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Who has seen/felt the Vertical ST in hand? According to Lou's blog and what I've read elsewhere the Verts are basically a Comfort with longer toe-clip and all plastic heel-piece. That so? What am I missing and why would I want them over the comforts? Reinforced volcanoes? What?
its the same thing with a reinforced volcano
its also heavier and has a more nicely integrated brake
the longer toe lever makes it easier to put into tour mode, but its seriously not a big deal, and i might even be more worried about breaking a bigger lever, but whatever.
and i didnt think jongs could participate in that group buy per all the stuff spthompson has suggested.
also try searching for jonathan s' thread.
Last year, there where reports of the Vertical volcanoe (heel lifter/heel rotator) breaking. The Comfort volcanoe breaks also, but at least it is field replacable and spares are light and cheap.
When I got my Verticals last year, I was told that they're seeing fewer problems with the Verts than the comforts. The toe levers don't break as easily, and work better, and the volcanoes don't break as easily. I'm a total AT JONG so I don't have enough personal experience to give any additional perspective. I have Verticals.
I've used Comforts for a few hundred thousand vert or so, and although I've never used the Vertical ST/FT or even ever seen a pair in the field, I did compare a Comfort & Vertical ST side-by-side in a store.
Executive Summary:
- Deciding between them has to be the least consequential decision possible in backcountry ski gear.
Details:
- The Vertical toe lever is longer, but it lacks that little side extension on the tradition toe lever, which some find useful. (And I've never heard of any standard Dynafit toe levers breaking, so this aspect seems more of just a personal convenience issue.)
- The Vertical heel lifter is supposed to be stronger, but it still can be broken, as that one guy demonstrated last year (when his attempt to accomplish the rando race scene exit-less turn>tour mode switchover became instead a beat-on-the-binding-until-it-breaks move).
- The Vertical heel lifter and top plate is an integrated one-piece plastic part, whereas the Comfort uses a separate plastic heel lifter screwed into a metal top plate. (So if you're really worried about breaking the heel lifter, as HtS says, you can bring a spare with you in the field.)
- The Vertical can use after-market Comfort brakes, although the brakes that come standard with all FT models and brake-outfitted ST models are styled somewhat different than the Comfort brakes, but I'm unclear on whether the functionality is any different.
- Weight as reported is 1 oz in favor of Comfort, but weight as tested is identical.
- Relying on reports of Comfort vs. Vertical ST breakage last season is difficult, because any reports would have to be adjusted for the # of units in use, and must be, what, 10x, 100x the # of Comfort in use vs. Vertical ST + FT?
fwiw - I've used Comforts and Vertical ST's. Haven't broken Comforts (volcanoes or otherwise).
I was a bit aggressive stomping on the toe lever of the Vertical and broke the plastic end of the lever. Dynafit/Lifelink replaced the entire toepiece without question.
can't see it mentioned here but the slot for ski crampons is more durable on the Vertical than the Comfort - the have added some metal bits
Starting in fall '07, the Comfort got the same toe plate with reinforced ski crampon slot as the Vertical ST/FT. (Unfortunately, some etailer pics confuse everyone by continuing to show the old Comfort toe plate.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arno
I've now posted my Dynafit comparison chart (as well as a Dynafit vs others chart) at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jshefftz/Dynafit
(Unfortunately the only two choices for magnification are too large vs too small, but I can email the original file if you want it.)
Thanks for the help. People voting with their wallet for this kinda stuff is probably a good indicator too, I would think. Comforts.
old info on my part - I bow to the Dynafit guru ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
so is the toe-heal connector the only difference between the vertical ft and st?
correct
(plus the wild euro colors for the ft vs the subdued gray for the st!)
I have the Vertical FT in hand, just waiting for the fresh snow. It seem to be more than a connecting plate as it wraps around the entire base plate of the toe and the heel. I have no idea how or if this will improve the binding. Has anyone skied the FT??? Also according to the website, there is use of titanium in the FT, but can't seem to find any on my pair. All the metal looks to be the same color as the TLT's.Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy
The other difference between the old TLT's w/ brakes and the new FT's is the shaped and molded brakes of the FT's. I'm guessing that is to reduce the brake problem with some AT boots?
I want to buy some Vertical ST's or FT's, and was wondering the same things. After looking at the Dynafit website, it seems like the FT's would be great for my Districts, but if the plate is cosmetic, then get the ST's, right?
I broke a toe lever on an almost new(3 days I think) pair of classic tlt's a couple of years ago. Snapped in the metal about halfway up. No I was not a dynafit jong, and didn't do anything I hadn't done 1000 times before. Bought them at the end of the season before and Lifelink(good ridance) shoved it up my ass and said they were out of warranty. My local shop was pissed and broke up a new set up to make it right. Reason #1 to support your local shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
I weigh 240 and am a hard user of gear and have 200 days on a pair of Comforts (including long days of resort skiing and week-long tours.) Never broken anything. Haven't completely mastered the Andrew McLean trick of switching from ski mode to tour mode but have tried it about 30 times with no damage.
I got my wife the Verticals because I wanted to check them out and she doesn't tour enough to give a shit or put a real workout on them. I didn't see anything special about them and thought they felt a bit rickety.
Joe, Don't get me wrong; I absolutely swear by dynafit bindings. Everything is breakable and I'm just relaying what happened to a pair of mine. I'm certain it had something to do with a weakness in the metal seeing as they were new and would have broken on anyone. Never had anything else happen to any other pair except a cracked volcano that I'm still using a couple seasons later. I should also mention that I was still able to skin out with my heel locked on that side, so it didn't leave me stranded.