The 300g Touring Binding Thread

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Failing to clear the pins and springs even once and the ski is very likely to fall off so after what some people term a pre release they just lock the toes.

this ^^ became most apparent to me using a light tech ski to set up B-nets for a race in a snow storm, I wanted the light weight for walking around but what happened was I couldn't/didnt always clear the pins or springs cuz I was carrying stuff so the skis fell off repeatedly

IME TECH bindings suck to work in

I do lock toes for the up because the heel piece is not there to hold the boot straight with the toes in the pins so the pins are going to release, that IS how they are suposed to work

As pointed out flippy lifters are a solution to a problem that didn't exist before the RAD1, every one of them out there is a ticking time bomb
whereas the Verts and Comforts did NOT break as long as the skier didnt try to use the pole as a lever instead of something to Rotate the heelpiece but even if a tower did break the heelpiece didn't explode

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Agree on all the above.
IMO if you spend the 15 seconds it takes to fully clear the pins, the area under the springs, and the fittings on the boots, you're G2G with 100% confidence and you know the clamps will only release when you start to tomahawk (assuming you haven't locked the toe that is). If you're in and out of your skis a lot though (patrolling/course prep/lots of short booters) it's easy to skip the cleaning part and then all bets are off.
A patroller buddy spent half a season on tech bindings because he refused to get a new pair of boots compatible with alpine bindings. He relented after 3 months of repeated pre-releases (usually right under the lift for maximum shame) and constant back and forth with warranty to replace chunks of his heel pieces.

Personally I have never had a Dynafit tech toe release that wasn't 100% due to user error (as you mentioned not cleaning the binding properly) or completely necessary (happens right as I start feeling like my knee is finally going to get it or because I hit a rock dead on at high speed). That's based on 10 years of touring with Vertical ST, Radical FT, Speed Turns 1 and 2, and Ultralites. I'm 175 lbs in the nude, probably 200 with gear, and I ski big skis with a style best described as angry charging moose. DIN is between 8 and 9. I only lock the toes in real no-fall zone or whenever I might flex the shit out of the skis (anywhere with compressions) and I hate it, I have visions of major DH falls on the WC circuit where the bindings never release due to the 20+ DIN and racers get tossed around until the ski itself breaks or they hit the nets. Having said that I've seen people come out of a tech binding at high speed for no reason whatsoever and I totally get the desire to lock the toes...

As for flippy lifters, fuck those things. As others have mentioned you can watch the Radical lifters flex at every step, it's not exactly confidence inspiring. I'll take the stripped-down metal volcano of the Speed Turns any day over those flimsy pieces of plastic. Takes a couple days to find the proper pole position to rotate without levering but the amount of force required to do actual damage is high enough that it's rarely an issue. The new crop of clamps is so over-engineered it has dozens of potential failure modes. The older versions weren't super sexy but at least they were sturdy and fool-proof...

It’s interesting to see people’s different perspectives on touring bindings. I think that the folks who ski a lot of backcountry prize reliability and weight over anything else and are willing to change their skiing style a bit (or don’t have to because they ski more conservatively far from civilization) while resorts skiers are always looking for the resort binding that you can tour on. Shifts are a perfect example, great features and safety but heavy and way more complicated any 300g binding.

I have both Kingpins and the original Dynafit Speed Turns with the Volcanoes. It’s hard for me to do a real comparison because they are mounted on different skis and I use different boots with them but for me I don’t think the Kingpins are worth the extra weight. For the powder day I do ski them in a resort I think a 300g binding would have been fine and I would have appreciated the weight savings on the skin track. Personally I wouldn’t trust any pin binding for real aggressive resort skiing but they are fine in resorts when there is soft snow and you are willing to ski with some finesse.

