tire help: buy 1 or replace all 4?

ok, i know there are some gear heads on here, so i need your opinions here:

i have a 2002 subaru outback, currently running 4 nokian wr tires on them. blew out the sidewall on the right front tire yesterday: hit a huge rock on the alpine meadows access road :cussing: its blown and needs to be replaced.

so you se where i am going with this, don't ya....can i get away w/replacing just that one tire? tires have roughly 14 months on them and roughly 20k miles. those nokians are 60k tires, still decent tread left on them.

all manufacturers strongly reccomend that in AWD cars, if you replace one tire, you need to replace all of them, or it can screw up the gear box, etc. if they aren't worn evenly.

one local guy said maybe can get away w/replacing both front tires and leave the back ones as is (though he reccomends replacing all 4, naturally...), and he said you shouldn't just replace one, replacing the 2 front tires is the min he would go with.

so, thoughts?

I'd go to a used tire store nearby and try to find a match if I were you. Chances are good you'll find what you're looking for. Do you have a full size spare? Just put that one on and you're good to go. Are you in Reno/Tahoe right now?

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Originally Posted by BLOODSWEATSTEEL

I'd go to a used tire store nearby and try to find a match if I were you. Chances are good you'll find what you're looking for. Do you have a full size spare? Just put that one on and you're good to go. Are you in Reno/Tahoe right now?

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thought baout that, but the nokians are not very common tires, doubt i will be able to find one w/20k miles on it....and sounds like i would need 2

the local guy is right. at least 2 new tires on the front.

I had the same issue w/ my XC70. Fortunately, I only had about 5K on the tires, so the dealership said it was OK just to replace one.

I think at 20K you might have crossed the line were you cannot get away with just replacing one tire.

When you're going straight, the different tire sizes will make your differential work a lot more than normal since that's where the difference in rotation speed will be compensated for. But I have no idea how much it actually wears your differential. This will be true for both the left-right differential and the fwd/aft differential.

You must have gotten (Road Hazzard) when you bought the tire's. So that should defray the cost of 2

I think the differential wear is not your biggest concern. The slight change in tire height can be compensated for by adjusting tire pressures. Some concerns are tire noise, uneven wear, problems with rotating etc... but, The biggest concern is the safety of your car in the snow. Two things are most important for snow traction:

a) Matrial Compound. Snow tires have compounds that have much lower freezing temperatures than performance dry/wet tires. Most performance tires have the traction/friction qualities of plastic below 20F. Assuming you are getting the same exact tires all around, the compound should be the same. Bridgestone Blizzak tires are one of few tires where compounds change as the tires wear down.

b) Tread Pattern and Depth. The deeper the tread the more snow it can evacuate from between the knobs of your tires and the road surface. Deeper tread helps your tires move more snow out of the way and bite into something solid underneath. Most snow tire treads are also engineered to be narrower because the narrower the tire the more pressure per square inch on the road surface, the higher the chance that the tires will dig in.

If you replace just one tire, Tread Depth will be your problem. The new tire will dig into the snow noticeable better than the worn out ones because of reasons noted in b). Depending on where this tire is on your car, it could cause understeer or oversteer tendencies. I would recommend what others already have, get two new tires and leave the other two.

In my opinion, putting the new tires in the back is better for safety and putting them on the front is better for traction. With the tires new tires in the front, you have more stick in front than you have in rear... in a steady state turn (no AWD, no gas, no brakes) the rear of the car will be slightly looser than the front and will want to come around on you, which unless you are a rally driver is a dangerous situation in the snow.

damn, looks like i need to replace 2 at a minimim, and ideally, all 4 :nonono2:
fack! searching the interweb, i have these tires @ $148 per, or $568 for 4.....damn, that is steep...

Tires are mucho $$$ these days! Yikes!

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Originally Posted by vano

I think the differential wear is not your biggest concern. The slight change in tire height can be compensated for by adjusting tire pressures.

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Originally Posted by freshies

all manufacturers strongly reccomend that in AWD cars, if you replace one tire, you need to replace all of them, or it can screw up the gear box, etc. if they aren't worn evenly

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Don't know if you can change a tire's diameter by 4-5 mm by adjusting tire pressure within tolerable limits either.

