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This is out of my wheelhouse so I figured I'd ask the "injury-experienced". Just had my second bad knee sprain/MCL scare after 1) a toe non-release 2) rough toe release. Both forced external rotation. Had the bindings checked (Salomon shift). Had the boot checked (Tecnica zeroG). No issues. So to protect myself I'm toying with the idea of dialing Down my toe din only to try to encourage lateral releases. Is this a thing? What do people do to protect against excessive lateral forces?
The bindings will not protect you against soft tissue damage. Only against bone breakage. So you would probably need a din setting of 1 to protect your ligaments.
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Absolutely it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskydoc
You can get to a level of skiing where the chart really doesn't work. (if you don't believe me, consider high end bindings going to DIN 16,17,18,20, 24, even 30....when the retail charts go to 12...12 for an enormous aggressive skier with a tiny foot, lol.)
Racing, moguls, aggressive freeride....the chart will have you walking out of bindings....so at that point you have to figure out where the margin exists between adequate retention and adequate release. You've just had some feedback (you feel your system should have let you out) that says dial it down a bit. 1/2 a DIN, a full DIN....then you'll have a phase where you have to really watch what you do while you build trust in the system at that lower DIN, because sketchy prereleases are also dangerous.
The exact correct number for a stronger-than-the-chart DIN can be tough to get to without scary things happening....your non-release falls and your terrifying pre-release falls.
This is one of the (many) reasons a competition background in your teens helps, because you can kind of get some baselines figured out while you're young and durable.
If you have trustworthy, thoughtful skiers of similar size and approach, it's useful sometimes to ask what they're skiing...but you have to approach all this with a lot of thought and care.
Ideally you get to a DIN where you have a few releases that feel appropriate (which sucks, because shit has to go wrong, but....) but don't hurt you. At that stage you have a number you trust for that system...then you can carry that baseline forward, each time approaching new situations (binding, boot, adjustment, body changes, new season....whatever) with reduced trust and increased caution while you build up mileage and trust or have events that prompt you to adjust.
All of what IAS said.
Case in point: I got a new ACL, harvested from my quad tendon, in late april; also nibbled the meniscus a little and a partial MCL tear.
My din should be about 7; in a regular season I prolly start at 8 and go up as I get my ski legs. Within 4-8 weeks I'm at about 10, maybe 11/12 if sketch terrain or deeeep snow.
This season I started at 7 and have been going up a 1/2 turn every coupla weeks. Turned up to 9+ the other day and promptly wrecked. I kinda feel like my new leg pain is because I didn't come out easily enough. The repair feels good but other parts of the area got rattled. Big muscle strains.
Finding the fine line is a challenge for a while. My concerns initially were a ski not coming off easily enough. That evolves into hoping it doesn't come off at speed.
Half a turn might be fine, but remember that the binding will not protect you from a slow backward twisting fall.
YMMV
PS, I don't know how old you are, but you're supposed to go down one if you're 50+ years old according to the DIN people.
6 3 240, 42yrs, 326 bsl alpine
My safety setting is usually 10. I will sometimes leave pivot 18s at 10 because of the outstanding elasticity. I had a really heinous wreck prereleasing out of 10 on a px14 straightlining the bottom of a zipperline a few years ago. I think a p18 would have held on at 10 there.
More normal skiing moves to 11. I have a long history of Salomon drivers releasing me appropriately at 11-12.
I will go as high as 13 on drivers. Usually 11 is my pivot 12/14 setting. I feel really confident in that setting on those after a lot of mileage.
I have Tyrolia fr17s on SL race skis set at 11...never have released, have had weird “trying to snap newschool SL skis” crashes a couple of times...but the skis are so little and it’s on corduroy so I dunno... not the most confident in that setup. Writing this now makes me think I could knock those down a din.
Have Marker Comp 20s on a 201 GS ski at 14 for skiing very fast....prayerfully.
You are making rethink that I've been skiing at 10 for years on pivots at 180lbs (but 305 bsl). Though you are a much smoother skier than I.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
I skied at 11-12 on pxs and markers for a while but had a scary fall where it felt like I was close to doing major knee damage and went down to 10 after that.
