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Key of C. And early onset Alzheimers.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
Unlike DBdude I have no axe to grind against team sports. I coach 9-10 yr olds in baseball. I see the drill sergeant approach (which works with older kids) backfire with this age group. They don't have the attention spans. Plus they (and their parents) outnumber you: 12-13 kids to 1-2 coaches on a typical baseball team. Good luck once that battle starts.
I wasn't arguing for any particular stereotyped approach
kids who come to organized sports with no sense of organization, they're going to be uncoachable, shouldn't parents be helping their kids with social skills like ...um... being respectful? you don't have to put your kid in organized sports, why make organized sports become disorganized sports? because now it's a babysitter not an athletic experience? if it's just a babysitter, why are so many helicopter parents in there telling coach they think he's bullying the kids? couldn't they find a day care, or is that not what cool parents do now if they're afraid to let their kids run free after school? the best Q may be, why are parents so afraid to let their kids run free and play casual sports via free association? and why, while complaining that organized sports are too rigorous/roughneck/bullying?
sonsQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
the eight year old goes to play and is out to lunch. seriously, it's funny he is so disengaged
the 12 year old, the coach is begging me to get him to play. he won't, he's had it, because it no fun and tedious. the same shit week after week with the same bad actors "scoring" but who actually suck because maybe if the passed and played the game, they would win. but they don't, and they often get trounced. it sucks to watch and he is a bright boy. he get's it. he really does and his response is this sucks
sports teach respect? hardee har har- oh my godQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
respect is taught at home, not by some frustrated jock who's good days are passed
why, because I mix levity with seriousness and you think I'm being mean the whole time? it's no surprise to me that some people insist on reading me as they will, and that often that means they ignore what's right on the screen in front of them. it sorta encapsulates the entire problem of treating the internet so seriously, and getting bent out of shape when you misread someone else because you project onto that person a perspective you dislike. it's quite a regular occurrence, and not just at TGR. we are, after all, in the age of irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
so you think I was pissing on you. I guess you didn't really read what I wrote. example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
I did - I realize why I don't like team sports and I know what my kids think and whyQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
everything that team sports supposedly teach are easily acquired else where
there is this intensity and importance attached to sports in this country I find ridiculous
here is an example my eldest middle and high school has hockey, lacrosse, skiing, soccer and football. they cut the advanced math instruction in the junior high because of funding issues
I don't know what else to say
sports obviously aren't for all kids, and organized sports aren't for all kids who like sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
when I was a kid, a lot of my neighborhood friends were athletic and played casual games after school, but only a few played organized sports, mostly because they didn't want to play organized. that's not really a tough position for a parent to handle, is it?
when I was young I didn't know any kids who were pushed excessively in sports, but I saw plenty when I was an adult and coached kids.
what I saw more of as a kid was parents pushing their kids too hard in academics, not accepting variation in intellectual aptitude, etc. I saw some seriously panicked classmates in 4th, 5th, 6th grades. in hindsight I see they were from families that wanted their kid in the right competitive prep school, and it had been lain on the kid's shoulders as an academic burden. I didn't know about that stuff as a kid.
I guess it's hard for some parents to accept their kids as they are?
Well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
Respect is SUPPOSED to be taught as home...and why is every coach that isn't running romper room a "frustrated jock who's good days are passed"?
They're out there, but most are not that at all.
You do realize that the best coaches are the ones who actually played the sport for a long time, right?
Being an ex-jock that is teaching the game to the next generation doesn't automatically qualify that person as anything other than just that
I accept my kids for what they are - the coaches don't
prep school? we obviously come from different socio economic background
one of my parents quit school at 14 to work and emigrated to another county at 18 and english was a second language for part of my childhood.
prep school - holy shit
public secondary school and public university that I paid for
when the affluent find their progeny are being coached by a person whose life has been oriented around sport not career, and thus the coach may be blue collar if not casual white collar, a point of social hierarchy needs to be made, so that the parent may rest easy on the notion that this has-been might be the coach, but I'm the one with the degrees and fancy job, and so I doubt your strategic superiority or administrative abilities because in my world, those are shown by degrees from fine schools, tastefully set offices, and an ability to use polysyllabics and passive-aggression with equal grace.
