2019 4frnt Renegade Changes?

My 2019 renegades have been sitting in my living room for a week. I have bindings for them, but every day I look at them and hand flex them and I say no way. So soft. I don’t feel like wasting time and effort to mount them. They are the softest ski in my house. I’ve never had a ski last this long without getting mounted.
I’m sure they would be good for deep powder tree skiing only. But even then a rockered ski doesn’t need to be soft especially at 184. I think you would get thrown in the back seat a bunch when things get spicy.
The big mistake was changing the ski, without testing , going straight to production. It’s like changing your reknown recipe at a fine dining restaurant last minute and not even tasting it before sending it to the table.
They did come on here and give us the low down. But they kind of had too.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

Sooo a Mexican guy who has been skiing for all of two years knows more about making skis than Hoji or JLev even though he has never actually skied on the skis in question. Ha ha ha God I love the internet.


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Vibes for JLev. Seriously. That 200 day wonder is really going all in on making it clear he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.


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Originally Posted by Supermoon

I think most of the concern here is that the lighter weight and softer flex is because of a fuck up. If they had tested it and Hoji plus the other pros signed off on it, then I think there’d be a lot of trust in the ski.

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Agreed What they said was hoji signed off then we changed it. Lighter is not always bad as I found out with other brands. So we wait and see

I have some renegades that I love in 186cm for touring. I was planning on buying the longer length this year for a resort powder setup. I started this thread because I was curious about changes to the skis for the upcoming year and excited to get a set.

When I saw that they had moved production I decided to not buy a pair. This wouldn’t have happened if the skis were produced in Salt Lake. Not saying you can’t make great skis elsewhere but the althlete involvement in 4frnt and the hands on nature of the production always seemed special.

The skis didn’t turn out like they wanted. They might be fine for some people but given how obsessively Hoji works on his great and given that skis are all about incremental improvements; I’m not interested in the skis.

I bought a set of moments and set of priors instead.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

Sooo a Mexican guy who has been skiing for all of two years knows more about making skis than Hoji or JLev even though he has never actually skied on the skis in question. Ha ha ha God I love the internet.

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Y'all are a bunch of 4FRNT fan boi's. "For the love of all that is holy, how could you question the powers at be at 4FRNT? That is blasphemous! It will upset the sheeople herd and create havoc. Reform, infadel!"

The above quote is the sub-text I hear out of your post, Bro.

Let me give you a bit of advice, independent thinking can be scary, but it is a mental state that is more true to oneself. If my thinking scares you and rattles the piece of your ego that you've attached to 4FRNT, you should really work on finding a sturdier set of values for your ego. That is unless you like to feel butthurt on a consistent basis.

LOL. You fan boi's are soft. LOL

In all seriousness, I do know more than Hoji and JLev about skis that I WANT to ski. That is my decision. I'm not going to just sit there and accept a fuck up Bastard Renegade. You realize that one does not have to commit to a ski company for life, right? Keep reading posts, I'm not the only independent thinker in here.

I would guess that you may be wrong about that. Skilled designers know way more than the average Joe about how to build skis for the average Joe.

4FRNT has built some of the best skis out there for years, so any fan boi status they’ve earned. This board is not one to just jump on a hype wagon and never look back, but if you build a quality product and treat the customers right you will get loyalty from core skiers (se also ON3P).

The Renegade IMO was the best ski on the market when it was first introduced.

I agree that you shouldn’t have to ski a Bastard Ren, but maybe pump the brakes a bit til you learn a bit of the history of our sport and this board.

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Originally Posted by El Kanone

Sooo a Mexican guy who has been skiing for all of two years knows more about making skis than Hoji or JLev even though he has never actually skied on the skis in question. Ha ha ha God I love the internet.


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You realize nobody has skied this ski, right? It’s a mistake with thinner edges, bases and softer than the ski Hoji designed and intended it to be. Then 4frnt decided to just go ahead and send out to buyers only to notify them after payment. That’s pretty fucked in my book.
Yeah, love me sum internet as well. [emoji849]

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

I have some renegades that I love in 186cm for touring. I was planning on buying the longer length this year for a resort powder setup. I started this thread because I was curious about changes to the skis for the upcoming year and excited to get a set.

