Alpine bindings - current best?

But they make a chart for different weight and bsl for recommended release value. Are you saying that they’re just guessing?

Did you know that coil springs can have linear or progressive rates of compression? A linear coil will have the same rate throughout the length of travel. A progressive coil will have a varying rate throughout the travel.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

But they make a chart for different weight and bsl for recommended release value. Are you saying that they’re just guessing? Did you know that coil springs can have linear or progressive rates of compression? A linear coil will have the same rate throughout the length of travel. A progressive coil will have a varying rate throughout the travel.

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Go back and read my first post. DIN charts are correct, the boot will release at the right torque whether you're at the high or low end of the DIN range.

That doesn't necessarily mean they will ski the same, that they will behave the same up until the point of release. In fact, I'm positive they won't. I just don't know how the actual difference is.

And yeah, I know about fucking springs. I've mentioned here a number of times that my previous career was designing suspensions on race cars, which do in fact use springs.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

It's all opinions on here, but in mine, based on elasticity numbers the SPX and pivot are practically identical but the SPX is cheaper, easier to step in to in powder, and easier to swap brakes. And the din range is like 4 to 13 on this year's I think.

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They're the same price as pivot 12 here. But I will look more closely, thanks for the suggestion.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Go back and read my first post. DIN charts are correct, the boot will release at the right torque whether you're at the high or low end of the DIN range.

That doesn't necessarily mean they will ski the same, that they will behave the same up until the point of release. In fact, I'm positive they won't. I just don't know how the actual difference is.

And yeah, I know about fucking springs. I've mentioned here a number of times that my previous career was designing suspensions on race cars, which do in fact use springs.

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So you don’t know if there’s a difference but you’re positive that there is, even with your background designing race car suspension and knowing about springs? Crystal clear

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Eyeroll away, but my point isn't that the springs aren't linear.

To get to the same release torque with a soft spring (being at the high end of the DIN range) vs a stiff spring (being at the low end of the DIN range) requires different amounts of preload (more vs less).

With a lot of preload, the binding will be more resistant to initial movement, but will then progress through it elastic range more quickly with increasing torque. With little preload the binding will allow intial movement at a lower torque but will then progress through its elastic range more slowly with increasing torque.

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Everything you're saying makes perfect sense, but I'm fairly unconvinced it's noticeable. Unlike a shock on a bike, the binding isn't regularly moving through its travel. It'd really only potentially be noticeable in those situations where you start to release, but don't. Which at least for me isn't *that* often.

That aside, I still maintain that pivots ski better due to the short mounting platform. They let the ski flex more naturally.

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If you think that you can feel the difference of one-two cm smaller mount point under your rigid ski boot in the stiffest part of the ski you’re pretty sensitive. How does longitudinal travel fit in this equation?

This is my first season on a pivot after a lifetime on Salomon. I don't know if they ski better, but I believe they do... just based on elastic travel and mount pattern statistics. But what I really love is how low my dins are (nine) have never had any prereleases and the one release I had when I clipped a tree was super loose. My reaction when I kicked it off-- Wow, that was nice. I'm hooked. Zero effort to release exactly when it should have.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So you don’t know if there’s a difference but you’re positive that there is, even with your background designing race car suspension and knowing about springs? Crystal clear

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I'm saying I am positive there is a difference. Mechanically there has to be, that's just a fact. What I don't know is if the difference is significant enough to be noticeable to the skier. If Look wants to make me some custom springs to throw in my bindings I'd be happy to test it out for you.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

If you think that you can feel the difference of one-two cm smaller mount point under your rigid ski boot in the stiffest part of the ski you’re pretty sensitive. How does longitudinal travel fit in this equation?

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With a pivot, the distance from the front screws on the toes to the back screws on the heel is 28 cm (for my 305 bsl). That same measurement is 37 cm for a salomon. So roughly 5% of the ski's length (for my 187's).