the conduct of your athletes is what you have to deal with. don't like, don't do itQuote:
Originally Posted by booner
most parents are idiots - get used to it
Supercilious and super-serious.
project much?
sports are not important - end of story
whether the coach is a street sweeper or a jet pilot, how they coach is what matters, and for an eight year old boy it is about having fun. nothing more nothing less
Tell that to the 8 yr olds on my team that love playing hockey more than anything, and can't wait for that door to open to get on the iceQuote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
Sports aren't AS important as some/most things...but I assure you, they're important to a lot of people...just not you
who is it that keeps forcing DBdude's kids to play in organized sports? that person's obviously an idiot!
You don't get to decide what is important to who.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
so that's the perspective to view team participation - the team you are coaching is all about your kid? an eight year old really knows what is important?
my eight year old is crazy for mine craft - guess what - it's not important
I do for my kid and what I participate inQuote:
Originally Posted by Mazderati
I don't make decisions for others
I agree, and I'm not advocating turning sports into Sunday School. Unfortunately times have changed and you no longer see a group of kids riding their bikes to the field on their own to play unsupervised sports. Everything is done under the watchful eye of parents. I think that's a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
I deal with the cards as they are dealt. In my town, parents pay $100 a season to have their kids play baseball whether the kid is a natural athlete, or an artist there for socialization skills. I have no preconception that even my best players at 9 yrs old will become superstars later because I coached them. I've had divorced parents fighting in the bleachers during games, parents yelling me and at umpires, and kids who show up w/ no glove to a game, etc. I also had one kid last year who was quite uncoordinated, but loved baseball and tried his hardest at everything. Just to see him progress from a low skill level to a (less) low skill level was quite rewarding for me as a coach.
I'm also competing with lax for town funding and player participation. Somehow it boils down to a (volunteer) coach dancing the fine line between discipline and teaching while not pissing too many folks off, all the while ensuring that you somehow instill the love of the game in the 95% of the kids who will never play the game after the age when youth programs end.
There is vast contradiction in this post vs previous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
he should set up an online site where he's the Minecraft expert, doling out strategies as a precocious tycoon of a burgeoning economic paradigm, just like J R VansantQuote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
and thus, the entire gambit was exposedQuote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
flags at half mast, people
nobody does. It's the poor experiences they have had and why does the basketball coach for my oldest keep asking me to get my kid to play? they need bodies, and it has been such a poor experience for so many, nobody wants to playQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
I talk to parents about that. They have no choice.. If they let their kids run free they risk getting ridiculed, chastised, or worse. The car line to pick up kids at my local High School is a half mile long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge
oh stop, I understand what you mean and that is bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
my point is eight year olds don't need a super structured environment. Booner's team is different because it is a club team. something I wouldn't put an eight year old in
my 12 year old played after school basketball for four years and one year of AAU and walked because it sucked. he had the same experience I did at that level. poor coaching that led to humiliating losses and poor team play where he ran up down the floor to stand like a post under the basket because of his height and never getting the ball after he passed it off.
it's amazing what people will do in order to feel like their behavior "fits in," even if that means stunting their child's development they'll try to "fit in"Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
astounding
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Originally Posted by DBdude
Apparently that doesn't stop you from trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
I don't have to deal with any bullshit from parents yet really....all playing time is equal still
nobody made him play basketball, right? what's the humiliation?Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
I got cut from jr high basketball and HS tennis. so what? I wasn't humiliated. what would be "humiliating" about that? I could still play casual BB with friends, casual tennis with friends, nobody was stopping me/us, and we could be as competitive as we wanted. sometimes it was serious, people even got angry! and no referees to immediately declare a foul had happened or a player needed to be booted. how did anyone even have any fun without referees, paint lines, uniforms, and parents to 2d hand live through our deeds?
gosh. it's almost like humans are afraid of some of their own tendencies. like people who want to say "I'm not competitive," when you see other areas of their life where they clearly are very driven and competitive.
not to say your choice is wrong, but....if a kid wants to play club travel at any point, they have to be there from the start. 5 yrs old is the avg age that players start and always has beenQuote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
And this is nothing new...not part of the craziness sports have become. Hockey is very different because of the skating. You can put a gifted athlete in football, baseball, golf, basketball, etc at a later age and they can pick it up and do fine.