When I saw that they had moved production I decided to not buy a pair. This wouldn’t have happened if the skis were produced in Salt Lake. Not saying you can’t make great skis elsewhere but the althlete involvement in 4frnt and the hands on nature of the production always seemed special.

The skis didn’t turn out like they wanted. They might be fine for some people but given how obsessively Hoji works on his great and given that skis are all about incremental improvements; I’m not interested in the skis.

I bought a set of moments and set of priors instead.

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I was looking at Moments too. They look like a solid company for sure.

What Priors you pick up? I rode the Overlord about 3 days at Blackcomb and one of those was an over the knee, deep ass, champagne day. Glorious!

Rode the Patrollers 3 days too in less than ideal conditions, and they performed really well.

I just hope 4FRNT can deal financially with this mistake, stay afloat, and become a better ski company for it. I still think they should offer some custom options for their skis like flex and even different year models. Of course, that will mean higher prices for the build. But, a custom ski with ski builder input is golden. Keith at Praxis helped me dial in the perfect Protest for my height, weight, goals, and ski style. Stoked to ride those Babies when we get another huge storm.

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Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

Y'all are a bunch of 4FRNT fan boi's. "For the love of all that is holy, how could you question the powers at be at 4FRNT? That is blasphemous! It will upset the sheeople herd and create havoc. Reform, infadel!"

The above quote is the sub-text I hear out of your post, Bro.

Let me give you a bit of advice, independent thinking can be scary, but it is a mental state that is more true to oneself. If my thinking scares you and rattles the piece of your ego that you've attached to 4FRNT, you should really work on finding a sturdier set of values for your ego. That is unless you like to feel butthurt on a consistent basis.

LOL. You fan boi's are soft. LOL

In all seriousness, I do know more than Hoji and JLev about skis that I WANT to ski. That is my decision. I'm not going to just sit there and accept a fuck up Bastard Renegade. You realize that one does not have to commit to a ski company for life, right? Keep reading posts, I'm not the only independent thinker in here.

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LOL. It’s a wild thought but people can both make fun of you and not defend 4Frnt at the same time


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Originally Posted by powderslave

My 2019 renegades have been sitting in my living room for a week. I have bindings for them, but every day I look at them and hand flex them and I say no way. So soft. I don’t feel like wasting time and effort to mount them. They are the softest ski in my house. I’ve never had a ski last this long without getting mounted.
I’m sure they would be good for deep powder tree skiing only. But even then a rockered ski doesn’t need to be soft especially at 184. I think you would get thrown in the back seat a bunch when things get spicy.
The big mistake was changing the ski, without testing , going straight to production. It’s like changing your reknown recipe at a fine dining restaurant last minute and not even tasting it before sending it to the table.
They did come on here and give us the low down. But they kind of had too.

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Agreed. It’s a damn shame. So much hype. Finally a fat ski for the backcountry was gonna be added to the quiver... til the last minute news.

Looking forward to 2020 and hoping 4FRNT comes through to “Make the Renegade Great Again.”

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Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

Y'all are a bunch of 4FRNT fan boi's. "For the love of all that is holy, how could you question the powers at be at 4FRNT? That is blasphemous! It will upset the sheeople herd and create havoc. Reform, infadel!"

The above quote is the sub-text I hear out of your post, Bro.

Let me give you a bit of advice, independent thinking can be scary, but it is a mental state that is more true to oneself. If my thinking scares you and rattles the piece of your ego that you've attached to 4FRNT, you should really work on finding a sturdier set of values for your ego. That is unless you like to feel butthurt on a consistent basis.

LOL. You fan boi's are soft. LOL

In all seriousness, I do know more than Hoji and JLev about skis that I WANT to ski. That is my decision. I'm not going to just sit there and accept a fuck up Bastard Renegade. You realize that one does not have to commit to a ski company for life, right? Keep reading posts, I'm not the only independent thinker in here.

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Whoah... I feel deja vu here. I think I’ve seen these rants before...

This is the risk of cutting the middle man and buying straight from the factory. Being able to flex and inspect the ski before buying really is beneficial. Every pair is different. I liked being able to go into the white room and purchasing skis.

