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The damn story of any good ski-related equipment: discontinued to make room for new and innovative product that typically re-invents the wheel as an oval (at best) or a square (at worst), but LOOK AT THOSE NEW RAD COLORS!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
Yeah, I used to feel this way, but now since the Internet and the TRG’s, I’m less inclined to buy two pair of something for fear that they won’t make it again, because by the time it wears out & I want a new one there usually is some cool new technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
Granted I run warm and tour in the ever-mild-when-not-dumping Sierra, but I run the regular EB first ascent guide pro pants for 80% of my tours. They can usually be found on sale for $40-$50. Actually considering sewing my own thigh vent zips into a pair for those outrageously hot spring sierra days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
I have been loving https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/produc...en/?color=7911 the past two seasons now.
dig the cut and features but they get knocked for only really being fair-weather-worthyQuote:
Originally Posted by davjr96
Yep that is true and very fair, here in CA it is generally either blindingly sunny or full on hardshell weather so they work well for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Not sure why companies can't seem to get these right. Any pant that comes with a stretch type waist internal belt thing is garbage, as are suspenders. Just belt loops please. And skinny lower cuffs that you have to unzip the ankle to fit over a four buckle boot is unacceptable. Mammut used to make the Castor which was the best. I have a pair to EB Nail Drivers from some years back that are great. My latest is the Marmot Pro-Tour which are nice. They can be found on close-out right now. Highly recommend. Fit is full enough for my 220lbs, fabric is decent, belt loops with optional suspenders, wallet and thigh pockets, external zipper vents, not a fan of inner thigh vent zips. Plenty of room for 4 buckle boots. Not euro-slim at all.
There is no single "right" because people want different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Pabst
I'm 140#, very much "Euro slim". I prefer suspenders and would never wear a belt. I tour with the Alien RS, so a narrow cuff is perfect. I require thigh vents (though I like the huge outside ones). Nearly opposite on all counts of what you're looking for.... Good thing the market has choices!
^^ LOL. Yup the world would be a boring place if we were all alike in wants and needs...cheers!
Ski pants aren't included in the current patagonia sale, of course.
I bought a set, fuck it.
If I think the fit is worth the high price then I'll keep em and test thoroughly. But if the fit is off a little then they'll get returned.
I think the FA Guide Pro ski tour pants were replaced by the Mountain Ops Ski Tour pants. Basically a Nail Driver/Guide Pro Ski tour hybrid
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IME arcterxy got the waist belt and the inner boot gators all the features correct on their pro-cline pant but 3 pockets in a pair of softt shell ski pants so why not 4 why not just design in 2 pockets in each leg, they charged mega bucks and quit making the product, so WTFQuote:
Originally Posted by Fred Pabst
I bought an Arcteryx gama soft shell and the breast pocket is too small for a cel phone, who doesnt use a cell phone nowdays that they would want to put in a breast pocket ?
I got another brand of coat designed for lift skiing and its got one shitty little pocket just big enough for a pair of goggles on the inside, why not 2 great big pockets taking up the whole front of the jacket ?
SO I gotta wonder how does this stuff get designed and do the designers ever use any of it ?
It’s a tight fit but I can fit my iPhone 13 with an Otterbox in the chest pocket, but I agree, for a premium brand they should’ve taken these things into better consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Who makes a pair of ski pants with a cuff that will fit easily over a pair of boots? My old north face hyvent alpha full side zip pants that were about 10 years old finally died, and I started looking for replacements and the new pants I've tried on (some mammut, some OR) barely fit over my ski boots, one the snaps didn't even close and forcing the cuff over felt like it was going to sever my fingers.
Also, tried on a pair of NF pants, the freerider I think, in a medium and they were like 4" too long, so what is going on here?
I'm 6' 180 lbs with a size 11 shoe, so it's not like I'm some freak of nature, just need a good pair of pants.
Thanks I'm looking at these. In the interest of sizing, can I ask your height/weight, waist size in 'normal' pants and what size Upslope you purchased? I'm 'euro-sized' in the legs and looking at the 32 and the 30, shopping for waist size seems to have gotten trickier in recent years. Cheers, thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Got a pair of Strafe Cham last month when they had a big sale and figured I'd post an update. I'm 5'11" 165 lbs, 31" waist, 31.5" inseam, live in the Wasatch, 100% touring on 4 buckle boots (ZGTP), run super hot in general. Previous pants were the beloved and now discontinued Patagonia Descensionist.
Fit: got a size M which Strafe says fits 31-33" waist and 32-33" inseam. The pants are way baggy in the waist, to the point where I think you'd be happy with a 35ish" waist in a size M. The integrated belt doesn't do much at the end of its adjustment range, even after I shortened it by more than 2". Now it sits a bit weird due to some bunching fabric but at least the pants stay on my waist. I can't deal with suspenders but could see getting some external belt loops added to fix the issue. I could have gone with a size S, the waist worked much better but things got tight in the thighs which is a huge deal breaker for me. Even with the M I feel some light pull on the fabric around the thighs on long strides and I can relieve that by opening the vents a touch.
Lengthwise the pants are a bit long but I have stumpy legs. Fit over the ZGTP is tight when skinning (buckles opened but latched, loose power strap), there are definitely some spots around the buckles where the fabric gets pulled tight and could rip easily when fighting brush.
Compared to the Descensionists the fit is identical in the waist (the Gucci pants have a better waist belt after modification) but more manageable lengthwise for people with short legs (I step on my Gucci pants all the time). The Strafe are significantly tighter all around, not Euro race fit but definitely not baggy.
