School me on carbon wheels

I have recently given up hope for a sustainable future worth living in and have pivoted to making it rain for bike part companies.

Carbon wheels: How do they work? Lateral compliance? Vertical compliance? What does one look for? Symmetric layup, asymmetric layup? 28 hole or 32? Straight pull spokes or classic? Brands to avoid?

The rider is 210 lb, the bike is a Spur. The goal is to get a better Strava time on my favorite climb while simultaneously making the bike feel less skittish going fast on loose tech and medium roots. So I don't know if I want a super high strung XC set, but I also don't want a bulletproof hyper stiff set of endurbro smashers. Tires are Dissector/Rekon 2.4 running at 20/24, no inserts (obv).

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I can say I much prefer 28H for carbon rims, way more compliant and not as harsh as a 32H option.

Super happy with NOBL right now, so many rim/hub options are great price points all around

Compliance (in any direction) varies from brand to brand. But they've all gotten a lot better over the years - there are differences, but I don't find any of them to be horribly stiff these days.

Assorted thoughts, in no particular order:
-A fatter profile rim along the top of the bead reduces pinch flats.
-Asymmetric rims are good for spoke bracing angles and lateral stiffness, but they sometimes make tubeless setup annoying. Tape tends to dimple down into the holes, and since the holes are offset to one side, it can make it really hard to get a tire to seat.
-I find carbon rims to be hard on spokes. I don't have any issue with the ride quality of 28 hole wheels, but I do find the spokes have a shorter fatigue life.
- there is some difference between brands in terms of rim construction and ride quality. Generally speaking, my experience has been that you get what you pay for. I haven't found there to be a huge difference in durability between the more / less expensive options, but my sample size is still relatively small.
- don't cheap out on the hubs. Axle standards are pretty stable these days, and these wheels will potentially last you a long time and be swapped from bike to bike. It's worth throwing down a bit of extra cash.

If it were me, I'd settle on a weight class (for you, I'd go with a ~1650g wheelset), then find the wheelset in your budget that has the best warranty, with mild attention to the above factors.


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I'm a big fan of the Specialized Roval Traverse SL wheels... I currently have them on my Stumpy and previously had them on my Forbidden Dreadnought. I'm not a big guy (170#) and find them to be the right balance of compliant and durable, plus I think there's definitely something to the wider rim bead design, as it's almost certainly saved me from a handful of pinch flats in the last couple of years. Not my ad below, but for $800 it's tough to beat.https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/4023380/

shop bro had a set of carbon which he just swapped from bike to bike sez they never needed any maintenance when it came time to sell off a bike just put the virgin orginal wheels back on the bike and come out even

Really good list from Toast, and a couple other comments from a fellow Clydesdale

re spokes: IMO the sweet spot of spoke for carbon rims is CX-ray (bladed) or DT Comp Race (2.0-1.6.2.0) Lighter than that = PITA of constantly breaking or stretching spokes. heavier than that and the spokes are less flexible which can make the wheel a bit more stiff riding and also puts more impact into the rim as well

J bend vs. straight pull. IMO, it's kind of sixes, but the J bends are a bit easier to true after a long season or two of use since the head of the spoke is anchored and can't spin in the hub. Straight pulls are nice to build with, however, in that they are quicker to lace up. I use straight pull when building for myself and order j bends when I am having someone else make em. Consider 2 cross lacing on J bends - it makes the wheel slightly smoother riding in a subtle but noticeable way but also adds a little extra torsion to the wheel, since the cross is higher up the spoke.

I find a good correlation between rim height and riding smoothness... ie a <20mm tall rim is almost always smoother riding than a a 25mm+ tall rim -- and really with no downside IMO.

Don&#39;t get lost in micro weight weenism. nobody was sad their rim was 20g too heavy, but 100% of riders that went 20g too light are bummed and walking out their ride right now ;)

currently running Reynolds TR329 tims on DT 350 hubs (54t) and comp race spokes with great results... zippy enough for the <30lb trail bike and stout enough for the 35lb enduro bike.

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Originally Posted by Huskier

The rider is 210 lb, the bike is a Spur. The goal is to get a better Strava time on my favorite climb while simultaneously making the bike feel less skittish going fast on loose tech and medium roots.

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Throw away the Sid shock and put on a Mara, if you haven't yet. Mini-enduro engage. Pogo rattle no mo.

I like the Rovals on my Spur. WAO on the other bike are great, too.

When I did this, I bought rims, 3 new hubs, and built the 5 wheels I needed.
Took less time than I thought, (as a beginner), saved a lot of money, and I enjoyed doing it. I think they came out as good or better than what I woulda bought.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

When I did this, I bought rims, 3 new hubs, and built the 5 wheels I needed.
Took less time than I thought, (as a beginner), saved a lot of money, and I enjoyed doing it. I think they came out as good or better than what I woulda bought.

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On a scale of one to pain in the ass, how hard was it? Having nightmare visions of getting the spoke lengths wrong and then chasing my tail trying to tension them or creating a weak spot or something..

Good recs all much obliged.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Throw away the Sid shock and put on a Mara, if you haven't yet. Mini-enduro engage. Pogo rattle no mo.

I like the Rovals on my Spur. WAO on the other bike are great, too.

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You felt like the rovals were a tangible upgrade from stock? There are a bunch kicking around on PB and I'm half tempted

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Also this is a weird request but anyone in the pugetopolis area have a pair set up with 6-bolt with an XD driver that they would be willing to loan out for a single ride? Willing to compensate monetarily, beverage-ily, etc...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Huskier

On a scale of one to pain in the ass, how hard was it? Having nightmare visions of getting the spoke lengths wrong and then chasing my tail trying to tension them or creating a weak spot or something..