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Originally Posted by cravenmoorehed

This is the risk of cutting the middle man and buying straight from the factory. Being able to flex and inspect the ski before buying really is beneficial. Every pair is different. I liked being able to go into the white room and purchasing skis.

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That and I’m of the understanding they desolved the demo fleet to now offer a money back guarantee.

I said it before— it’s either crazy or genius.

No skis in the wild and pushing the online presence is sure giving online trolls a lot more power than previously anticipated.

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Originally Posted by cravenmoorehed

This is the risk of cutting the middle man and buying straight from the factory. Being able to flex and inspect the ski before buying really is beneficial. Every pair is different. I liked being able to go into the white room and purchasing skis.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

That and I’m of the understanding they desolved the demo fleet to now offer a money back guarantee.

I said it before— it’s either crazy or genius.

No skis in the wild and pushing the online presence is sure giving online trolls a lot more power than previously anticipated.

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Yup. Mos def. A lot of this was covered/predicted in the "Why 4frnt is blowing it..." thread. It's unfortunate that a lot of the concerns in that thread are coming to fruition.

Official mount point recommendations thread

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Originally Posted by MHSP1497

Whoah... I feel deja vu here. I think I’ve seen these rants before...

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Definitely feels familiar doesn't it (and hilarious sometimes).

Thread drift: What's a ski with similar dimensions to the Hoji but less reverse camber? 30m radius, 130ish-110ish-120ish, 1800-200g @ 185-190 length.

Beast 108¿

Maybe the Corvus 2019 also.

Praxis Backcountry

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Originally Posted by gramboh

Definitely feels familiar doesn't it (and hilarious sometimes).

Thread drift: What's a ski with similar dimensions to the Hoji but less reverse camber? 30m radius, 130ish-110ish-120ish, 1800-200g @ 185-190 length.

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Praxis MVP

Thanks dudes, given me some stuff to think about... won't be buying anything until spring/summer but may as well do the research now.

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Originally Posted by dcpnz

Sure sounds to me like a financial decision was made to save a few bucks in base and edge material and that has resulted in an unexpectedly compromised product that is now being pushed out on previously fanatical consumers but runs the risk diluting the brand

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Definitely not financial decision. We sell factory direct to consumer so we can afford to use the highest quality materials regardless of they're cost. If we wanted to save money, we'd be building them in Asia.

The reason for change is very simple, as you know there's an undeniable heightened awareness and customer sensitivity to ski weights in recent years specifically models used for BC and touring etc. Being that we've now introduced a series of skis with Metal construction in the past 2 years MSP 99 & MSP 107 that are less weight conscious, it only made sense to focus on making sure Eric's series stand out as lighter and able to be able to go head to head with other models on the market when it comes to weight while maintaining the power and feel they're known for.

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Originally Posted by JLev

lighter and able to be able to go head to head with other models on the market when it comes to weight while maintaining the power and feel they're known for.

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Unpossible.

Carry on.



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Originally Posted by JLev

Definitely not financial decision. We sell factory direct to consumer so we can afford to use the highest quality materials regardless of they're cost. If we wanted to save money, we'd be building them in Asia.

The reason for change is very simple, as you know there's an undeniable heightened awareness and customer sensitivity to ski weights in recent years specifically models used for BC and touring etc. Being that we've now introduced a series of skis with Metal construction in the past 2 years MSP 99 & MSP 107 that are less weight conscious, it only made sense to focus on making sure Eric's series stand out as lighter and able to be able to go head to head with other models on the market when it comes to weight while maintaining the power and feel they're known for.

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Let other ski companies make crappy lightweight skis that ski like shit. Stand on your own and continue to make the skis people love. Compete by making crap and you’ll disappear.


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Originally Posted by altacoup

Let other ski companies make crappy lightweight skis that ski like shit. Stand on your own and continue to make the skis people love. Compete by making crap and you’ll disappear.

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No intention to make crap, never have, never will. I think the weight difference is being blown a bit out of proportion here. Sit tight on this one and we'll continue to build skis with the same high innovation and downhill performance goals 4FRNT and our athletes have always maintained. Thanks for the passion!