The funny thing is what I appreciate most about the Kingpins is their ease of use with touring. I have no snow build up problems with the toe (I have more problems with the Dynafits), they transition quickly and they don’t have any touring quirks like the brakes not staying down in tour mode or unwanted transitions from ski to tour mode. Also, after using the Speed Turn I don’t really care how easy a binding is to step into. Like others said, with any pin bindings you need to make sure to clear the snow and then it shouldn’t be too bad even without guides. Even better, don’t step out of the binding when you transition to ski mode.

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Originally Posted by hercule33

It’s interesting to see people’s different perspectives on touring bindings. I think that the folks who ski a lot of backcountry prize reliability and weight over anything else and are willing to change their skiing style a bit (or don’t have to because they ski more conservatively far from civilization) while resorts skiers are always looking for the resort binding that you can tour on. Shifts are a perfect example, great features and safety but heavy and way more complicated any 300g binding.

I have both Kingpins and the original Dynafit Speed Turns with the Volcanoes. It’s hard for me to do a real comparison because they are mounted on different skis and I use different boots with them but for me I don’t think the Kingpins are worth the extra weight. For the powder day I do ski them in a resort I think a 300g binding would have been fine and I would have appreciated the weight savings on the skin track. Personally I wouldn’t trust any pin binding for real aggressive resort skiing but they are fine in resorts when there is soft snow and you are willing to ski with some finesse.

The funny thing is what I appreciate most about the Kingpins is their ease of use with touring. I have no snow build up problems with the toe (I have more problems with the Dynafits), they transition quickly and they don’t have any touring quirks like the brakes not staying down in tour mode or unwanted transitions from ski to tour mode. Also, after using the Speed Turn I don’t really care how easy a binding is to step into. Like others said, with any pin bindings you need to make sure to clear the snow and then it shouldn’t be too bad even without guides. Even better, don’t step out of the binding when you transition to ski mode.

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I think the alpinist skis so so close to the kingpin. I’m pulling the kingpins off my praxis gpo UL powder BC setup to put alpinist on as there is no justification for the kingpins.

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

I think the alpinist skis so so close to the kingpin. I’m pulling the kingpins off my praxis gpo UL powder BC setup to put alpinist on as there is no justification for the kingpins.

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That’s the thing, everyone was so excited about the power transfer of the heel of the Kingpin but the reality is that in the backcountry I don’t find that extra power transfer that useful. Perhaps if I was carving up groomers or smashing through crud and moguls it would be a bigger deal but that’s not what pin bindings are for and not the conditions you encounter in the backcountry. And if I have to slow down a hair or use more finesse to ski bad conditions in the backcountry I just don’t care.

The flip side is that on the firmer conditions inbounds, I still find my Kingpins to be much harsher than Alpine bindings. It’s not even close, the difference seems like between a sports car and a softy sprung Lexus. In soft snow or powder the harshness disappears.

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Originally Posted by hercule33

That’s the thing, everyone was so excited about the power transfer of the heel of the Kingpin but the reality is that in the backcountry I don’t find that extra power transfer that useful. Perhaps if I was carving up groomers or smashing through crud and moguls it would be a bigger deal but that’s not what pin bindings are for and not the conditions you encounter in the backcountry. And if I have to slow down a hair or use more finesse to ski bad conditions in the backcountry I just don’t care.

The flip side is that on the firmer conditions inbounds, I still find my Kingpins to be much harsher than Alpine bindings. It’s not even close, the difference seems like between a sports car and a softy sprung Lexus. In soft snow or powder the harshness disappears.

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Agreed on the KP on firm snow.

Vipec was a huge upgrade in firmer conditions. Not alpine good, but much much better than the KP, even without the alpine heel.

Tecton is the cats pajamas.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Agreed on the KP on firm snow.

Vipec was a huge upgrade in firmer conditions. Not alpine good, but much much better than the KP, even without the alpine heel.

Tecton is the cats pajamas.

