Using Mountaineering Boots with AT binders?

I can't imagine that this topic hasn't been covered, so I'm probably just not using the search function very well, but if someone would either (a) point me to the right thread or (b) provide some input I would greatly appreciate it.

Do any of the AT binders work with hardshell plastic mountaineering boots (Scarpa Invernos)? I have Naxo 01's on one pair of skis and am presently planning to put Fritschi's on my next pair later this month. Occassionally I would prefer not to bring my alpine boots, such as an upcoming trip up Mt. Shasta guaranteed to involve some bootpacking and hiking over bare areas.

Thanks!

i have a feeling that older silvretta bindings would be better for this. can't help but feel that the downhill performance of mountaineering boots would be truly awful

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Originally Posted by Arno

i have a feeling that older silvretta bindings would be better for this.

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I imagine this is true, but I'd really rather not have (Silvretta's) most of the time... Although I'm concerned about binding release / non-release if I jerry-rig the naxo's.

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Originally Posted by Arno

can't help but feel that the downhill performance of mountaineering boots would be truly awful

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I'm sure it would be... sort of a rental-shop feel? I think I'd rather have poor performance downhill than walk.

Sounds like you need some AT boots - even if you only rent them for this trip

Mountaineering boots would absolutely suck going downhill. Probably a good way to get an old school spiral fracture of the lower leg - which could be fun :eek:

The welt on a mountaineering boot just isn't big or squared enough to work in a naxo/freeride/pure. Sorry... you've got to go with a toe-loop style binding like the older silvrettas.

What you're describing is exactly what AT boots are made for. The softest and lowest of the AT boots (F1 or megalite) will hike and ice-climb about as well the inverno, will ski much much better, and will work safely in your bindings (actually, I'm not certain of that for the F1).

i haven't tried it, but i very much doubt that mountaineering boots have enough of a toe thingy to fit securely in the toe piece of a Naxo or a Fritschi. The old silvretta toe pieces fit a little bit like some crampons which makes me think they may work.

still, the point about the downhill performance stands. i reckon you could just about do it on some short, lightweight touring skis, but anything which requires any driving at all won't be fun and may be positively dangerous

Thanks Jonathan for the PM. Good info.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Sounds like you need some AT boots - even if you only rent them for this trip

Mountaineering boots would absolutely suck going downhill. Probably a good way to get an old school spiral fracture of the lower leg - which could be fun :eek:

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I guess you guys are right, but it would have been really nice to use the gear I already have. Of course I could always carry my alpine boots in a pack for strength training purposes.

Hmmm... spiral fracture probably = not fun. Guess I probably wouldn't be hucking anything in mountaineering boots, either.

I have skied in Invernos and Silvretta 500's many times. It is a miserable experience with a pack on.

But I seriously doubt there is an AT boot out there that comes close to the climbing performance of the Inverno. You are designing against two directly competing performance parameters. Any good-skiing boot is by default impossible to use for good french technique or anything that involves rolling the ankle at all.

Silvretta 505 Easy Go or Silvretta Pures both work with mountaineering boots. So do Silvretta 404 and old Fritschi standard bindings. I've used Scarpa Vegas and my leather Vasques with them. But the downhill performance is miserable.

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Originally Posted by Orange Julius

I have skied in Invernos and Silvretta 500's many times. It is a miserable experience with a pack on.

But I seriously doubt there is an AT boot out there that comes close to the climbing performance of the Inverno. You are designing against two directly competing performance parameters. Any good-skiing boot is by default impossible to use for good french technique or anything that involves rolling the ankle at all.

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Meh, the Inverno doesn't flex so well at the ankles either, unless you leave it loose and let the cuff cut into your shin. The Alpha and leather boots flex nicely though.

You could bring along a pair of those old granite gear boosters they used to make for leather tele boots. They double as splints when you wreck yourself from trying to ski in hiking boots.

A lightweight AT boot would seem to be ideal for your purposes. I agree that using the mountaineering boot would give you (a) truly shitty performance downhill and (b) put you at risk for an injury....something I would be particularly worried about because you are guaranteed to run the whole gamut of snow conditions on Shasta.

For what it's worth, a Scarpa Denali with a Raichle Thermo liner is pretty lightweight. That setup (with Fritschis) worked well for both climbing and skiing a ton of 14'ers (and one "20'er") for me....both with/without crampons. I wouldn't climb too much vertical ice with them, but they're fine for the occasional bit.

What route are you planning to take?

