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Hot Damn
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2007...aru.afp.gi.jpg
Subaru debuted its redesigned 2008 Legacy at the 2007 Detroit Auto Show along with a new 6-cylinder version, the Legacy 3.0 R Limited, which features a 3.0-liter, 245-horsepower engine; 18-inch wheels; and a stiffer suspension. The front grille is larger, and the headlights and taillights are restyled, as is the instrument panel inside.
Here come the Audi owners - waving their dicks around and beating their chests about heated seventeen way power adjustable seats and triptronic quantum scientific referential gravity calculators...
Then come the Subaru lesbi-dorks in immediate retaliatory defense, grandstanding on a platform of reliability and economy.
All on a car that hasn't even been driven yet.
..Wait for it...
I still have my '95 Impreza with some unique styling of its own...
Ummmmm.....
It's a mid-cycle refresh.
Basically, they're taking the 3.0 liter engine that they put in the Outback and putting it into the Legacy too.
Look at the specs, though -- that 243hp is a whopping 2hp gain over the turbocharged 2.5 liter four. One horse per cylinder. Whee.
Oh, right -- and it gives up 26 ft-lbs of torque to the smaller engine.
And comparing the 3.0 liter to the 2.5 turbo in Outback trim, it looks like a weight gain of 75 pounds for the bigger engine.
And not surprisingly, between the increased weight and the lack of forced induction, you'll get worse mileage -- in the Outback, the 2.5 turbo rates 21/27, while the 3.0 rates 19/26.
And all the above, except the weight, gets worse the higher you go above sea level, where a turbocharger's benefits only increase.
Let's review: A slight increase in horsepower but less get-up-and-go (a.k.a. torque), worse mileage, and worse performance in the hills. Where do I sign up?
This is even stupider than Saab swapping out the 9-3 Aero's turbo four for a naturally-aspirated V6 with the identical output, because the Subie sacrifices torque while gaining the extra cylinders.
Oh, but at least you get the 18" wheels. And the two extra cylinders.
EDIT: Yes, I believe in the inherent superiority of turbocharged engines. I believe in it because I can't think of another technology that will give you better performance and better mileage without depending on the driver to do anything different. A car with turbo and stick shift will see at least a 20-25% mileage improvement over one with a naturally-aspirated engine with similar specs, and will perform better to boot.
justy owners unite and rage!
I don't get it. Hot damn what? You could buy a turbo version, throw different wheels and tires on it (the stockers are guaranteed to suck, knowing Subaru), and upgraded suspension, and have a far better car.
Ding ding ding.
Alternatively, you could buy the Mazdaspeed6. Unfortunately, it lacks a foldable backseat, because they ran an extra brace there for structural rigidity over the stock version.
Why? Unless you live in a perfectly paved world, you'll be buying a new set before 40,000 is up.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad
I read the other day about sumthin' that explains all these new ugly bolbous front ends on the new cars (re: Audis). The Europeans are requiring a higher front end for pedestrian safety.
I'm curious: how does the higher front end improve pedestrian safety?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
If you run over an Euro-ped, do they safely pass beneath the undercarriage, like a possum? ;-)
Seriously, though, I'm interested in the thinking behind it.
MazdaSpeed 6 has quite a bit more power... 270+ from it's 2.3 liter turbo 4 if I recall correctly. I haven't test driven one yet but it's definitelt on my list.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad
Ans the seats can fold down if you don't mind doing a little customizing. All the foldy bits from the regular Mazda6 are still there but you need to do some "customizing" to get it to work and fit skis/boards through :cool: Check out this Mazda Forum for info.
Here's a pic:
http://www.xplorx4.com/mazda6/trunk_...seats_down.jpg
Why won't they bring this to the states (or any Legacy wagons for that matter)?
http://images2.carview.co.jp/news/ca...153728_1_l.jpg
Benny: Check your sarcasm meter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Legacy wagons are widely available in the US. Unfortunately, in the current incarnation, they only made the GT (turbo four) with a stick for the first model year. You can get the same engine with a stick, but you have to move "up" to the Outback and suffer the higher ride.Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
Dropping the FI???
Lammmmmmme.
NA 6s suck bigtime compared to Turbo 4s. Weight is negligable due to all the extra hardwear for the turbo adds a lot of weight. But NA loses a lot of torque, which is FAR more important in drivability than horsepower. But HP sells cars, not Tq. Plus, that Legacy just became damn near impossible to modify for more power without dropping some serious coin. It'll likely be hyper-tuned as is, so not much can be done, as opposed to turbo-4s that are generally greatly de-tuned.
There goes my plan of someday buying a brand new Subaru Legacy.
I'll bet because the WRX wagon fills most of that market need here, and the rest of that market pines for a hot rod SUV. And the wheels are way too big and fragile.Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
I still like the Turbo over the 6. I am a Legacy wagon owner. I prefer it over the Outback.
The 250hp 2.8L V6 is turbocharged, Ranty McRanterson. The engines in the prior 9-3 Aero's were the 2.0T 210hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad
You're right. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoober
I should've said that I was comparing the 2.8L V6 turbo from the 9-3 Aero with the tuned 2.3L straight 4 turbo from the 9-5 Aero.
It actually makes my point better, because the net result is that Saab is now selling a smaller 9-3 Aero that's slower 0-60 and gets worse mileage, compared to a larger, faster, more fuel-efficient 9-5 Aero.
There's a reason they call this kind of thing a no-brainer.
And you kids better get off my lawn.
Supposedly the Impreza "wagons" are actually gonna be more like hatchbacks for 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Still, none of that explains them eliminating the Legacy Wagon all together in the US. While a nice vehicle, the Outback is an unacceptable substitute in my mind.
nice Altima.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rideski
Damn, I had no idea Suby eliminated the legacy wagon altogether. From a purely anecdotal perspective (ie, the shitload of legacy wagons i see on the roads here in UT), that seems like a strange business decision. Bummah.Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
Is the Spec B gonna be available again in 08?
I do believe so, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by stump832
Turbos are great for the power/weight and power/size ratios, but there are impelling reasons to buy a 6 over a turbo 4.
Noise and vibration - it's much easier to balance a 6 than a 4, and the 6 will run at lower rpm's
Gas - you don't have to run premium fuel and I've never seen a turbo 4 that gets 25% better gas mileage than a 6 of the same power. In fact, the outback xt and outback vdc get the same horsepower. If you were to drive a turbo 4 extremely conservatively you could get much better gas mileage, but then why would you have all that horsepower that you're not using? There's no such thing as free horsepower. Turbo just affords you the option of not using it if you don't want to.
Reliability - no turbos to replace for one, oil temps stay lower, engine speed is lower
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerham
Gas - Turbo cars don't REQUIRE premium fuel... They run maximum power with premium. A turbo car with 87 octane fuel in it will do a few different things... Pull timing, or reduce boost.
Many NA motors require a premium fuel to hit advertised power outputs anyways, which you'll find only by reading the owners manual.
Engine speed on a well designed factory turbo car does not need to be higher. My 1995 DSM with a stock Garrett T25 turbo is producing boost as low as 1200 rpms, and it has enough tq to drive thru town comfortable in 5th gear at 30mph and not need to downshift to accelerate, which is much better than any NA car I have driven.
Also a turbo motor generally is a much stronger motor due to compression differences and componant strength due to increased pressures it might encounter.
As for fuel economy... where else can I find a motor that isn't turbo, that can allow me to run a 13 second 1/4 mile, yet still get around 30 mpg in daily driving situations?
Not only is the Legacy wagon gone for 08, the Outback sedan is also gone.
Max is waiting for the 2008 LL Bean Edition. ;)