Good recs all much obliged.

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Well, it really wasn’t that hard at all. Super satisfying, (like a lot of the stuff in the “stuff I built with my own hands”, thread), but I don’t have any carpentry or artistic talent.
There’s so many YouTube videos, and explanations online, with people doing it. I found a guy that I liked, and I put my iPad up and I would pause it after I did a section and then scroll forward. The guys here in the “ask the experts” thread gave me some great advice. I took screen shots of those to refer to, especially the tensioning at the end of the process. I bought the spokes from my local bike shop so that they were in on the deal if I had any questions, which I never did, but, you know, just in case.
I bought the nipples and some spoke thread adhesive, (or whatever it’s called), and some better spoke wrenches online. I already had a truing stand, but I could’ve borrowed one from a friend.
The spoke lengths were given to me by the rim manufacturer. I gave them my hubs, and they came back with the spoke length. I know you can figure it out, but, figuring that part out was not interesting to me, (that part of the process).
My single speed hub is an old Stan’s 3.3, and I’ve rebuilt it a dozen times. It’s finally cooked and I’m saving my pennies for an Onyx, and I’m gonna go through this process again very soon.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e18a4f0d6a.jpg

I have a set of the new Traverse SL II wheels I&#39;m going to be selling soon if someone wants them. Newer generation than the pinkbike ad. I was hopping to net $750.

They were on my XC bike and I&#39;m 160lbs so I swapped for a the Control SL.

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Originally Posted by smmokan

I&#39;m a big fan of the Specialized Roval Traverse SL wheels... I currently have them on my Stumpy and previously had them on my Forbidden Dreadnought. I&#39;m not a big guy (170#) and find them to be the right balance of compliant and durable, plus I think there&#39;s definitely something to the wider rim bead design, as it&#39;s almost certainly saved me from a handful of pinch flats in the last couple of years. Not my ad below, but for $800 it&#39;s tough to beat.https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/4023380/

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I’ll pretty happy as a ~200lb rider with the we are one factions I put on my SB115.

With cx rays and dt350s, they are supposed to be around 1670g even at 32 spokes. With their Black Friday sale, price was reasonable.

That said, both of those rovals seem like great deals (especially the IIs) and I would have bought those instead.

Just don’t ALSO switch to a heavier tire at the same time…let yourself feel the free spinning freedom first! Also easier to notice the differences on tires you are used to.


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<p>
I built up a Revel Ranger a few years ago and after a thorough look at options went with the Nobl TR32 rims with DT Swiss 240 hubs, I think the set came in under 1500g. So far I haven&#39;t touched them, barely put any dings in them and ridden them pretty hard. They did shuttle laps in Oakridge and Ashland, OR but mostly have been used in New England where rocks and roots reign supreme. Haven&#39;t given a second thought to whether I made the right choice. Right now I&#39;m considering selling the Ranger frame and getting a Spur</p>

I got some kind of high end Bontrager wheels to replace Flows. They have much higher engagement, feel smoother, and rail corners. I wouldn't say they are faster on the up. Also, I wouldn't say I saved much weight at all. Otoh, the 108 point engagement really spoiled me and the impact strength is probably stronger. It seems carbon trail wheels aren't getting much lighter than aluminum, but they well be stronger and "feel" better. Which is totally subjective, but whatever.
Oh, 28 hole.
I am only 10 or 15lbs lighter than you.
All that being said: Roval Traverses might be a solid upgrade for you if you get at least the 36t ratchet. You want to be careful with super lightweight stuff when you're a big boy.
Make it rain!

I think the brands with lifetime warranties only apply to original owner, FWIW. I'm on Reserve 30 HDs now and feel like they're a good balance of stiffness and compliance. I previously owned WAO Unions and Agents, the Reserves definitely feel less harsh. On the other hand, they're also staying true better and haven't broken any spokes on them despite thrashing them on multiple ebikes. My WAOs were built by WAO and Fanatik, and both liked to break spokes and come out of true. I'm not sure why this is... either SC/Reserve's robot building + human checking, use of 28 spokes for more flex, or flexier rim, but they're way less headache. I'm also back on running 350 hubs because I got tired of replacing bearings on Hydras. 3 sets of wheels on 350s and haven't touched a bearing on them in 2 years. The upgraded 54t ratchet is a good sweet spot for me between engagement and pedal kick. I just got an email from Reserve the other day saying that they were now offering their off-menu "Frysauce" build, which has a 30SL front rim and a 30HD rear rim. Might be a good combo for a heavier rider on a small bike like you.

After much himming and hawing I decided to take this experiment to big bike (overforked Sentinel), thinking that at the very least I could take some of the edge off the chatter at WBP and our local park.

I went with WAO Triads laced to 321's. I saved a whopping -wait for it-.....80 GRAMS per wheel. Amazing. They sure are shiny though. We'll see if I can tell the difference...

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the 1 hr interview with Dustin Adams on we are one carbon rims https://nsmb.com/articles/the-nsmb-p...ticle-comments

Love my we are ones. I’m a Clydesdale who has beat the shit out of some revives on my hardtail. I’ve got triads on the smash and they have been great as well. Probably a couple thousand miles between the two at this point and still true.

Better get those WAO orders in before I9 becomes the only hub option.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/indust...omposites.html