An AT boot will let you enjoy (rather than survive) the ride down...

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by upallnight

What route are you planning to take?

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Not sure yet. Depends on time, snowpack/avy conditions, limitations of other members of the group, etc. Probably Sargents or Casaval for the easier access. I think I'll save the crevassed glacier options for later in the year. Shasta might become my 'home mountain' once the snow starts disappearing around Tahoe, though, at least judging from the pics on this board from June-July-August 2005.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Silvretta Pures ... work with mountaineering boots.

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That seems dodgy, since they are designed for the standard ski boot toe. You really want the wire toe bail bindings for mountaineering boots.
Anyway, the lighter AT boots are fine following the boot track up shasta :) Just leave the cuff unbuckled.

Depends a lot on the boot shape.
The only really safe bid for all shapes I'm aware of are Silvretta's old 402 to 404 and the newer 500s. They all share the same front metal string which works independent from the boot tip shape.

Downhill performance is as Lee said but I guess you know that anyway.

Mountaineering Boots can be made to work in almost any binder. I've seen them forced into almost everything, incuding tele setups! They don't work properly in any though. Anyway this is to climb Shasta - Take the alpine boots - if you don't have vibrams on them take some cat-tracks. It will be a lot safer than the reverse and there will be many others on the mountain doing the same.

Definitely find myself in the same sitch. I've already paid for Megarides but was surprised to see that Garmont's megalites will be easier to find this season and am considering them if they will climb better. What's the difference in touring/climbing/living ability of the megalite over the megaride? Does it outweigh the loss in skiing precision for most?

I'd get an AT boot, anyone will do just fine, and 100 times better than any other option you have. The Dynafit TLT 700 AT boot changed my life, it's a perfect blend of climbability and skiingability. They don't do anything perfectly but they do everything well enough that I enjoy every aspect of the tour from the approach on a dirt trail (have hiked 8 miles with an overnight pack), to front pointing the early morning soon to be corn, and the blissful glisse down.

However, if you must use what you have I would say pack in the alpine boots . I did that for many years, while I now realize how much that actually sucked, back then I didn't know any better.

i used koflacks with my freerides. yes the downhill performance sucks, but they did work for me. i kept falling back, but not releasing, plus i had an overnight pack. at the time i didn't have AT boots and i was going into huntingtons ravine, mt washington to ice climb and wasn't gonna ice climb in my alpine boots.

WARNING the bootsole length is much different. i have a 25 adrenaline about 283mm? and the koflack is like 300 mm

Lowa Struktura Lights, they are light weight, have 2 diff tongues, one that is hinged for extra flex and one solid plastic piece for a siffer boot. They have a LOT of flex in them. They are the ONLY AT boot made in a 14, so i was pretty much forced to buy them. They are only a 3 buckle setup so they would most likely be a great compromise, you can hike in them, when buckles are loose, they have a LOT of ankle flex and with the thermo liner, they lace up so you have support there. AND they are VERY light weight

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Originally Posted by lexpowers

Definitely find myself in the same sitch. I've already paid for Megarides but was surprised to see that Garmont's megalites will be easier to find this season and am considering them if they will climb better. What's the difference in touring/climbing/living ability of the megalite over the megaride? Does it outweigh the loss in skiing precision for most?

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The megalights just aren't that much lighter than the megarides. I haven't skied megalights, but I have skied dynamites, and unless you found a screaming deal on them I wouldn't bother, just get the megarides. A few ounces of weight doesn't make much difference to general useability and the higher boot will ski better.
The really light boots are fine for hut touring, powder etc, but for all-around use I'd get the megaride (or spirit 3 or a laser to save a few $$)

i've used koflach plastic mtneering boots in naxos... they ROCK on the uphill.. on downhill anything steeper than barely moving flats they are scary and seem like a ticket to ankle injuries

i think you also need to consider what skis you will use on any given descent.

i have a pair of dynafit tlt4pros, and while one could ski anywhere with them, pushing a long, wide and/or stiff ski would be pretty rough. if you're skiing a shorter, skinnier, lighter stick, then the lighter AT boots w/ a more touring bent (uphill vs downhill) will serve you better.

for the record, some of the lighter AT boots (a la the megalight & lighter varieties) can get you down some hairy stuff...but you need to be solid in your technique and careful not to ask them to drive too big a ski.

as noted above, you're not saving too much weight with them over the megaride, and the megaride *will* allow you to drive pretty much any ski out there. i use them daily.