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Ok, so I'm a total JONG with regard to this, and I'd appreciate any beta on beacons. I'm going to venture out in the BC this year, and might even fend for a cat or heli trip. And of course, I need to take an avy course too.
So, what's your favorite beacon? Why?
I assume they're all compatible (Recco excluded of course).
I'd get the BA Tracker. I currently use the old Pieps 457, and while it works, the Tracker will cut down your search time dramatically, especially if you're not experienced. The Tracker just uses a simple LED arrow system to point you to the victim. Very simple to use.
Yeah, I use the BCA Tracker DTS too.
http://www.bcaccess.com/bcaproducts/...acker_home.php
It's super easy. In fact, that's sort of it's weakness. It's so easy at long and medium ranges that people get sort of spazy at real short range when you have to switch over to a grid search.
It's a minor complaint. My Tracker has been with me all over the place. I've never had to use it for real yet. (knocks furiously on wood...)
BCA DTS Tracker is hard to beat. Very user friendly, but has a shorter range than some of the others.
Barryvox.
Easy and digital like a DTS Tracker, can have digital display and analog beeps at the same time, so tiny you won't mind wearing it all the time.
www.mooremfg.com has good prices on all your avvy stuff.
I live by the Ortho F1. Works great for multy vic searches. Most patrolers and guides still use this one. Well all the one I know for that matter.
Tracker is hard in that situation. tracker is said to be easy for single vic searches given.
Barryvox is good but complicated to get to know. You like to fiddle, get a barryvox ( expensive thought)
I hear the X1 would be the best of both worlds... Analog digy combo ( automatic swith)
Actually, even Ortovox admits that the x1 is good for novices, while more experienced users should get the M1 because of greater range.Quote:
Originally posted by Gorillo
I hear the X1 would be the best of both worlds... Analog digy combo ( automatic swith)
http://www.ortovox.com/eng/produkte/...at=11&prod=111
I have used the BCA and it is pretty idiot proof in single beacon searches and not bad in multiple searches (especially if you learned on a skadi)
If i were in the market for a new beacon, which i probably should be soon, id probably get the x1
currently i have an f1, and am pretty happy with it.
I agree 100%Quote:
Originally posted by Gorillo
I live by the Ortho F1. Works great for multy vic searches. Most patrolers and guides still use this one. Well all the one I know for that matter.
Ortovox F1
I love it! It picks up signals before the digi beacons do and I have a much easier time with multivictims and distinguishing between their signals than the digital becon people did.
Of course this is all beacon drills, not a real rescue.
With only a little practice I was consistently beating the digital trackers.
The F1's also are rock solid. I have had a guide and two patrollers tell me that they have seen trackers malfunction after minor hits and there is a record of a tracker failing in an avalanche due to impact (of course this killed the wearer as well).
If you aren't gonna practice at all, you are probably better off with the digitals...
Actually, every single guide I've ever skiied with (including Dean Cummings and Spencer Wheatly) use Trackers.
BUT
This is a very old argument. The fact is, your beacon is just a very small component of organzing a sucessful rescue. Buying one brand over another is unlikely to significantly alter your success rate as compared to extensive, on-snow training.
So get what's cheap and spend the leftovers on training. (Get your b/c partners trained too... you're putting your life in their hopefully capable hands.)
I would go digital, they extra bucks are well spent. I use a mammut barryvox and the little thing rips. It doesnt weigh anything, gives distance to burial and direction, will do multiple burials, and is real intuitive to use. Analog gives you a little better distance, but for a newer user I think digital is the way to go.
"At the beacon competition of the 1998 Avalanche Professionals Conference, the Tracker DTS wasn't allowed because it was considered to be an "unfair advantage"."
http://www.gearreview.com/beacons.asp
If I am ever suffocating under tons of snow, I sincerely hope that the people looking for me have this "unfair advantage".
Even trained avalanche professionals are faster with a digital beacon:
http://geosurvey.state.co.us/avalanc...8_summary.html
The only reason to have an analog beacon is that you have been a professional ski patroller for years, practice every day, and it's what you know. Anyone else will find buried friends faster with a Barryvox or Tracker. (The X1 has problems: see http://telemarktips.com/forums/Avy_S...osts/2195.html, as does the Arva).
If you don't believe me, go out and do some practice searches with both and compare your times. This is what I did, and the difference was night and day. Stand there spinning an F1 trying to figure out whether the beep is getting louder or softer while the wind howls and your ears freeze, or follow an LCD arrow on the Barryvox that says "THIS WAY TO THE BURIED GUY, 25 METERS".
