any one else experience this, and did you figure out what is up?

Yeah I've had the issues with the tech toe needing some banging to slip onto the mount. No issues with alpine toe though?

Any advice on what to do to potentially remedy this issue

Having the toe shoulder screws as close to perfectly perpendicular to the top sheet as possible is key to getting the toe system to function well. I have found that the best way to do this is to check for volcanoes in the top sheet as stated before, sometimes I have to mount the shoulder screws and then remove them and smooth out the volcanoes with a file or rasp. I find putting the shoulder screws on loosely and then locking the alpine toe into place, and then doing the final tightening with the alpine toe in place keeps them from wandering too much.

It's just the tech toes though, not the alpine. Alpine have zero issues

I had a similar problem with my touring toes not fully engaging despite super careful paper jig mount. CAST service crew sent me this. Good advice above about tapping the holes and flattening out the volcanos. Working great now.

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Hey Jon,

Sorry to hear this. We made the tech toes a little more snug this year for a better fit and performance. On a side note it has to be almost perfect mount or the wings will hit the screw towers like you have shown in you picture. Here are a few things you can try...

I would recommend unscrewing the towers and adding wood glue again to reseal as you attempt the bottom instructions.

1. Try loosening the screw tower until the tech toe properly clicks in. Once it clicks in tighten the screw towers back down to the ski. Then check to make sure other Tech and Alpine toes still work with the corrected fix.

2. Make sure the screw towers are straight and vertical. If they are diagonal or look like they are leaning we need to try and get them straight by unscrewing that tower and rescrewing back in as straight as possible.

3. Sometime we need to force the wings a slight bit as the tech toe is sitting a little tight. To do this force the binding down onto the towers with a firm finger or pushing down with the handle of a screwdriver. This will shave a little metal off the screw tower for the perfect fit.

For the brake lock retainers. I recommend unscrewing the retainer just a little bit. Then clicking it down on the brakes, then tighten the screws back down.

Let me know how this goes for you,

Awesome! Will try that when I get a chance. Figured it could be an overtightening thing

Alpine toe =hammer
Done dada

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Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher

Alpine toe =hammer
Done dada

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I assume this is why cast only works with p18's. Any lesser binding would crack when used as a bludgeon.

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Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher

Alpine toe =hammer
Done dada

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That was my go-to but I'd rather not smash those toes too much and have em somehow break.

Anybody have a spare set of tech toes they could part with?

PSA: CAST Pre-Sale
Get 'em while they're hot!
https://casttouring.com/en-us/produc...r-upgrade-kit/

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Dumb question but is there a CAST system compatible with a Pivot 12? Thinking about this for my wife but she skis a din of 5.

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No. 15’s and 18’s only


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Originally Posted by detrusor

No. 15’s and 18’s only


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Dang, thanks for the help anyway. Looks like it's gonna be shift10s for her.

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Question about AFDs - I was hoping to use Cast with both my gripwalk soles (touring boots) and regular alpine boots. I have some P18 with the GW AFD, which I am pretty sure accommodates both GW and alpine soles.

However, the Cast page suggests that the Cast GW AFD only works with GW and the alpine AFD only works with alpine. In other words, the Cast AFD requires you to choose which boot/sole norm at the outset, rather than allow for both GW and alpine on the same AFD.

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The Alpine AFDs will fit all alpine boots that meet ISO 5355. This includes boots that have CAST’s tech conversion. WTR AFDs will fit Walk to Ride boots, they are also sized to accommodate boots that meet ISO 9523 touring boot standard. However, the release and retention characteristics of these boots will be affected by the boot’s sole material and tread pattern. AFDs compatible with GripWalk will fit all boots with GripWalk soles. Due to the limited overlap between Alpine and GripWalk geometry, we chose to design these AFDS to create maximum energy transfer and more consistent function specifically for the GripWalk norm, as a result, they will not work with Alpine boots

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Right?? Or am I mistaken?

If you have to swap AFDs for the different boot sole norms, how easy/hard is it to swap AFDs? Do you have to unscrew the entire toepiece from the ski to do the swap? I think so, but would love confirmation.

AFD comes off with the Pivot toe assembly when you remove them for the walk up. The AFD slides on, and is secured with a set screw from below. Swapping them is easy. You're correct that you'll need to do it though.

^^^^excellent! Thx.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

Dang, thanks for the help anyway. Looks like it's gonna be shift10s for her.

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Pinding might be an option. Not sure what the low din is but 13 is the high

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Pindung is DIN 6-14

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Originally Posted by tgapp

Dumb question but is there a CAST system compatible with a Pivot 12? Thinking about this for my wife but she skis a din of 5.

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Dont pivot 15s go down to 5?

Still probably overkill, and thats coming from a huge pivot fan and hater of shifts, but shifts are probably fine for someone skiing at 5.

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Originally Posted by madriverfreeride

Dont pivot 15s go down to 5?

Still probably overkill, and thats coming from a huge pivot fan and hater of shifts, but shifts are probably fine for someone skiing at 5.

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Overkill @ 5 indeed, as would be Tectons or Vipecs, but they'd work.

I talked myself (with help from folks here) out of CAST, for my weenie-ass DIN-8 self. Great binder solution, but overkill for me.

... Thom

I am picking up my first CAST system and have a mounting question. At the very beginning of this thread someone mentioned that due to the mounting screws sitting “higher” there could be additional forces on them from a sheering/loosing aspect. I have also read some folks use two way/carpet tape when using shims under bindings to add additional friction. Would there be value in using two way tape between the thin metal plate and the ski? Or is this a dumb question and everyone is already doing this?

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Originally Posted by phatboy64

I am picking up my first CAST system and have a mounting question. At the very beginning of this thread someone mentioned that due to the mounting screws sitting “higher” there could be additional forces on them from a sheering/loosing aspect. I have also read some folks use two way/carpet tape when using shims under bindings to add additional friction. Would there be value in using two way tape between the thin metal plate and the ski? Or is this a dumb question and everyone is already doing this?

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I‘m sure you would anyway, but I’d wait till you notice an issue before trying to mitigate it.

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Originally Posted by phatboy64

I am picking up my first CAST system and have a mounting question. At the very beginning of this thread someone mentioned that due to the mounting screws sitting “higher” there could be additional forces on them from a sheering/loosing aspect. I have also read some folks use two way/carpet tape when using shims under bindings to add additional friction. Would there be value in using two way tape between the thin metal plate and the ski? Or is this a dumb question and everyone is already doing this?

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You're over thinking this. If you put anything under the plate its not going to work as its intended to. No concern about "additional stresses" this setup is as bomber as it gets

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I agree about overthinking it. . I wasn’t even thinking about it until I read that one post then it got in my head. Just thought I would double check before mounting.

On the same note: how many folks are running heli coils on these setups or even inserts?? Seems like it’d be a lil scary to try to get them perfectly perpendicular to the ski. Worth a shot? Unnecessary? Due to hole conflict I am going to have to partially drill into a hardwood dowel I gflexed in and I think a heli coil setup would give me a warm a fuzzy but I don’t know if it’s necessary or worth the risk of the coil leaning a tich? Thoughts?? Please and thanks