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Something I’ve pondered a bit. Many very good skiers detune their tips and tails religiously. I, an advanced but by no means amazing skier, have never felt the need to detune and often actively dislike the effect it has on skis. I understand the reason behind it and very much appreciate and feel what it does to a ski’s behavior, I just don’t like it.
What explains that difference, do you suppose? What difference or flaw in technique, stance, style might lead somebody one way or the other?
I’m very picky about how a skis tips and tails behave so I detune them to my liking. I don’t want them doing anything weird, esp at mach chicken. The only ski I really don’t touch is my [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji639] Head Monster [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji638] liquid metals. I want that full edge feel and bite on really firm or ice.
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I detune as necessary to get the ski to perform how I want it to.
For example, on my HL R87 Comp I don’t detune one pair of edges because I want to be able to get them to hook up in very firm conditions, and they’re capable of doing that. On the other pair of edges I detune slightly at tips and tails because in warmer/softer hard pack the full sharp edges can feel a bit too grabby.
On my Mantra 102s I run a gummy the full length of the edges a few times, and detune more at the tips and tails. The 102’s can’t hook up in true hard conditions, so I’d rather have them less sharp so that they release and drift more smoothly instead of being chattery.
Skis wider than the 102 also get detuned, but they’re not being used on firm snow anyway, so I’m not as particular about them.
usually no but cuz I want every cm of edge I paid for
but I had some evil handling 1st version BD Verdicts, the ski was stiff with a lot of camber unpredictable, I tamed handling by lightly dulling the tails with emery cloth 5cm at a time to a total of 10 cms, I took the emery cloth with me onpiste to ski and try
I agree with the Matnra 102 detune. I just do the tips and tails. Factory tune they were fine, but after they came back with a new base grind and sharp edges, the tip got a little grabby and the tails weren't releasing like I wanted.
I get why those who detune their skis, do.
I don’t understand the difference between those who do and those who don’t. Do I just ski slower? Do I spend less time bases flat? Do I unweight aggressively in transitions? Does the wind resistance from my prominent gaper gap deflect the tips and tails away from the snow?
i think a lot of it comes down to how much a ski is flexed. if someone is flexing short of or at the contact point, having the rest of those edges detuned will help them feel a more predictable release.
I used to edge file alot so I asked myself why file it and then dull it ?
in any case some people like different stuff
special flowers dude
What’s the difference between us? We can start at the penis. Or we can just scream I don’t give a fuck and see who means it.
Different skiing style and different personal preferences?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
On the two skis I described I detune them differently because I have different preferences in how they perform, I ski them with a different style in different terrain, and they’re designed to ski differently.
Their mother hated them ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
Lots of people can't tell the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
Lots of people don't realize detuning is an option.
A few people can tell the difference and know how to fix it.
I'ma say detuning is based largely on the conditions you ski on. Firm to bulletproof gonna want sharper. Mostly fresher, softer snow and sharp doesn't help as much.
Average speed is a factor too. Peeps ski above, say, 45 mph on the regular, less sharp for fear of high speed hooking or over railing.
Racing be opposite in that for a minute or two, ya want full engagement.
Weight is a player, heavy dude can get an edge in without any help where a light guy needs an earlier engagement.
Technique is obvi a big factor. I ski kinda lazy in general but when the chips are down, I rely more on my weight, typically larger turn radius and letting the g's work the ski and the flex and energy do it's part.
I only muscle it hard when the conditions are pushing back at me hard. I try to finesse my line more as I get older but it's not my innate style.
What a skier likes in their particular turn, the one that feels the best, is what ya are always trying to duplicate. That perfect turn, every turn.
Timing the hook is a thing too. Some peeps want immediate grab and pull into the arc, others only want it when they force the grab.
This where torsional rigidity comes into play.
A gummy stone, assuming you mean the type that you can indent with a fingernail, doesn't do anything to actually detune an edge. It just cleans the hardened steel.
A file or some kind of coarse stone is for initial detunes. Makes me cringe to see someone use a diamond stone at an angle trying to detune an edge.
Todays shapes beg for a slight detune in tips and tails. They grab earlier than old straight skis and a hooky ski is living hell.
I had a not detuned Maverick 95 rental last year first day in Suisseland when my skis were delayed. Suffered it then and still undoing some of it's jankiness.
Wut?Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
Go to 1:00:00 mark
https://youtu.be/3HVZRrlcATk?si=dgWDdyWshCPFKQTb
Yeah, no.
Stainless steel. Hardened. Vs a gummy bear.
only lasted 2 minutes.
What he did made no difference in the sharpness.
Believe that if you want, but you can literally run your nail over the edges and feel a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
But, fuck, what would a WC tech know anyway.
You know a gummi isn’t just rubber, right? It has abrasives in it. Same way that sandpaper isn’t just a piece of paper.
I was going to say that I’m just a hack and the tune doesn’t matter to me that much. But Djongo has me feeling much better about my abilities after reading his response.
I’m a little heavier, ski fast, and prefer softer snow. Who knew?
are there different grades of Gummi assuming I were to ever take up edge dulling ?
I'm probably too old for the worlld cup
Here, have another:
https://youtu.be/NzDyKR8Dx30?si=uwfpzX9yFe92IfLj
There are. They don’t go by grit, but hardness/softness.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Tognar gives a descent summary for the use case for each:
https://www.tognar.com/swix-x-hard-g...kJeemoV7xuhW9l
First you need to clarify what you mean by detune. I aggressively round the edges of my skis on any part beyond the side cut and or the splayed part of the tips and tails. If the edge doesn’t contact the snow when on a groomer, hard or soft, there’s zero reason for it to be sharp. Old timer WC tuner Norm did this on the team skis. If there’s any soft snow, scraped off ice, loose granular on groomers the edge that doesn’t contact the firm snow will drag because of the square or acute angle sharp edges.
I leave the edges on my firm snow skis sharp except for removing the burrs and rounding the part that doesn’t contact the firm snow. Soft snow skis get the same treatment on tips and tails and varying degrees of detune on the contact part of the sidecut.
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Yes. I aggressively round off the edge past the contact points, and I use a file for that, but I don’t consider that to be detuning, just part of new ski prep.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Detuning is playing with the sharpness of the part of the edge that’s engaging the snow.
I can see that, but most every shop you go to for a tune will set the bevels sharp tip to tail. So for the purposes of this conversation it is relevant. I know most people don’t do this.
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Ok. Now that we have that cleared up, the Swix video clearly shows detuning of the effective edge of the ski with a gummi, and that does change the way a ski feels and performs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
If you can’t feel it maybe it’s because of the ski, the conditions, or your skill/technique.
Deburring is the word you're looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
A detune is exactly as uni stated