Rob: If you replace only two, the rule is to put the new ones on the back to avoid spinouts. It's counter-intuitive, since the front wheels do the lion's share of the braking, but you're supposed to do so even on a front-drive vehicle.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

Rob: If you replace only two, the rule is to put the new ones on the back to avoid spinouts. It's counter-intuitive, since the front wheels do the lion's share of the braking, but you're supposed to do so even on a front-drive vehicle.

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cool, thx for the advice. so, i call these guys in Sacto that I bought them from last time, and the guy tells me all he is showing that there is only one single Nokian WR left in disti, and its in UT....fack. I do not want to do the whole tire search again....

www.tirerack.com.

Trust me on this one.

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Originally Posted by runethechamp

Don't know if you can change a tire's diameter by 4-5 mm by adjusting tire pressure within tolerable limits either.

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Assuming you are using 225/60/16 Nokian tires, the have 12/32" tread on them - the last 2/32" is designed not to wear off, only 10/32" can actual wear off the tire until it is considered done. 10/32" = 8.15mm.

The tires are about 20K worn and wear for 60K. Assuming normal wear the tires still have worn off 8.15 * 1/3 = 2.7mm. My guess is that with tire pressures you can bring the radius of these tires within 1mm of each other - close enough. The car's weigth distribution, camber/toe settings and banking on the roads will make almost that much difference.

But then again this is a moot point as I would still recommend putting two new tires on and moving them to the back for safety in snow and rain.

I wouldn't drop the extra 300 on all 4 tires and have to deal with the cost of shipping, mounting and balancing. But if you do choose that route and can wait 3 or 4 days to get the tires, you should check out the following two tire sources:

www.tirerack.com
www.edgeracing.com

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

www.tirerack.com.

Trust me on this one.

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Trust alpinedad - the tirerack is a great place to get tires. I have bought at least 10 sets of tires and 4 sets of wheels from them (I race my car during the summer and chew thru a set of tires every 2 months). Great selection, great service, great website and info, pretty good price too. They do not carry Nokian tires and I don't think they carry anything that is very similar to the WR. The WR seems like a crossover between all season and snow tires.

Good luck!

ALPINEDAD, don't you owe me a review of your Soft Bros??? Since we are the same size, I am dying to hear what you thought of them.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

www.tirerack.com.

Trust me on this one.

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they don't carry Nokian tires. That's the bitch about these things: they are the best all weather tire out there (only "all season/all weather" tire w/the snowflake rating/symbol) but are impossible to find, as they are imported from Finland.

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Originally Posted by freshies

they don't carry Nokian tires. That's the bitch about these things: they are the best all weather tire out there (only "all season/all weather" tire w/the snowflake rating/symbol) but are impossible to find, as they are imported from Finland.

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The closest match in performance in dry, wet and, most importantly, snow that you will find on the Tire Rack is one of the Performance Snow tires like the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. If you go the All-Season tire route, the BFGoodrich Traction T/A is your best bet. Everyone who tries it is impressed with now well it does in the snow, for a non-snowtire that is.

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Originally Posted by vano

ALPINEDAD, don't you owe me a review of your Soft Bros??? Since we are the same size, I am dying to hear what you thought of them.

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Sorry about that -- I ended up posting in AKPM's Bros TR thread, rather than creating my own.

We now return you to your previously-scheduled discussion of tires.

Better late than never --
First, the miles on the tires doesn't matter; it's the tread depth that counts. So measure the existing tires and compare to a new one. It may not matter.

Second, there are variations of AWD so whether or not different tires sizes matter depends on the specific AWD and only the manufacturer knows for sure. If it comes with a space saver tire then it's probably ok.

Third, you could buy one tire and have it shaved.

Fourth, if you have a full size spare then buy one tire, move a used tire to the spare and be careful rotating your tires.

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

Third, you could buy one tire and have it shaved.

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Can all tire shops do this? I didn't know that was an option, but now that you mention it, it sounds obvious.

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Originally Posted by Big Blue

Can all tire shops do this? I didn't know that was an option, but now that you mention it, it sounds obvious.

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Shops that cater to the track racing crowd should be able to get it done. Or retreaders since they have to shave the carcass before applying a new tread.