I'm not saying pivots ski entirely different. It's subtle, and I'm sure it's more noticeable on some skis than others. But I've remounted skis that I know well with pivots from salomons, and the difference was noticeable (and better).

I'm just at the point where if I'm buying bindings, I buy pivots. I don't really see any compelling reason to buy anything else.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

But what I really love is how low my dins are (nine) have never had any prereleases and the one release I had when I clipped a tree was super loose. My reaction when I kicked it off-- Wow, that was nice. I'm hooked. Zero effort to release exactly when it should have.

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Same. Skied salomons for years. Had weird pre releases a few times a season (and yes, forward pressure, toe height, wings, etc. were adjusted correctly). Been on pivots for ~6 years now. Have never once had a pre-release, despite a lower din than the sally's.

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As an old dude with fucked knees that runs a seven point five din I’ve pretty much gone to attacks or spx on everything. Kind of want a pivot fifteen for these rDimes Marshal just delivered but not convinced about running at the low end of the spring. Carry on


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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

As an old dude with fucked knees that runs a seven point five din I’ve pretty much gone to attacks or spx on everything. Kind of want a pivot fifteen for these rDimes Marshal just delivered but not convinced about running at the low end of the spring. Carry on Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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How would you compare spx and attacks?

Other than subtle difference when clicking in I do not think I notice a difference. In general I appreciate gear that I do not notice because it is just doing the job at hand.


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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

As an old dude with fucked knees that runs a seven point five din I’ve pretty much gone to attacks or spx on everything. Kind of want a pivot fifteen for these rDimes Marshal just delivered but not convinced about running at the low end of the spring. Carry on


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Just get the 12s. They are a perfectly fine binding if you don’t care about being able to go to CAST.

Yes the toes are plastic, but so are the toes of most bindings. And if you only need a 12, you definitely don’t need metal construction.

Cast not a thing for me on this ski but color matching is!


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I run attacks, pivots and SPX in my quiver. I am of the impression that I have to run my SPX heels a bit higher to avoid over the bars releases. Pivots are a little more of a pain to get in than the others. I don’t really notice any difference in elasticity. I like all of them. I like the BSL adjustability of the attacks and SPXs so I can share skis with family members with different BSLs.

SPX and Attacks seem easier to install and adjust. Forward pressure is a little finicky on pivots. You can get more metal in pivots if you care about that. I have attack and pivot 14s and SPX 12s and the release seems to work fine despite being different levels from the end of the DIN range. I had a pair of skis mounted with demos when I bought them and then switched to pivots and I definitely could tell that difference.

More color choices in attacks. Cooler forza colors maybe for pivots and some SPX.

Remember - and this is important: pick a binding and be an ass about it.

*dick

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Same. Skied salomons for years. Had weird pre releases a few times a season (and yes, forward pressure, toe height, wings, etc. were adjusted correctly). Been on pivots for ~6 years now. Have never once had a pre-release, despite a lower din than the sally's. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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Yup, yup, yup..... Run Pivots one point down from STH. Never had a single release that I questioned. All of my bindings are Pivots except Duke PT16's and a pair of Shift.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

Yup, yup, yup..... Run Pivots one point down from STH. Never had a single release that I questioned. All of my bindings are Pivots except Duke PT16's and a pair of Shift.

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I must be a masochist. I do have occasional questionable releases from STH2s (should probably bump my heels up), but I still consider them my binding of choice. The driver toe just speaks to me and the heel goes click.

I've been warming up to the Strive (after getting past a really sketchy pre-release caused by shop not setting a demo binding correctly the first time I skied them), but I'm not sure if it really solves the problem as the higher DIN Strive 16 keeps the same STH2 heel. The lower DIN heel feels cheap, but maybe it doesn't have the prerelease problem--I haven't noticed it yet on my demo set.

One of the things I noticed when I switched to Pivots was not just the footprint is less, but it’s where the mass of the heel dildo is. It’s close to your boot. It seems like the swing weight is less. I know it’s subtle, but I’m weird that way.