Compression ejection prevention?

In the roughly 8 ski days since I mounted Rossi/Look Power 140s on my Bro softs, I've popped out three times. The first time was, in my opinion, perfect -- the bindings released at exactly the right time on each ski, and possibly saved me from injury.

The two more recent releases, by contrast, were untimely, at least in my opinion. In both cases, I went into a depression, the skis flexed, I may have shifted weight forward, and I popped out at a time when I felt that I was still in control and not at risk.

Aside from avoiding skiing into depressions, any suggestions on preventing this? Should I up the DIN a notch or two? If so, only in the heel? Anything else?

TIA.

What DIN do you ski on now?

There's a fine line between ejecting properly and ejecting in a situation that you deem to be early. It's more a trade-off than a fine line, to be more accurate.

As a general rule of thumb, for each time you eject earlier than you feel appropriate, tighten the springs by 0.5 on the DIN scale. Soon, you will no longer eject in these "unwanted" situations. You may be able to adjust the scale differently for the heel vs toe, and possibly for upward vs. lateral release.

You definitely run the risk of your bindings failing to eject at some point that you feel appropriate.

All of us who run (relatively) high DIN settings make a decision that the consequences of an early eject are worse than the injury potential for a failure to eject.

Be careful and know the consequences of your actions before taking on the risk.

My vibram-soled boots never seem to eject from my bindings. :-)

I'm currently at 8.75, set by the Granite Chief techs off the DIN chart. I have not adjusted.

Assuming that I do want to raise my DIN, should the heel and toe always be at the same setting, or might I want to raise only the heel in this situation?

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

I'm currently at 8.75, set by the Granite Chief techs off the DIN chart. I have not adjusted.

Assuming that I do want to raise my DIN, should the heel and toe always be at the same setting, or might I want to raise only the heel in this situation?

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Heel and toe should not always be at the same setting, and you only need to adjust the heel for the issue you described above.

Though DIN charts don't reflect it, your heel DIN is a function of your height, weight, and bootsole, while your toe din is only a function of your weight and boot sole. So tall people should have a higher heel setting and short people should have a lower heel setting for the same foot size. <---- but don't sue when you snap your tibia from following my advice.

edit - to clarify, I mean lateral toe release only, which is the only thing the DIN standard refers to. vertical/diagonal toe release is a different story, and there's a reason it's hard to get it right.

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Originally Posted by flip

Heel and toe should not always be at the same setting, and you only need to adjust the heel for the issue you described above.

Though DIN charts don't reflect it, your heel DIN is a function of your height, weight, and bootsole, while your toe din is only a function of your weight and boot sole. So tall people should have a higher heel setting and short people should have a lower heel setting for the same foot size.

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That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by flip

but don't sue when you snap your tibia from following my advice.

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Ummm, well, assuming that you mean don't sue you, okay. But don't sue period -- anybody, for anything, even unrelated to skiing? That might be a problem, seeing as that's my job and all.

I would check that the forward pressure is right. With the boot in the binding the screw on the back of the heel plate should stick out 0.5mm (1/50").

edit: that's for the Rossi Axial bindings. Other Rossi bindings have a little window/tick marks on the side of the heel that should be centered.

I would crank the DIN...


^^^

this advice coming from an idiot who is 135lbs, 5'6" and skis a 12 DIN...


then again, I am young and soft, and hate losing skis

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

I would check that the forward pressure is right. With the boot in the binding the screw on the back of the heel plate should stick out 0.5mm (1/50").

edit: that's for the Rossi Axial bindings. Other Rossi bindings have a little window/tick marks on the side of the heel that should be centered.

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That's what I'd check too - and crank 'em up a notch or two....

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

Anything else?

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What condition are your boot soles in?

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

What condition are your boot soles in?

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Good, not great. Tecnica Rival RX, with removable heel and toe plates, worn at tip and butt to about half thickness from concrete contact.

I guess this is a good excuse to buy replacement heel and toe plates.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

Good, not great. Tecnica Rival RX, with removable heel and toe plates, worn at tip and butt to about half thickness from concrete contact.

I guess this is a good excuse to buy replacement heel and toe plates.

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Worn out halfway might well be the cause. Good thing they're replaceable on your boots.

Being a gaperific dork, I use Cat Trax if I have to hoof it on concrete for any distance. If the pavement is snow-covered, I don't bother.

I'm more worried about my bindings not releasing, or releasing inconsistently, due to worn out boot soles. Dorky Cat Trax vs. ligament surgery.... easy choice for me.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Being a gaperific dork, I use Cat Trax if I have to hoof it on concrete for any distance.

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See, I'm such a gaperific dork, I don't even need props.

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Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

I would crank the DIN...


^^^

this advice coming from an idiot who is 135lbs, 5'6" and skis a 12 DIN...


then again, I am young and soft, and hate losing skis

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you may be an Idiot....I don't know you, but I am your size and ski the same DIN....and I am not and idiot because of that......there are other reasons.

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

I would check that the forward pressure is right. With the boot in the binding the screw on the back of the heel plate should stick out 0.5mm (1/50").

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Thanks -- I'll check this weekend.

Yea, its not uncommon to have the DIN on a Rossi/Look heel higher then the toe piece's DIN. I remember when I was racing it was pretty much the norm.

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Originally Posted by dirtybryan

Yea, its not uncommon to have the DIN on a Rossi/Look heel higher then the toe piece's DIN. I remember when I was racing it was pretty much the norm.

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forgive me, but isn't the whole selling point of looks the high elasticity of the heels? if so, would it not intuitively make more sense to run the toe higher and the heel lower? i have heard of alot of folks running a point higher heel on salomons and tyrols, but not looks.

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Originally Posted by N170

forgive me, but isn't the whole selling point of looks the high elasticity of the heels? if so, would it not intuitively make more sense to run the toe higher and the heel lower? i have heard of alot of folks running a point higher heel on salomons and tyrols, but not looks.

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Yes,they have good elasticity.

But it doesn not change the fact that the types/forces related to heel or toe release are different.

Toe releases (as general) are usually of twisting type,where the ski gets stuck somewhere. They are usually the most dangerous to the knee too.
And by my experience,they luckily are the most rare type.(dont remember releasing from my toe in last two seasons..)

In heel releases are usually involved higher forces. Cartwheels, forward balanced landings etc.. And the movement direction of your body is usually straght forward, where your knees can take much more force than twisting.
Obviously,when shit hits the fan,well,your knees are fucked..

I personally ski with toes as low as 6s and heels at 10. No prereleases etc..


AlpinenDad: Skiing into that kind of stuff, the ski might overflex and you can leave your skiis, even if your heel "doesnt release". It can happen with sofer skis (soft bros,Pr´s,etc..).

And your worn boot soles aint helping in keeping yourself strapped to your skiis... :)

Ok.

Moral of the story: Raise the heel DIN .5 and see if it makes a difference, and replace the wear pads. (For the record, they're just rounded out on the edges, not worn down generally, but yeah, it's time.)

Thanks, all.