I had a double heel eject last year on p18s set at 10 when I hit a very firm mogul on the backside with 6" of cream on top. I felt like I should have stayed in my bindings and considered bumping up my DIN after that but it was one of those moments that happened so fast I really don't know if I could have saved it or not.
Gold!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
This post needs a few pics for reference.
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Hell, I had to google that shit to see what my number is. I haven't gone by that in years, I adjust them by how I feel about myself, and skiing at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn
Until last april, when I proved your first statement, I bet my skis had not seen a 7 in 30 years. Which felt awkward turning them down last Fall.
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I agree that a burlier clamp set at the same din is a preferred setup.
With an appropriate application of physics, that ski can pop off way easier than ya think - high speed chatter walkouts to hidden bump megaflex DHRs.
Like me last week as well...
You’re dealing with a lot more variable snow, and situations where losing a ski is catastrophic, and you’re actually strong and in shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaddict91
I dunno, you know where you need to be.
It also speaks to the elasticity of a pivot heel.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
9.
9 is the number, brah.
Given the nature of the discussion... I haven't had any knee injury yet, but I have had some muscle imbalance in my thigh, hip flexor, etc. Anybody have any exercises that are good for knee stability/strength?
I have skied my bindings at max my entire skiing life, ex. Solly STH 16's to 16, Pivot 18s are set to 18, I also have size 14 feet and I'm over 6' 5". It was taught when we raced moguls and skied BC, Losing your skis will cost you the race or be put in a terrible place in the BC. So we cranked them to max DIN.
Now having said that, I crashed Sunday, hauling ass in some rain crust variable snow and I'm awaiting an appointment with a Doc. Maybe I just ran out of talent and shit just went badly.. But some part of me is wondering. Am I sitting today with a jacked up knee because my DIN is too high?
Yes Neil, we’re getting older. I stopped cranking din and set at the top of the recommended range for my height and weight. If we want to keep skiing into old age we should do this.
Are you still in Wenatchee?
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Shit dude, your din should be like 8....
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That's kinda how I feel now. If I want to keep it up, I gotta settle down a bit.. We're living in Naples Idaho.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Could be complete BS but I've always heard a 15 din binding set on 12 is better than a 12 din binding set on 12 (and so forth). In other words, its better not to go around with the spring always fully compressed.
I have been dialing down my DIN for a couple of seasons now. I agree when Racing, Bumps, or Powder require a high din. Chatter could cause you to loose a shoe. It sucks digging for skis at the resort on a powder day.
After running 916's I switched to 914's
Then STH(2) running down from a maxed out 916 to something in the 10 / 12 range on all of my clamps.
The DIN chart has you subtract 1 for skiers over 50. So there is that.
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After I turned 50 I lied about my age for years but at 70 I finally gave up and started telling the truth. I'm impressed that at settings that used to prelease for me years ago --when I was learning to ski and called myself a level II--I don't get prereleases now. Elastic travel works. (STH bindings).
If you’re more than one or two din above the chart for a type three plus skier, you’re high. Unless you’re hucking hudge and going Mach looney
Last time I checked decades ago, I’m 8.5, but ride nine or ten and never pre released since I ditched marker biometric. Fuck those bindings.
I could ski seven all day long, until shit hits the fan. But going over ten makes no sense for me, since I’m not sending hospital air.
Ymmv
Edit. Just saw that post about -1 for over 50. Fuck that. Maybe 60. I’ll let you know in a few more years.
don't bindings release easyier with a small BSL ?
I started going -1 about 5 years ago (65) when my ribs started breaking too easily. By -1 I mean DIN for height, weight, BSL and level and then -1 line on the chart for age. So the equivalent of a level II DIN when I call myself IIIQuote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
At 66 going on 67, I ride 5 different bindings at 7.5. By the charts, that's a +1 given weight, age, bsl, & height. Not that I doubt the general recommendations but don't want to hit something and get jarred off a ski. Fudging the number upward provides some assurance that I won't be making a one ski recovery or worse. Wouldn't trust +2, that's a gamble and frankly, don't need that retention. Well....maybe if I get to the Hole this year I'll dial up for "special circumstances" on the Lotuses, just a smidge.