I know I'm being obnoxious here, but the evidence tells me that I am less likely to die if you have a Tracker or Barryvox.
Thanks everyone for you opinions! I was just about to pull the trigger on a Barryvox when Sobchak emailed me about this Couloir article:
"Pieps, the brand that was once synonymous with the term avalanche beacon, is poised to deliver a revolutionary new beacon to the market this season. The current U.S. distributor for Pieps, Liberty Mountain Sports, confirmed the news but did not have any samples as of September 2003, nor did it disclose much about the beacon other than it will utilize digital signal processing and have a range of 50 meters (165 feet). Though they did not confirm it, the new beacon reportedly will have three receive antennas to yield much faster and more accurate pinpoint searching. The third beacon will also make it possible to discern, not only when there are multiple victims, but how many. The new Pieps avalanche beacon is supposed to be available before Christmas 2003."
http://www.couloirmag.com/mfgs/pieps/Pieps_3ant_web.jpg
Damn, I was going to buy a Mammut tomorrow with my 20% REI coupon. Found this on CSAC:
"The New PIEPS - DSP is Here !!
Web posted July 15, 2003
We have been working on this new avalanche transceiver for a long time but now we have finished the work! At ISPO in Munich between February 1st and 4th we presented the PIEPS - DSP for the first time.
The new PIEPS-DSP is a brand new designed full digital avalanche transceiver with following main features:
Compatible with all avalanche transceivers working on 457 kHz
Digital range more than 50 meters
Indication of direction and distance immediately after first signal received
Indication of the number of victims
Signal selection
Additional features: altimeter, compass, thermometer"
Number of victims... Nice. Other features: Not good. I mean, a good idea, but how many people will then start having that thing in their pocket or hands, and lose it when being tumbled in an avalanche? Anything that requires you to get the thing out of a harness is bad IMO. Now, an MP3 player with its dedicated 2 batteries and a remote on the headphone cord, that'd work.
The question is if it's going to be a $300 beacon like the other ones or if it's going to make the price jump some more.
drC
I sort of agree. Hopefully though, people will only be taking it out when they're in a safe place. We'll see though...Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Crash
Nice. Other features: Not good. I mean, a good idea, but how many people will then start having that thing in their pocket or hands, and lose it when being tumbled in an avalanche? Anything that requires you to get the thing out of a harness is bad IMO.
However if you've just pulled you buddy out of an avy and he/she is injured, then these could be helpful features if say you have to find a way out or radio for help.
Naturally, I'm just talking out of my ass. I did flunk out of the boy scouts. "Chop wood? Isn't that what chain saws are for?" :D
If they didn't have any for demo's last month, I wouldn't count on them having enough in stock for Xmas delivery. Besides the wonderful thing about REI is you can always return something...Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Crash
Damn, I was going to buy a Mammut tomorrow with my 20% REI coupon.
I agree about the return. Hmmm, return my use-twiced Raichle boots because Life-Link has them 50% cheaper? Na, too much trouble. But a barely used beacon? Maybe.
With this in mind, I am now the proud owner of a Barryvox that I bought this morning. The one and only one in my local store. I am psyched!
drC
I still use a Pieps 457. What I like is that it's simple. When I practiced with some others who had digital beacons I was finding the hidden beacon just as fast as they were. Arty it doesn't really matter what type of breacon you choose to use as long as you are efficient with it. Practice!
I'm sure some of the new ones have all kinds of wonderful features but keep in mind it only needs to do 2 jobs transmit and recieve (it doesn't have to fly to the moon).
Cheers!!
What do you think about the Ortovox M1? I know it was one of the original digital + analog beacons, and I think the controls look sensible, but what are other opinions? Rumors? Experience?
I have the M1.
Like it just fine. In practice, I was as fast as others, and picked up a little earlier than most too.
I have two m1s in good shape I'd sell for cheap, like $125 each or so (?? haven't really thought about it yet ??), if anyone is interested; if I can sell em both, I'll buy myself a new m2 or Tracker.
Because it can't be said enough. I'd take a well practiced user with any beacon over an inexperienced user beeping with all the bells and whistles.
Ive seen M2s and M1s break while skiing. The little prong piece breaks off disabling the beacon while skiing.
The X1 is a train wreck. I'm sure you could get used to it but I and someothers found it very non-intuitive. The processor on the dual attena seemed slow to zero in on the direction and the visual display didn't portray distance anywere close to acurately.