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Good to know. How honestly I have been a bit disappointed how my Lhasa Pow Hybrid, Kingpins and Salomon MTN Labs ski inbounds. I came with the expectation that it would be closer to an alpine setup than it really is. Two areas I have found lacking are deep crud where the setup seems to get bounced around more than I would like (this is a pretty heavy setup by backcountry standards) and firmer conditions which feel much harsher than an alpine setup. Don’t get me wrong, I can ski pretty hard inbounds but I wouldn’t consider this a 50/50 setup, more like 70/30 with the thirty percent inbounds being on soft days looking for untracked.

For me at least, the boot makes a bigger difference than the touring binding but I haven’t tried the Shifts or Tectons. Right now I agree that I would take the Marker Alpinist or Salomon Mtn/Atomic Backland over the Kingpin. If I skied more resorts, I would add an Alpine setup.

Any updates on the Marker Alpinist? I saw the discussion earlier in the thread, but am curious how they've been holding up. They can be had pretty cheap from euro-land. Personally, I never had problems with my old Marker Tours but I know their reputation. Looking for something with less ramp angle and better feel on hard snow than my Speed Turn 2.0s

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Originally Posted by EricB

@Lee would you say the Alpinists ski noticeably better than the MTN's? Or just compared to the older Dynafit's?

IMO the risers seems like the biggest deterrent to them for me.

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Just compared to older Dynafits. Added data point - Note that I can tour with toes unlocked both in MTNs and Alpinist. Not so in older Dynafits.

Comments about risers below

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Originally Posted by nickel

If only someone could've seen this coming!

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Disclosure that I did not pay for these. Definitely keep nickel's comment in mind re Marker's rep

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Yeah I’m going to say if you stomp on an ultra light riser in the wrong position you are likely to break it. These 300g bindings are not exactly fragile but do need care. Vibes to the sallied buddy too. Tech has its limits.

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Agreed its a puzzling design decision. I checked all fasteners on binding and all still tight

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Originally Posted by DolphinSki

Any updates on the Marker Alpinist? I saw the discussion earlier in the thread, but am curious how they've been holding up. They can be had pretty cheap from euro-land. Personally, I never had problems with my old Marker Tours but I know their reputation. Looking for something with less ramp angle and better feel on hard snow than my Speed Turn 2.0s

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Been skiing lots so catching up. So far so good. Broke the pull tab thingies off the binding right away but haven't bothered replacing them. I just use the pole tip to lever them open anyhow. If you cared to replace the pull tab a zip tie would probably do better but i want less complexity not more. Lots of pics of use in the Blister review so you can see the mechanism

They're still a pain in the ass to spin the heelpiece around so I just leave them in ski mode and put the brakes into tour mode and don't bother. When I need lifters (rarely) I flip the lifters on which means they're in highest mode so there's insubstantial leverage on them. They ski fine on groomers, on bumps, on slushy bumps, on fast, on pow ie feeling better than tech 1.0 bindings with heel-gaps as per my previous post. They release great on high speed tip-burial tomahawks. The brakes still suck on firm but do the job in pow. The toes are still harder to step into than most other tech fittings. Overall for their lower than most other offerings price they work fine. 25+ days on them now. 78 kg skier

Does anyone have experience skiing both the Zed and Alpinist? Blister seems to be convinced that the Alpinist skis smoother and has better power transfer, despite the design of both bindings looking very similar. The Zed has forward elasticity of 10mm, while the Alpinist only 4mm, which would lead me to believe that the Zed would be better in those too aspects. Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by jdadour

Does anyone have experience skiing both the Zed and Alpinist? Blister seems to be convinced that the Alpinist skis smoother and has better power transfer, despite the design of both bindings looking very similar. The Zed has forward elasticity of 10mm, while the Alpinist only 4mm, which would lead me to believe that the Zed would be better in those too aspects. Am I missing something?