Features: bit meh. The pockets are fairly small and set more on the front of the thighs which I dislike. I want my beacon on the side, almost back of my thigh so I never feel it on tall steps. I usually have a fair amount of shit in the 3 pockets of the Descensionists: beacon, a Dermatone tin + stick, skin wax + mini scraper, Voile strap, occasionally buff and super thin gloves. There's no way that all fits in the 2 Strafe pockets, especially with the beacon occupying one on its own. As soon as a pocket has stuff in it I also feel it on my thigh through the fabric (the buckle of the Voile strap doesn't feel great after hours of rubbing).
I've covered the belt already, it's not great. The buckle is super low profile but a PITA to operate with gloves (I can't, unlike the one on the Patagonias which is equally low profile). The leg vents are great, really long, no mesh on the inside which is both a plus and a minus: maximum ventilation, high probability of shoveling snow in there when skinning in fresh snow.
I can't imagine every using the pressure buttons on the back of the cuff to tighten it. Useful when using crampons maybe? There's just enough room to go over an unbuckled beef boot and not much extra fabric when the boot is buckled.
The reinforcement on the inside of the cuff looks tough, time will tell how it performs. The fabric of the pants is quite fragile though and I had small holes in the cuff area where the buckle pull it taught after 1 tour. Disappointed on that front.
Comfort/warmth/waterproofness: the inside fabric is not as plush as in the Descensionists and I can feel a bunch of rough features inside (taped seams, edge of zippers, etc...). I rarely wear long underwear and the first 2 tours I got hot spots on my thighs and outside of my knees from fabric rubbing there. It's better now that I've modified the belt and the pants ride higher on my hips without bunching but I was a bit annoyed about how "unfinished" the inside felt. I've done mega days in my Descensionists without noticing I was actually wearing pants. I already miss that.
On the plus side, they're very light, very breathable, and warm enough to roam about in the low teens. I wore super light long undies in negative temps and never got cold, bet the pants will be awesome in the spring. They're probably a touch cooler than the Patagonias. I haven't had them in the wet yet (we don't do wet in UT) but I have spent a few hours wallowing in a deep booter. Legs go cold when pressed into the snow while trail breaking, legs got warm when following the booter, pants stayed dry after 2+ hours in the trench.
Overall the fabric feels softer, thinner, a bit more stretchy, cooler and quieter than the Patagonias.
Conclusion: they're OK, on par with an old pair of Dynafit softshells I used for 3+ seasons (before they became the Mercury pants). They're a distant second to the Descensionist and will be a good option for warmer days and shorter tours. Value-wise I'd never pay retail for those ($470), the current sales price below $300 makes them worth trying though.
Just got a pair of Norona Lyngen Flex 1 soft shell pants. I’m hopeful about these. Only major gripe is I have to sew belt loops on them. This ticked all the other boxes though such as being a little looser fit to accommodate knee pads that I almost always wear (insert truck stop lot lizard joke here), good vents, looks to be pretty beefy fabric, plenty of pockets with one to carry my beacon (not a dedicated pocket), then I’ll clip the lanyard to my belt loops. Bottom of the pants have a nice internal gaiter and plenty of room to have buckles wide open in tour mode. I’ll report back with how they actually work out once I’m off the bench late spring.
Another solid looking option, but was way to rich for my blood is the Elevenate freetour pants. Look nice but $240 on sale…fuck off.
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Stio Upslope pants arrived at the house today, I think they're keepers. Currently on sale for $179. Slim fit but not too skinny - I'm slim so works for me. Lots of pockets, key loop for beacon, thigh vents, cuff fits over my beef boots (Salomon Shift 120). It does have an internal belt, not sure if I care. The material is a tiny bit heavier than I was expecting, and overall these are not ultra lightweight - I suppose due to all the zippers and seemingly durable material. Specs say weight is 23 oz. I'm 5'9 140 and the size 30 waist fits. I typically wear a 31 or 32 in normal pants.
I also considered Patagonia Upstride, currently on sale for $139. These are lighter at 16 oz. But decided against, several critical reviews citing fit and durability issues.
PSA the Strafe Recon pant is 50% off. Fits over ski boots, super breathable. https://www.strafeouterwear.com/products/recon-pant
PSA - Stio Upslope now on sale for $119. Limited sizes.
PSA OR Trailbreakers are half off and they have most sizes in stock. They are great pants.
I have bought the strafe recon pant off the recommendations here. There are a couple big negatives for me, though:
1) The built-in belt isn't wide enough to really grip my hips, so the pants sag a lot with a beacon or just a cell phone in the pocket. I wish this just had normal belt loops. This is the big negative for me.
2) There is a beacon pocket, but there isn't any way to actually anywhere to clip the beacon inside it. I've resorted to using the belt buckle loops but then the beacon cord is dangling outside the pocket.
3) The material isn't super durable... but it breathers great!
I found a pair of libtech softshell hiker type pants for 4$ at a thrift store yrs ago, they have been my xc ski pant ever since
#1 is the only issue I've had with mine, and it is annoying. Basically cannot put anything in the pockets other than beacon. Mine have a sewn tether loop and a mesh pouch for the beacon in the left side pocket. Durability good for me so far on 2 pairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamtron
Why is absolutely no one making these type of pants with normal fucking belt loops?? Are belts really something the average consumer does not want to use? I just want to use my own belt damn it