The Barryvox/Burton Red seems to work pretty well. Unlike most others, it has a bunch of settings to jack with. I personally want minimal gadgets in a life of death situation (I would like a spell checker on the board however). Small with a good harness system.
I think I'm gonna check out a BCA this year. I don't know anyone, pros included, who've "switched back" I've heard conficting opinons about multiple victum searches. I tried it a few times and did not have a problem.
I've been using an F1 Focus for about 8yrs now. I think it is an exceptional piece of equipment. The simplistic functional design is outstanding. Why doesn't every beacon have a forced on? The harness is very comfortable. The key to this beacon is learning tanget line searches.
A couple things about beacons. I don't think max range is that important of a feature. You should be able to tell when the victim was deposited within about 30 meters. Consistancy and reliability are just as important as speed (I'd rather you find me in 1min 10 of 10 times than find me in 20sec 7 out of ten times). Get a device you understand and trust and practice.
Most importantly, learn the other 95% of avi safety besides your transciever. Pick your partners carefully, and make every ascent with the understanding that avi conditions may force you to have the safe road home.
Ortovox M2.
i got i cheap and it has a reaaaalllyy long range.
i compared it to the barryvox(mammut) while practicing in April and the thing was: when the sending unit was near the barryvox was slightly faster because of the "go there arrows" but the M2 picked up a signal Over 10m before the barryvox. So i am quite content with what i got.
Multiple search is really easy with the tracker if they let you turn each tranciever off when you find it. Otherwise, it can be REALLY hard.Quote:
Originally posted by onehotchili
i have a couple of F1's and swear by them. however, they are only good if you practice, practice, practice. that is true with any beacon you can get.
as a side note, a few years ago in an AMGA course in AK, I heard that Steve House (a sick mountaineer, climber) set the record for a multiple search drill they were doing. something like 6 recoveries in 2 minutes. he was using a Tracker. of course, when asked about how much time he had trained using the BCAcess Tracker, I think it was something like 20 hours! i might be exagerrating or getting the story mixed up, but you get the picture. practice, practice, practice, and pray you never half to do it for real.
Last time I did multiples, they stuck 2 practically on top of each other. Because I could turn the first one off that I found, I kept thinking the second was the first. It sucked. :mad:
Lesson is: if you've got multiples, turn victim's beacons to recieve as you find them.
Ok, so let's say you're doing multiples and you have several people to dig. One person searches and the others dig as the victims are found (disclaimer: I have no idea if this is the proper procedure, just talking out of my ass). Obviously, you don't have the luxury of turning off each person's beacon since they're all burried. Then what do you do?
The Tracker has a special mode that helps with multiple victims. The special mode narrows the search signal. It's kind of difficult to explain.
Imagine the stars below represent the searching beacon.
If the normal mode looks like this:
*************
--**********
----********
------******
-------****
---------*
Then special mode looks like this:
------****
-------***
--------**
---------*
This forces the Tracker to ignore signals you have already located. It comes down to knowing the Tracker and knowing how to search with it. Knowing how and when to use the special mode of the Tracker makes a big time difference in multiple burials.
Also, if your party is big enough you'd want to have more than one person searching.
Well, every situation is different. If you're by yourself, the "by the book" way to conduct multiples is to locate a victim, clear their airway, then proceed to the next victim. When you have multiple rescuers, now you're into a situation where the best use of the group is harder to determine.Quote:
Originally posted by Arty50
Ok, so let's say you're doing multiples and you have several people to dig. One person searches and the others dig as the victims are found (disclaimer: I have no idea if this is the proper procedure, just talking out of my ass). Obviously, you don't have the luxury of turning off each person's beacon since they're all burried. Then what do you do?
btw factoid: it's always good to have a "leadership chain" so that if a few people go down, you instantly know who's leading the rescue. It's also good to know more or less what each person can do: beacon skills, medical skills, etc...
If you know 2 people are down, but it only looks like one signal, maybe they are right on top of each other. Maybe you can have one person continue to dig on victim 1 to turn their tranciever to search while you have a second person continue down the slide path to see if they can get another signal. If you have more searchers, and a really big slide path, maybe you can send 2 down
btw factoid: it's a hell of a lot quicker to go down the slide path than it is to go up it. Plan all rescues such that you can't possibly be caught having to go back up hill.
Which brings up another btw factoid. Always know how many people are in your party, and thus how many are buried. Sound pretty trivial, but if your in a large-ish party, and the pow is really good, it can sometimes be hard to remember. Was it 6 or 7?
These kind of rescues are always very fluid situations. The ability to roll with it (and hoarding information upfront to mitigate) is the key.