I don't get the NCAA (NSR)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735

If the names "Seminole" and "Brave" are offensive, then how isn't "Fighting Irish" offensive to Irish people, or "Nittany Lions" offensive to cat lovers?

In all seriousness, I can understand how some people could be a little perturbed by their ancestors names being associated with really drunk kids packing football stadiums, but some of those names have been used by the schools for close to a century and god damnit, college football is a tradition that should not be messed with! (Unless it is to get rid of the bullshit BCS)

It's not the names, it's the cartoonish (and stereotypical) depictions of their ancestors by the mascot.

Same goes for Fightin' Irish but I think most ND fans are too drunk to care. :D

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Originally Posted by PaSucks

If the names "Seminole" and "Brave" are offensive, then how isn't "Fighting Irish" offensive to Irish people,

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Apparently there are at least 20% Irish folks there. Check the new standard:

North Carolina-Pembroke, which uses the nickname Braves, will not face sanctions. NCAA president Myles Brand explained said the school's student body has historically admitted a high percentage of American Indians and more than 20 percent of the students are American Indians.

Sadly, for those names that are actual tribes, the tribes will suffer less publicity and perhaps fall further into obscurity. When a young kid or college student asks "what's a Chippewa?" they can then begin a dialogue that just might teach them the history and culture of another people that were around before the onslaught of western eurpoean culture.
Personally, I like the old tribe names. Generic names like "braves" or "redskins" I could do without, but ultimately who cares.

How many Northern Yankee rednecks would honestly know what a Seminole was without the team name?
"Florida State University is stunned at the complete lack of appreciation for cultural diversity shown by the National Collegiate Athletic Association's executive committee. ... That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole Tribe of Florida as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," Wetherell said Friday in a statement. The Seminole Tribe of Florida passed a resolution in June supporting the school's use of the nickname and tribal images.


P.S. - Squaw Mountain is so racist ;)

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Originally Posted by 13

It's not the names, it's the cartoonish (and stereotypical) depictions of their ancestors by the mascot.

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Here's the logo the athletic teams used at my high school
http://highschoolsports.net/images/l...4891520789.gif

And I guess they're still using it today since I found it on the high school's web site. We were called the "Big Reds," by the way. I'm a little surprised they're still using it.

The thing I hate is whenever a school does change their nickname they choose something really boring as a replacement. I guess the most famous example is the Stanford Cardinal (replacing Indians).

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Originally Posted by 13

It's not the names, it's the cartoonish (and stereotypical) depictions of their ancestors by the mascot.

Same goes for Fightin' Irish but I think most ND fans are too drunk to care. :D

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I'm all for the elimination of the names and mascots that are actually cartoonish and stereotypical, such as Redskin, or the Cleaveland Indians Logo, but not all of them are. The Seminoles Mascot is actually dressed by real Seminole members before the game, and the universidy gets permission from the tribe before every thing they do that involves the name.

Really what it comes down to is this came out of nowhere and it involves the NCAA telling Native Americans and the rest of us what we should be offended by, and that is the most offensive thing of all.

Myles Brand is a megalomaniac on a power trip. He does not have the best interests of college athletics in mind.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Apparently there are at least 20% Irish folks there. Check the new standard:

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There are, as well as an Irish studies program and a satellite college sending kids abroad in Dublin.

Pretty strange seeing as it was founded by a French monk and Notre Dame is indeed French for "Our Lady". We were always able to forget about that as we were drinking and fighting after football games though.

I guess thats why KU just made up a bird for their logo. No one can get pissed now!

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Originally Posted by scoober

There are, as well as an Irish studies program and a satellite college sending kids abroad in Dublin.

Pretty strange seeing as it was founded by a French monk and Notre Dame is indeed French for "Our Lady". We were always able to forget about that as we were drinking and fighting after football games though.

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They had to switch to the Irish because not bathing, smoking too much and surrendering turned out not to draw the students.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Apparently there are at least 20% Irish folks there. Check the new standard:

North Carolina-Pembroke, which uses the nickname Braves, will not face sanctions. NCAA president Myles Brand explained said the school's student body has historically admitted a high percentage of American Indians and more than 20 percent of the students are American Indians.

