Creative ideas for adjusting boot tongue flex?

I'm interested in softening up the fore/aft flex of a pair of boots. (They're Dynafit Aero Freerides.) They're laterally stiff, but I want to soften up the tongues. Unfortunately, the tongues are not detachable (a la Raichle or my beloved Scarpas), so I'm thinking of trimming some plastic off the tongues or scoring them. I'm curious if anyone has some ideas -- I'm open to any suggestions..

I've marked a few lines on this photo. I was thinking of removing triangular sections at the ankle (A), or maybe cutting out a small lateral section (B)...or possibly just removing some plastic from the sides (C). Bad idea? Better ideas? I'm listening.
http://ericbalog.com/tgr/boot_tongue.jpg

I tried to make this boring thread a bit more dramatic by using a photo of my boots with Mt Glory in the background through the window to my right (I'm sitting at my desk at home), but it didn't work out and I had to post the above photo. The dramatic difference in lighting cause one section to be under-exposed & the other to be over-exposed...and I don't feeling like throwing on the right filters to correct it. Oh well, here are two photos, instead.

http://ericbalog.com/tgr/glory_from_desk.jpg

http://ericbalog.com/tgr/boot_question.jpg

I'm sure there are more experienced boot guys here that will have better answers but if you choose to do A, I would drill a precise point at the inside point of the triangles so a crack doesn't start there and spread across the whole tongue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

I'm sure there are more experienced boot guys here that will have better answers but if you choose to do A, I would drill a precise point at the inside point of the triangles so a crack doesn't start there and spread across the whole tongue.

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and for christ's sake, start small

Thanks! Good tip.

To clarify, if I were to go the (B) route, I was thinking a long rectangular cut-out might work (leaving plastic at the sides).

I could also do several such small lateral cuts.

The tongue seems to deform a bit when flexed, which I think creates unusually stiff sections/uneven flex. I'm hoping to mitigate that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

and for christ's sake, start small

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Yes...definitely! Nothing dramatic...I'm just hoping for some ideas of where to begin. I'd never do something like make a bunch of changes at once. I'm hoping to make one change, see if it's enough, and then only continue if it's not sufficient.

Thanks, XtrP...

I would go with one or two vertical (in the same orientation as cuts C, but further toward the midline) cuts at the top of the tounge about an inch or so long with a drilled hole at the bottom to hopefully prevent cracking. i've seen this done before. it should allow the upper part of the tongue to soften up just a bit, nothing dramatic though. as a side note, this has got to be the first thread i've ever seen about softening an AT boot, isn't it usually the other way around? i'm jealous of your view, i used to see that daily, but no more....

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Originally Posted by wilcox510

I would go with one or two vertical (in the same orientation as cuts C, but further toward the midline) cuts at the top of the tounge about an inch or so long with a drilled hole at the bottom to hopefully prevent cracking. i've seen this done before. it should allow the upper part of the tongue to soften up just a bit, nothing dramatic though. as a side note, this has got to be the first thread i've ever seen about softening an AT boot, isn't it usually the other way around? i'm jealous of your view, i used to see that daily, but no more....

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Thanks for the thoughts. The boots are fairly stiff for an AT boot. I'm a huge proponent of progressive/moderate foreward flex (for my skiing, that is...your mileage may vary)....

I've actually done some work to stiffen up my Scarpa Denalis, then I abandoned all of that and realized I like to be able to feel the snow, and i get that in a way no Alpine boot has been able to provide for me. I can still drive a ski well, and I don't want to sacrifice the lateral stiffness of the boot. (If only my Scarpas were Dynafit compatible...)

I think the real issue is not that these particular boots are not "soft" (relative to an Alpine boot, that is) but, rather, that the flex is not even. It just feels like the plastic in this tongue gets deformed when flexed then creates some weird pressure points, providing a "weird" flex -- inadvertently stiff/stiff not by design but by design flaw.

That's just my opinion.

Yes, I realize how lucky I am to be able to sit at my desk and see that view (and decide whether to head up on the Pass for a lap). Could pretty much ski back to the door....

wait a second... i read somewhere the one of the AT boots has a bumper blocking the flex in the back... lemme try to pull up if it was the aero's . that might be a better option?

Looking at it, there's got be a downhill rec boot with a similar tounge and attachment. Most boots are made in the same place in Italy. Or leave the tounges out in sun to UV them out. Or just ski them, because they will break down over time.