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I do. IMO there’s not that much in it. They both ski great. I’d say the Zed feels a little smoother while the Alpinist might have a slight edge in terms of power transfer. I prefer the Alpinist as it’s noticeably lighter but if downhill performance is your chief concern, I think I like the Zed slightly better. The Zed also has better ergonomics switching between ski / tour modes and more convenient risers (the heel turret on the Alpinist 12 isn’t super easy to rotate, Alpinist 9 is better in that respect).

On the alpinist I wouldn’t really call it elasticity. More length compensation that as the skis flexes the heel of binding moves away from the boot. This removes the need for a heel gap and ensures a most consistent release from flat to flexed ski. But it’s not really elasticity.

Thanks for the input on the Alpinists everyone. Just got em mounted up to my Zero G 95s yesterday. Playing around in the living room, I don't have any problem getting the heel to rotate with my ski pole. We'll see if that happens in the real world. Right now I just plan on only using flat/high to avoid rotating back and forth. Will report once I get a few days on them.

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Originally Posted by DolphinSki

Thanks for the input on the Alpinists everyone. Just got em mounted up to my Zero G 95s yesterday. Playing around in the living room, I don't have any problem getting the heel to rotate with my ski pole. We'll see if that happens in the real world. Right now I just plan on only using flat/high to avoid rotating back and forth. Will report once I get a few days on them.

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I find I just stick with the low. Unless it’s really steep or really flat for long sections. It’s a nice height.

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

I think the alpinist skis so so close to the kingpin. I’m pulling the kingpins off my praxis gpo UL powder BC setup to put alpinist on as there is no justification for the kingpins.

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Gonna do the same (swap KP for Alpinist) on some Protests. Nice to be able to share the toe holes. Thanks for the comments!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by meter-man

Gonna do the same (swap KP for Alpinist) on some Protests. Nice to be able to share the toe holes. Thanks for the comments!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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Just know you will be a little forwards with a swap as for reasons only marker knows the pin line to hole position is not the same. It’s a little over 0.5cm.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bveoc-mg...=1mbqeemkrg10b

For info. His other pair had u pin cracks too.

Dude is also a guide so has an idea what he’s doing.

thanks for posting the link Cali. :)

Skied ATKs every day for two weeks and am a convert. Really like the low lifter which covers the pins. No need to rotate the heels. Also never locked the toes and never released on the up in varied conditions. Pretty impressive. Will try to find the model and update.

Edit: Looks like it was the rental model! Actually had Rent Me printed on them.

+1 for the ATKs. Skied for 1.5 season and its great. Exactly, low riser is awesome. The only annoying stuff is the front brakes, but 2020 Raiders and RTs got brakes at the rear.

I’m enjoying the low risers on the alpinist as well.

They’re dirt cheap right now too. Hopefully they don’t explode!

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bveoc-mg...=1mbqeemkrg10b

For info. His other pair had u pin cracks too.

Dude is also a guide so has an idea what he’s doing.

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I don't bother doing much pro insta fartsniffin
but tell your guide bro
tenkara is neckbeard hipster dapin for dinks for shit fuckers who aint got double haul skills
and troots on the rocks for a few insta likes sucks even harder
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWtEJg2BAGy/

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

I don't bother doing much pro insta fartsniffin
but tell your guide bro
tenkara is neckbeard hipster dapin for dinks for shit fuckers who aint got double haul skills
and troots on the rocks for a few insta likes sucks even harder
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWtEJg2BAGy/

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Guessing he ate it.

Some real deep sniffing there........

I know a guide who broke 6 rad heelpieces just walking along, also he probably used them about twice as much as the average skier so he is/was more likely to break stuff

Just finished a Week long tour on Salomon Mtn’s mounted on 186cm renegades. I had Kingpins before and love the new setup. About 20 total days on them. Simple and trustworthy for remote tours. I was getting stressed with the Kingpins.

Hit a few drops and pillow lines in the low 20 foot range with zero issues and no pre-releases.

165lbs 6’2” skiing the stock spring.