All good hockey players started very young...the ones that didn't can never catch up
There are guys in the NFL and NBA that didn't play until HS
Every single professional/college/good HS hockey player started at 5 or younger....every one
the more it's like walking...Quote:
Originally Posted by booner
there are occasional exceptions like Jordan in BB, Larry Nelson in the PGA in the 80s was fairly successful despite a late start, but the more it's like walking...
I guess we both take losing badly - or I take losing badly and project it on him - that said he wont play organized ball anymore - I know for a fact he didn't have fun. It was the same experience I had. you liked it - more matue outlook or a love for the game(s). he and I both lack that love for the game. I have only enjoyed non team sports. I liked hockey and still love soccer, but participating on organized teams always sucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
What I have railed about over and over again, is the over seriousness for third graders organized sports. there is a lot of diversity at that age in maturity and coaches and parents take it way too seriously
it's not hard to take "less serious" kids and give them a soccer ball and a place to kick it around
I find it incredible, the current generation of young kids' parents like you're describing (elem/middle) is affluent and well-educated compared to when I was their age, and yet the parents seem to seek complexity instead of the obvious solution I just gave. they seem inclined to demur on parental obligations and push them onto schools for behavioral training between breakfast and mid-afternoon, with sports leagues the next surrogate in line, all so parents can hustle their $$ to buy more trinkets and afford those prep school fees. money, not guidance. stuff, not nurture. I guess the affluence feels good somehow, and makes up in other ways for the neg ways in which its pursuit (imbalance of career/parental attention) affects the kids.
yes I know - I grew up on skates - my parents are dutch - talk about stereo types. I was on skates as soon as I could walkQuote:
Originally Posted by booner
I put my oldest on skates to get him ready to ski - thank god he did it just to humor me
I am so glad they both didn't have an interest in the sport. I prefer sleeping in on the weekend and schleping to the hill for a couple of hours and then back home with meadow skipping on week days and more downhill on vacations and snow days
dude - i live in the country and don't get home till 6:30 - then it's make dinner - homeworkQuote:
Originally Posted by creaky fossil
there is no neighborhood
ok - i'm done
didn't mean to denigrate anyone - I just hate people taking sports seriously
a family member groomed their kid for d1 hockey (talk of pros - yes I know - unbelievable) - prep school the whole 9 yards. injured himself at prep school - now playing d3
booner you know the program before he went to proctor - skaneatalas NY
they literally talked pro prospect - dedicated substantial time and resources - not going to happen - what bafoons
Yep...played against them a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
If the kid had made the pros, would they still be bafoons?
I never saw the kid play, so who knows...but maybe he really did have what it takes and his parents were willing to give it a shot.
I played with guys that were 1st round draft picks and STILL didn't make it...there's so much talent it's next to impossible to make it even if you're good enough to do it
This guy was on my team till he left for OHL. Biggest bust in NHL history
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...on-bonsignore/
he was a doosh. got jumped for running his mouth by 4 guys at a school dance right before nationals. he had to cut his jaw wires to get a mouthguard in so he could play
hah it's like a little jolt of caffeine!Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
right, but the kids can't play between last bell and your 6:30 arrival? what do you mean, "no neighborhood"? your house/apartment/condo/etc has no land surrounding it? no place a kid could kick a ball, ride a bike, ride a skateboard, use a pogo stick, drift a BigWheel? are you bats living in caves? moles living in an underground tunnel network?Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
even bat and mole youth get to play!
frogger used to be a good indirect lesson on that one, but today a kid might get a frogger app on her phone and stop mid-crossing to make sure the frog makes itQuote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
Well you retards shit the sandbox nicely.
Booner you're a good coach. Don't sweet the little shit. There will be those moments, that will make it all worth it.
Let's play some golf someday, get drunk, stoned and swap stories.
Booner, I think you're a good coach too.
Golf is for old men and weed just makes you lazy. Let's go bang some of the hot hockey moms then drive around town...throwing empty beer cans out the car window and shitting on the porches of the parents we don't like. A coaches night out, if you will.