Shovel List

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10-20-2006, 10:21 AM
The Dad

Request: Recommended Beacon/Probe/Shovel List

It's the time of year when lots of people seem to be asking which avy gear to buy.

If the backcountry gurus on the board were to develop and maintain a thread a la marshalolson's Recommended Skis & Bindings List, which could then be stickified, I would think it would forestall lots of JONG questions (or at least give folks an easy thing to direct to), and would provide a valuable public service.

I tend to resist suggesting that others take on work that I will not myself, but I am entirely incompetent even to put together the list of gear, let alone add anything substantive. So I throw myself on your mercy.
10-20-2006, 10:27 AM
summit

Beacons:
The beacon that works for you.
The beacon that you are familiar with.
The beacon that you practice with.

Best Beacons:
There are no bad beacons... only bad beacons for you. (Most people choose digital over analog as what is best for them)

Shovels:
Large blade of suitable quality
Long enough shaft (preferably extendable)
Quick assembly
Bomber Construction
D or L handle (no T handles)

Best Shovels:
SOS (customizable including optional internal snow saws)
Voile
BCA (the extendable ones or at least a Companion fixed D)
G3
Life Link (metal AND composite)

Recommended Probe List:
Longer than 240cm (no fit in shovel probes)
Oversized tip
Metal or kevlar internal tensioner
Quick assembly

Best Probes:
BCA: Profile 240cm QUICKIE & SR3 300cm QUICKIE (this years design makes the the best probes on the market)
Black Diamond: Super Tour 265cm & Guide 300cm
SOS: Standard 2.8 280cm & Ultra 3.2 320cm
Mammut: Expert 265cm
10-20-2006, 10:30 AM
PNWbrit

Understanding how to avoid needing to ever use them and knowing how to use them correctly if needed is more important than brand specifics.

Questions about avie gear will be answered at the avie course you should take prior to venturing into terrain where it needs to be carried.
10-20-2006, 10:36 AM
Toby

I like my 320cm G3 Speed Tech probe. You can add that to your list Summit. Gunna add beacons? I love my Pieps DSP. No experience with other brands, although I was tempted by the Barryvox (although not for beginners IMHO).
10-20-2006, 11:06 AM
summit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

G3 Speed Tech probe.

G3 probe assembly: throw-yank-push nut-screwscrewscrew

Best probe assemby: throw-yank (see BCA... black diamond...)

G3 recalled some probes a while back:
http://www.genuineguidegear.com/news_20030304.html
10-20-2006, 01:17 PM
cj001f

Life-Link Shovels
10-20-2006, 01:38 PM
AltaPowderDaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpinedad

I tend to resist suggesting that others take on work that I will not myself, but I am entirely incompetent even to put together the list of gear, let alone add anything substantive.

here's what others on the board have in their packs. there's some new gear and the thread is almost 2 years old but you might find some info there. http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22911
10-20-2006, 01:40 PM
pechelman

2nd on the BD 300cm Guide Pole
SUPER quick deployment, and really rigid.
quickly adjustable if needed, steel cable, and oversized head

2nd on the g3 shovel as well. Nice D-Handle, light enough, and the blade feels nice and burly. Fairly quick setup and decent length with both sections out.

it seems saws have been overlooked.
I have a life-link one which is nice for no other reason than its simple and light. I recently saw (no pun intended) BD's saw that attaches to a ski pole via their flicklock mechanism. Looks sweet.

If you dont have a flicklock pole, the g3 saw looks nice and has a very accomodating handle to strap it onto the end of a ski pole for extra reach.
10-20-2006, 02:17 PM
Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo

The G3 saw is nice but kinda bendy, not so stiff. You have to pay attention when cutting columns or you end up with hourglass shaped ones. But way light and it cuts wood and bone pretty well.
10-20-2006, 02:21 PM
cj001f

Winter Engineering makes a nice snow saw - available through wasatch touring.

If you snow geeky, the MEC Snow Study Sporran is a good way to keep all your crap together.
10-20-2006, 03:42 PM
~mikey b

I might try a new BD flicklock saw this season.
10-20-2006, 05:09 PM
The Dad

Quote:

Originally Posted by pechelman

it seems saws have been overlooked.

Because I'm a backcountry JONG. Thanks.
10-20-2006, 07:06 PM
smalls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summit

Longer than 240cm (no fit in shovel probes)

why is this (the no fit-in)? it's what i've always been told, but never with an explanation. insight?
10-20-2006, 07:12 PM
mc_roon

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalls

why is this (the no fit-in)? it's what i've always been told, but never with an explanation. insight?

because they are normally way to short to be effective. the BCA one is 180cm(6ft)....what if they are buried 7ft under? not the best quality either
10-20-2006, 11:41 PM
summit

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalls

why is this (the no fit-in)? it's what i've always been told, but never with an explanation. insight?

the theory goes that anyone buried deeper than x is statistically dead so you need a short probe... so then they justify the tiny probe in the shovel... 180cm... ok maybe that probes to X but with barely any of the probe is left above the snow... you CANNOT probe more than a few times this way before you start hurting. you cannot probe effectively with only 6" of probe out of the snow. it will make your course and fine probing much slower and less effective than when using a reasonably long probe that you can stand up with while you probe. heaven help you if you end up needing a probe line with a short probe you'll be in agony in a few minutes. the in shovel probes also tend to be flimsier than quality probes
10-21-2006, 04:54 PM
cj001f

The length doesn't bother me as much as the smaller diameter - which invariably leads to a flexier, easier to break probe. If you are using your probe for rescue of a companion wearing a beacon, you shouldn't be probing much.
10-21-2006, 11:51 PM
AltaPowderDaze

there are a myriad of reasons to carry good gear. the best one i can think of is that you're probably not going to be able to predict how and when you'll use it, unless you're a psychic. even good probes and shovels will break with continued misuse. shitty ones will break sooner than later. those thin probes that store in handles are weak, short and take too damn long to assymble, then reassymble your shovel.

no matter what you choose, be familiar with your gear and know how to use it properly.
10-22-2006, 12:27 AM
cj001f

No, you can't predict or prepare for every possible scenario. All gear will fail under some scenario. As with a first aid kit, your safety gear should match your parties level of skill, your parties tolerance of risk & the risk present in the area, and your parties desire of self reliance.

3 things to add to your avy kit:
- First Aid Kit
- Means of keeping someone warm & preferably off the snow
- Means of contacting rescuers.
10-22-2006, 01:04 PM
Dug

Going on cj001f's thought, in addition to waterproof matches that should be in your 1st aid kit, I usually have a small foam sit pad and a small metal (tin) cup in my pack.