Bingo.
It was on lou's site.

http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=61

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

Bingo.
It was on lou's site.

http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=61

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Cool info! Without the boot in front of me, I can't quite picture what Lou is referring to, but i'll check it out as an option. It still seems to me that the deformation of the tongue (particularly when flexed more heavily) will still facor into the picture...so I may still want to take care of that.

Thanks!

Wish I had a climbing wall inside! :)

Why not just sand down the inside or outside of the tongue where you'd like it to flex softer? Less likely to fail in the field, way easier to fine tune the flex. Hand sanding with rough grit would be the safest; power tools get a bit dramatic.

anohter possible option, a la lou. rather than make cuts, drill a few holes. Less likely to propogate, and you can continue to add a few holes until you get the flex you want.

I'm actually interested in stiffining up my Dynafit TLT's... I know, why pick the lightest boot and then try to beef it up?!

Because I picked them up for 75 bucks on craigslist.

Currently they are stock... so any input is welcome!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Poop*Ghost

I'm actually interested in stiffining up my Dynafit TLT's... I know, why pick the lightest boot and then try to beef it up?!

Because I picked them up for 75 bucks on craigslist.

Currently they are stock... so any input is welcome!

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Hey, Poop*Ghost (did you used to post on supertopo.com??)-

The TLT is a pretty darn soft booth. Is it the TLT or the TLT4 (or another incarnation)?

You could switch to a custom liner (one of the stiffer intutition liners), which would not add much weight but would add to stiffness a bit. Also, consider adding a rear spoiler. Try a booster strap (boosterstrap.com - should be able to easily find these in stores). I don't think you can easily replace the tongue, unfortunately.

The TLT series is a pretty big compromise for downhill performance. Good for hiking + climbing, passable on the downhill.

I'll think of some more ideas.

yep - it's the same poop*ghost :D

who are you in ST-land? I still peruse it, but don't post as much.

They are the TLT4's... the tongue has a large rivet style attatchment I think. I may see if I can find a stiffer tongue on some getto alpine boots.

I'll see if my alpine boot thermo liners will fit into the shells... that's a good idea and I have a smallish EK Sports velcro wrap - not sure if it does much.

Thanks for the input!

Jason

e$ on supertopo. Not on there much any more....used to be on there when Yosemite was in the backyard, so to speak.

Not sure about the velcro strap you have, but the "Booster Strap" is much burlier than what comes on most alpine ski boots...so it's worth considering. It's not just any old strap. I added it to my Denalis.

Still thinking if there's anything else you can try. If you can find a matching alpine boot tongue and pop the rivets, you're in luck. Since it's a 3 buckle boot, you shouldn't have too much trouble with the buckles getting in the way.

I say remove the stop block that Lou references.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lou dawson

Dynafit has forward flex that is similar to Megaride for first inch or so, then it gets extremely resistant because there are stops built into the cuff that limit forward flex (see detail photo below). These could be ground out for a more progressive flex, but since this is still a thin plastic touring boot they’re probably a good idea.

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Just grind or cut it off.

If the boot seems okay flex in the first inch or so but gets too stiff later, then it has to be this stop block inside the cuff.

Grind that off and then see how it skis.
You can always come back later and try to soften the boot in other ways.

Core Shot:
Your post was right on--that "wing" is exactly what is limiting the flex and blocking the flex characteristics of the tongue.

I just had a warranty issue with my boots -- I noticed the metal piece that connects the lower shell to the upper (and controls Walk/Ski modes) was completely broken off on both boots! This must have happened in the past few days (but there was no specific incident that caused it, as far as I can tell).

Life-link is going to give me the prognosis. It sort of explains some stuff -- why I couldn't pressure the tails unless I was waaaaayyyy in the back seat.

Thanks!

has any actually done what Chaka is talking about, just simply drilling holes in the tongue? to me it doesnt seem like some random holes here and there would soften the tongue much. if you read lou's article about his boot modifications, you will notice that he actually did what i described as well as the random holes. i think its the vertical cut that makes the difference. any thoughts?

and coreshot swoops in and steals my glory for the legwork i did...

thanks alot....jerk
:wink:

Sorry, XtrP -- The record will reflect that you did reference the wings in an earlier post. :-)