Do it? Don't do it? Vist plates on Seths?

Hi there

Can't make up my mind whether to put a plate on my 06/07Seth's (189) as well as my other ski's.

As far as I can figure out...

Good points...

- I can switch the position of them fore/aft and try different mounting positions on them. People say between +2 and +5 is the right place to mount these (depending on personal preference) but I don't want to drill lots of holes in them, plus I can change the position depending on conditions and swapping with mates.
- Better leverage with a little height.
- The Seth has a reputation for being a bit soft, will the plate stiffen it up a bit? Or will this only be under the mid section? I'm thinking a soft tip for pow and stiffer under foot wouldn't be a bad thing?
- It's easier getting a few pairs into one ski bag - I'll just put my bindings in with my hand luggage.

Bad points

- extra weight; each plate weighs 600g/1lb 5oz on top of each ski which are 2400g/5lb 5oz, so we're talking about 3kg/6lb 10oz under each foot plus the binding! That could be really tiring for my skinny jong legs.
- I've heard of a loss of "feel" with the plates, does it really adversely effect the ski?
- lack of steeze.


What do you reckon? The alternative is to flat mount them after getting a campbell's balance point analysis, which should tell me where biometrically they should be mounted.



Cheers

Matt

plates make skis more turn. that is bad in a high speed straight line out of something, and that is good if you will need a hand turning.

a demo binding will help with finding the center point that you like, add less weight, cheaper, less lift (usually 5-10mm over the non demo) but then you also loose steeze, and some people have had issues with demo bindings slop.

Is it possible to demo a pair before mounting yours? You could play with all the mounting positions and then mount yours where you want them. Demoing skis is cheaper than Vists so you are now ahead of the game and you don't lose steeze points.

Live in Europe, unfortunately not many K2 demos available - off to Tignes in December and Verbier in January so will do some research to see if any K2 stockists there.


Cheers

Matty

Railflex bindings instead? somewhat more adjustable, like a demo binding, but less slop.

I'm considering VIST plates for the same ski, as well as my 191 Scott P4s (I guess we both bought from colaradofreeride heh) - mainly because it means buying two plates and one pair of toe/heel, so it's cheaper and lighter to take on transatlantic flights. But it's not something I care enough to sacrifice performance for... I do like the idea of not having to decide where to mount my bindings though. How much of a loss will I actually notice, keeping in mind I don't even know what "slop" means (though I can guess...)

don't
plate=stiff
seth=soft

really ugly combo

Ugly indeed, but it could provide the ride you seek.

I put a plate on my Motherships and it noticably improved the stability.

Pros: Improved damping, makes ski feels stable under foot but still soft in the tip and tail.

Cons: Heavier (you get used to that), and the binding sits off the ski further which I don't like.

I thought the Seths were stiff underfoot anyway, just with soft tip and tail

You get serious negative steeze points for even mentioning 'Campbell Balance Point Analysis'.

I vote NO on putting a plate on a Seth.

aside from the whole "plate" thing, VIST speedlock's are possibly the worst binding/ski interface ever. i've seen toes fall out while people are skiing, they are sloppy and super heavy, and basically a terrible idea.


edit: and if you are talking about a vist race plate, that is even worse. the under foot will overpower the soft shovel, making the ski feel very un-balanced.

I figure I'll threadjack rather than create a new one for this - what bindings are recommended on Seths/softer wide twins then? Backcountry have Look PX12's at $120 right now, seems cheap enough to grab two (fair bit cheaper than two plates + one set of heel/toe) - thoughts?

I just stuck a pair of 914's on my pair...I chose not to have a rear lift plate, which i guess is a option with the 914(i just verified this with the solomon store at whistler)

I didn't always believe the 'lift on fat skis sucks' thing till I put a demo binder on some solly guns so I could share them with the gf. They instantly became more grabby and were a lot less fun in both deep and shallow. Boo, don't do it.

About half of my skis have vists plates on them.. For me, the only issue has been the weight. It will also make the ride feel a little stiffer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iriponsnow

don't
plate=stiff
seth=soft

really ugly combo

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Not so. Either the Speedlock TT plate or the new Speedlock Pro Super Light plate adds no stiffness to the ski.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

........i've seen toes fall out while people are skiing.......

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:confused:, Never heard of that one! The plates have a locking mechanism so can't see how that's possible unless the user's were idiots & didn't have the bindings installed properly in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

........they are sloppy.......

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Loads of racers in Europe are using the Speedlock system without any problem whatsoever. I base prepped two pairs of new SL race stock skis this week that belong to a local racer. I then re-mounted his two existing 3yr old Speedlock plates. He's been constantly switching his Speedlock 10-18 race bindings between the plates over the last 3 years & there was NO slop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

........they are super heavy.......

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yes the race plates are heavy but the TT/Pro Super Light freeride plates are a lot lighter at 578g/564g per ski respectively. As the weight is directly underfoot the skis swingweight is not affected. Granted it adds to the weight if skinning or hiking but many users feel this added weight helps stability.

I love the add lift and skis magically 'become turnier' line. I believe an appropriate amount of lift to ski width will put you in a more neutral and stronger position to work the ski whether that is to get it on or get it off edge. Yes you can get more edge angle and turn more effectively but you are also in a better position to moderate that edge angle and control it unless you are so use to no edges that the very sensation of them screws with your mind. That being said I don't know much about the particular vist plate you're considering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

:confused:, Never heard of that one! The plates have a locking mechanism so can't see how that's possible unless the user's were idiots & didn't have the bindings installed properly in the first place.

Loads of racers in Europe are using the Speedlock system without any problem whatsoever. I base prepped two pairs of new SL race stock skis this week that belong to a local racer. I then re-mounted his two existing 3yr old Speedlock plates. He's been constantly switching his Speedlock 10-18 race bindings between the plates over the last 3 years & there was NO slop.

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i have personally seen one of the testers that developed the system have their toe fall off while skiing a chute. he reported that this happens REGULARLY while freeskiing with this system, and can't wait to never ski them again.

racing is alot different than banging bumps, landing cliffs and such. MUCH differnent. skiing edge to edge does not do alot to wear the system. landing a 30 footer to flat hardpack definately does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

yes the race plates are heavy but the TT/Pro Super Light freeride plates are a lot lighter at 578g/564g per ski respectively. As the weight is directly underfoot the skis swingweight is not affected. Granted it adds to the weight if skinning or hiking but many users feel this added weight helps stability.

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fair enough.

Am I the only person that thinks it is moronic to put a plate on anything but a race ski. If you need to lift yourself on the ski to make it turn, you should possibly think about taking a lesson. And this is coming from a person that despises ski instructors, and all the other ilk associated with them.