Sadly, for those names that are actual tribes, the tribes will suffer less publicity and perhaps fall further into obscurity. When a young kid or college student asks "what's a Chippewa?" they can then begin a dialogue that just might teach them the history and culture of another people that were around before the onslaught of western eurpoean culture.
Personally, I like the old tribe names. Generic names like "braves" or "redskins" I could do without, but ultimately who cares.

How many Northern Yankee rednecks would honestly know what a Seminole was without the team name?
"Florida State University is stunned at the complete lack of appreciation for cultural diversity shown by the National Collegiate Athletic Association's executive committee. ... That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole Tribe of Florida as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," Wetherell said Friday in a statement. The Seminole Tribe of Florida passed a resolution in June supporting the school's use of the nickname and tribal images.


P.S. - Squaw Mountain is so racist ;)

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UNC-Pembroke was exempt because they were founded in order to educate Injins in the area, not because they have a generic mascot, or currently admit them.

I really hope the NCAA losses this one. Or else PETA people are going to start compaining about animal mascots.

BTW, this is not going to effect football because the NCAA does not govern bowl games and the ban only applies to post season tournaments. Should FSU make it to a bowl game this year, Chief Osceola and the helmet spear will not have to be covered. They would have to cover logos if they made it to the NCAA Tournament in March. Depending on how you interpret the rules, if FSU were to make it to the ACC Championship game, they may or may not have to cover up the logos.

BYU Sucks. ;)

Heard an interesting take on this while driving a cop car through the Upper Pennisula this past winter. It was a local talk show discussing the state's tribal leaders visiting the state capitol for the first time in many years. The guest, a leader of one of the tribes, felt this issue was a distraction from real American Indian issues, such as poor education.

Add to the should-be-offensive list:

Yankees
Canucks

http://www.dartreview.com/images/store/tee-front.jpg
Wah-hoo-wah!

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Originally Posted by KevinDineen

Heard an interesting take on this while driving a cop car through the Upper Pennisula this past winter.

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being cuffed & stuffed & getting a ride to the local drunk tank I don't think qualifies as 'driving a cop car'. ;)

Wasn't this somewhat of an issue at U of Utah a few years back? So they are keeping the name but that is why "Swoop" is the mascot, right? Or does Swoop have nothing to do with it?

And we're the Cowboys, but most of the students here have never ridden a horse. :rolleyes: :D Hell, last time I rode a horse I was about 13. It's funny when they do promotional posters for athletics, and they make the basketball players (guys mostly from inner city Chicago and Detroit) dress up in Wranglers, chaps and cowboy hats and sit on horses and bails of hay. ;)

I am sick of that stupid f-ing Kid Rock song "Cowboy" that they play at football and basketball games though...

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Originally Posted by 72Twenty

Wasn't this somewhat of an issue at U of Utah a few years back? So they are keeping the name but that is why "Swoop" is the mascot, right? Or does Swoop have nothing to do with it?
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ROOSEVELT - While the NCAA has declared that the University of Utah is in violation of its new policy banning Indian nicknames that are "hostile and abusive," many in the Ute tribe for whom the school is named are angry that the U. is under attack.
Irene Cuch, a tribal leader at the Unitah and Ouray Indian Reservation located about four hours east of Salt Lake City, said the decision should be theirs.
"A non-Indian organization should not be the one to make the
decision. This should come from tribal leaders," Cuch said.
She said she is proud of the university naming itself after her tribe as
long as the school uses the name in a respectful manner, which she said the school has done. Early in the relationship between the tribe and the university, Cuch said, Ute leaders were shown a school logo that depicted a caricature of an Indian. The tribe objected, and the university immediately withdrew the proposal.
"As long as it's not abusive or disrespectful, I think it's a good thing," Cuch said.
Several tribal members agreed.
Roberta Reed-Tapoof proudly wears a U. basketball jersey at outings and she and her husband try to make as many home football and basketball games as they can, despite the lengthy commute from their home in Fort Duchesne.
"It doesn't bother me that the U. uses the Ute name. I think if they change it, they are going to lose some fans," Reed-Tapoof said.
Pat Reed, a distant relative of Reed-Tapoof, said she enjoys the U.'s use of the image.
"I don't think it's degrading. It's actually more of a plus," she said.
For many members, their tribe being the namesake for the state's flagship school is a source of pride. Others see it as a matter of honoring a longtime agreement between the university and the Ute nation.
"The leaders gave permission long ago, and that should be respected," said Constance Eaton, a tribal member who attended the U. for part of her college career. "We are being honored by having our name on a school of higher education."
U. fan and tribal member Doyle Conetah, 14, takes a lighter view of the controversy.
"I think they should be able to use it," he said, "as long as they keep winning."

