Ski Boot Canting and the backcountry

This past season, I started canting my boots. My left boot has a 1.5 degree cant and my right boot has a .5 degree. When skiing, the difference with canted vs. non-canted boots is surprisingly significant. There is no way to can't boots for tech bindings. I will no longer be using pin bindings. Lately, I have noticed that the likes of dukes, freerides, guardians, trackers, etc., have become very scarce in anything under 110mm brakes. The skis that I would like to mount are only 93mm underfoot. What are the non-tech bindings options that are realistically available. Anyone else who wonders into the backcountry canting? If so, what are you using?

rather then shimming the boot, would a shim under the tech binding be an option?

and most frame binding come with 110 brakes, but skinny are avail.

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Originally Posted by mntlion

rather then shimming the boot, would a shim under the tech binding be an option?

and most frame binding come with 110 brakes, but skinny are avail.

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Yeah, that's what i do, shims under tech bindings. Works.

Just Mark your left and right skis and pay attention so you don't switch them

Don't get frame biddings.

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I'm knock kneed, my feet are flatter than piss on a plate but they are both the same, I used to rely on eccentric cuff cants on the boot shell but the mercury and then the vulcan don't have therm so now I just use foot beds in the boot which seem to deal with the foot issues

I think they would be easy to cant but i haven't had to do anything

I can't tell if these are only wide enough for race ski widths: https://www.artechski.com/ski-racing-accessories/

Just say "no" to frame bindings.

... Thom

I'd recommend you have your ski boots canted in a store with professionals advising, instead of in the back country.

Look into SBS shims (internal boot shims).

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Originally Posted by mntlion

rather then shimming the boot, would a shim under the tech binding be an option?

and most frame binding come with 110 brakes, but skinny are avail.

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this ^^^

I don't know about the backcountry , but
canting resulted in the biggest improvement in my skiing since Custom footbeds
( I am with you, schindler.
under-binding canting may not be ideal, but it can be Very significant )

Good luck...

The point is that you can not can’t AT tech boots, And it is not smart to put a piece of plastic between the top sheet in the binding

why is it not smart?

I have like 50 days on a canted touring set up. Just get longer screw for the high side and you will be fine.

Also internal shims dont do the same thing as between binding and ski.

Well, I was told this by the two boot fitters whom I trust here in P.C. It must have something to do with screw length, creating a space with plastic between the ski and binding and durability.
But, I am glad that you are doing this with encouraging results.

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Originally Posted by LC

Look into SBS shims (internal boot shims).

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+1. I've use them in my Mercurys/Vulcans for years. Yes, technically they're not the same as sole canting but they work for me.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

.......And it is not smart to put a piece of plastic between the top sheet in the binding

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Total bollux. I've done hundreds of shim set-ups for people, mostly just under the toe for delta correction, but I've done plenty of canted shims under the toe & heel.

And 1.5/0.5 degrees isn't that much. The problem with a number of tech bindings, particularly at the toe, is that they're wider than the off-the-shelf thin canting shims available from Tognar so you might need to have them custom made which used to mean them being thicker/taller than you'd want but these days you just need to find someone with a 3D printer. But most of the smaller footprint tech bindings will work with the Tognar strips.

its not smart if you dont use longer screws. but its fine

also my usual order to do things in (is possible)

1) is the shell fit correct. too big and the foot just slides around
2) a better footbed, custom, or off the shelf.
3) Inside the boot shims and toe/heel lifts if needed
4) upper cuff alignment (the side bolts that hold the upper and lower shell together
5) last step, if still needed, is to cant the boot sole, or shim the binding

YMMV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

its not smart if you dont use longer screws. but its fine

also my usual order to do things in (is possible)

1) is the shell fit correct. too big and the foot just slides around
2) a better footbed, custom, or off the shelf.
3) Inside the boot shims and toe/heel lifts if needed
4) upper cuff alignment (the side bolts that hold the upper and lower shell together
5) last step, if still needed, is to cant the boot sole, or shim the binding

YMMV

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mntlionDave is The Man around here, and I am with spyder.

This does not mean your bootfitters are wrong, schindler. - from Here, though, I am considering their focus ( Alpine (highly likely) , racing (Maybe) ) ;

I can see benefits to boot sole canting ( though I am uneasy about the interface with the binding ( - But Less (uneasy) If they are beveling Both surfaces of the lugs ) )


I have two set-up with 3* cants under-binding ( … I will Always remember the responsiveness of the Mantras - once I got them on the (Correct) feet ( opposite feet was Not-good ) )
they are both - easily - my most responsive skis ( Mantras and Scott Missions. I do have several quivers... )



I would offer two things :
IF they are mounted correctly ( proper screw length ) , you should be fine - And no more likely to have Trouble than with an uncanted set-up ;

consider your goals and your equipment choices --
there still may be situations where there is Good Reason to 'pin' -
fortunately, in 2019, it is All about choices (!) … You get to choose !


Good luck... (tj)

I don't think that the heel of my AT boot allows for canting
Attachment 278450

Whereas, here is my alpine boot canted and shaved.
Attachment 278451
Attachment 278452
Attachment 278453

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Well, I was told this by the two boot fitters whom I trust here in P.C. It must have something to do with screw length, creating a space with plastic between the ski and binding and durability.
But, I am glad that you are doing this with encouraging results.

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Sounds like a couple bootfitters who are hoping for an extra $200 per pair of boots.

its not that like they can make him canted tech fitting touring boot.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

I don't think that the heel of my AT boot allows for canting

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More importantly there is no way to alter the angle of the tech toe fittings.

Fortunately there is no need to rout the toe or heel of your touring boot if you put the shims under your bindings. As noted above, many people do this successfully, "smartly" putting longer screws in as needed to maintain pullout strength.

Maybe, I will buy shims from Tognar. I wonder how long the screws should be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Well, I was told this by the two boot fitters whom I trust here in P.C. It must have something to do with screw length, creating a space with plastic between the ski and binding and durability.
But, I am glad that you are doing this with encouraging results.

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psssh, I'd rather cant the binding than the boot any day. Boot canting is semi permanent depending on the technique used, whereas you can shim bindings as many times as you want as long as you aren't an idiot with the pozidrive. What happens when your leg/hip/q-angle shape changes as the season progresses? Re-cant the boot or change shims? Change shims.

I normally buy the shim cut them, measure then order the right screws for my binding from binding freedom. I would nt guess on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Well, I was told this by the two boot fitters whom I trust here in P.C. It must have something to do with screw length, creating a space with plastic between the ski and binding and durability.
But, I am glad that you are doing this with encouraging results.

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Did it on 3 pairs of Backcountry skis without any problems

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Maybe, I will buy shims from Tognar. I wonder how long the screws should be?

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Maybe measure the thread depth of the current screws and add the thickness of the shim?

Here's some Salomon MTN bindings w/brakes on 2° Tognar-sourced ("Cant Company" brand) cant strips.

Attachment 283205

The cant strip is centered relative to the ski/binding. The toepiece extends beyond the edges by an equal ~1mm on both sides of the strip, but the height of the strip (even on the thin side) raises the binding far enough off the ski that there are no issues with the bit of overhang. It seems like there should be no problems with the width of this particular model of binding even at the maximum single shim angle of 3°. I will see if there will be problems with the wider-footprint Look SPX 12 Dual that I will also cant in the near future.

Screw lengths (for Binding Freedom inserts) needed to be increased from the 10mm Pozi-Flathead M5 (reduced to 9mm head diameter) BF-suggested for a stock setup... to 12mm and 14mm* for the canted setup.

* the 14mm is to facilitate my testing of 2.5° and 3° cant shims. Below 2° I suspect you will be fine with 12mm on both thin and thick sides.

Aside: assuming one needs equal cants on both sides (admittedly not a great assumption), just one of these Cant Company strips is enough material to support the length of a pair of Salomon MTN bindings w/brakes, assuming you cut material-efficient with a sharp box-cutter (as opposed to less-material-efficient with a miter saw).

I have mtns called 3.5 on the left and. 5 on the right.
No issues at all.

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