Oh, and by the way, why is UNLV the Rebels?

Bobby Knight said it best when he was quoted as saying the NCAA is a monopoly and they do whatever the hell they want. Think about all the different ways they take advantage of the student athletes... but that's another story. Between this, the ruling on Jeremy Bloom, and the BCS annual scandals, they're becoming quite the joke.

With the direction this fucking country's going, it won't be long before names like Sun Devils and Deacon Demons will also be abolished since those have Satanic overtones, and we can't have that.

What also amazes me is that Aztecs (San Diego State's name and mascot) somehow falls under the scope of this ethnic appeasemnet. The Aztecs are gone, they are no more, they have ceased to be! And yet, there are some who believe to use their name is offensive to native Americans. Why is this so? Somebody please enlightment me.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

ROOSEVELT - While the NCAA has declared that the University of Utah is in violation of its new policy banning Indian nicknames that are "hostile and abusive," many in the Ute tribe for whom the school is named are angry that the U. is under attack.
Irene Cuch, a tribal leader at the Unitah and Ouray Indian Reservation located about four hours east of Salt Lake City, said the decision should be theirs.
"A non-Indian organization should not be the one to make the
decision. This should come from tribal leaders," Cuch said.
She said she is proud of the university naming itself after her tribe as
long as the school uses the name in a respectful manner, which she said the school has done. Early in the relationship between the tribe and the university, Cuch said, Ute leaders were shown a school logo that depicted a caricature of an Indian. The tribe objected, and the university immediately withdrew the proposal.
"As long as it's not abusive or disrespectful, I think it's a good thing," Cuch said.
Several tribal members agreed.
Roberta Reed-Tapoof proudly wears a U. basketball jersey at outings and she and her husband try to make as many home football and basketball games as they can, despite the lengthy commute from their home in Fort Duchesne.
"It doesn't bother me that the U. uses the Ute name. I think if they change it, they are going to lose some fans," Reed-Tapoof said.
Pat Reed, a distant relative of Reed-Tapoof, said she enjoys the U.'s use of the image.
"I don't think it's degrading. It's actually more of a plus," she said.
For many members, their tribe being the namesake for the state's flagship school is a source of pride. Others see it as a matter of honoring a longtime agreement between the university and the Ute nation.
"The leaders gave permission long ago, and that should be respected," said Constance Eaton, a tribal member who attended the U. for part of her college career. "We are being honored by having our name on a school of higher education."
U. fan and tribal member Doyle Conetah, 14, takes a lighter view of the controversy.
"I think they should be able to use it," he said, "as long as they keep winning."

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Wow, that's actually really cool! I agree with it, too....

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Originally Posted by Viva

With the direction this fucking country's going, it won't be long before names like Sun Devils and Deacon Demons will also be abolished since those have Satanic overtones, and we can't have that.

What also amazes me is that Aztecs (San Diego State's name and mascot) somehow falls under the scope of this ethnic appeasemnet. The Aztecs are gone, they are no more, they have ceased to be! And yet, there are some who believe to use their name is offensive to native Americans. Why is this so? Somebody please enlightment me.

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Its actually the Demon Deacons.

There's a difference?

What's next? Banning historical mascots such as Spartans, Trojans, Crusaders, Pirates and start naming schools after rocks, plants, and unicellular organisms?

My high school mascot was a rock ... let me tell you how cool that is. :rolleyes:

A college in Wisconsin has a mascot called the Bluegolds... I spent my 5 years of college (not at that school, but near there) trying to figure out what the hell a bluegold was.