Overlapping and conflicting binding holes

Starting a new thread dedicated to solving the problem of overlapping and conflicting binding holes when remounting (think figure eight or more overlap. ) There is information scattered and diluted throughout the forum on this topic.

The problem:

You have a pair of skis to remount that will have holes which are overlapping the old holes. For whatever reasons, you cannot remedy the problem by simply changing the mount point or buying new skis

The skis:
Metal
Non-metal

Proposed solutions to start discussion:
All involve variations of drill press to allow for less drill but wander
1) fill with epoxy +/- fiberglass/steel wool and redrill
2) epoxy +/- fiberglass/ steel wool and hard wood plugs
3) epoxy, hard wood plugs, and nylon or metal inserts +/- fiberglass +/- steel wool
4) epoxy, and aluminum screws cut flush to top topsheet then tapped
5) +/- helicoils

What actually works without ripping a binding out and dying?

Paging xxx-er, 1000oaks, alpinord, sfb...

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6) If drilling very close to existing hole AND can drill without the tip wandering, drill with 1/4" bit, tap and install stainless steel insert with epoxy. *Add steel wool, FG or other binder to fill any existing void at the insert/old hole overlap. Otherwise, Machinable epoxy or slow cure epoxy first to provide 'tip purchase' for drilling.

Edit: *Optional, if you feel the need.

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

Starting a new thread dedicated to solving the problem of overlapping and conflicting binding holes when remounting (think figure eight or more overlap. ) There is information scattered and diluted throughout the forum on this topic.

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Spent 2.5 hrs last night searching & reading about this exact topic. Have some relevant posts still open as tabs. I can quote a few good ones here to bring some of the old info over if that's cool/useful?

You can gain some thread diameter with helicoils or or inserts. Or T-nut thru the base. Most glue and fill solutions are janky

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Originally Posted by Jethro

You can gain some thread diameter with helicoils or or inserts. Or T-nut thru the base. Most glue and fill solutions are janky

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Well, xxx-er, splat, 1000-oaks and a host of others would argue there are many good ways to plug and redrill without t-nutting from the bottom.

A bad fill job isn't an argument against doing a good fill job.This has been covererd countless times, to the point where yes, a self titled thread like this makes sense.

Alu 12AB threaded screws, fiberglass with G-flex, etc. are plenty strong.

Agreed that holes you want to overlap can be addressed with filling and redrilling (larger diameter holes) for helicoils or inserts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

6) If drilling very close to existing hole AND can drill without the tip wandering, drill with 1/4" bit, tap and install ss insert with epoxy. Add steel wool, FG or other binder to fill any existing void at the insert/old hole overlap. Otherwise, Machinable epoxy or slow cure epoxy first to provide 'tip purchase' for drilling.

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^^^ As always, Terry is a breath of fresh air. ^^^. Buy your tools/supplies from this righteous maggot.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by beasttowest

Spent 2.5 hrs last night searching & reading about this exact topic. Have some relevant posts still open as tabs. I can quote a few good ones here to bring some of the old info over if that's cool/useful?

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Please do!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

6) If drilling very close to existing hole AND can drill without the tip wandering, drill with 1/4" bit, tap and install ss insert with epoxy. Add steel wool, FG or other binder to fill any existing void at the insert/old hole overlap. Otherwise, Machinable epoxy or slow cure epoxy first to provide 'tip purchase' for drilling.

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Brass inserts, ok?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

Brass inserts, ok?


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Brass tap-ins can fatigue over time. Use nylon tap-ins instead. 5/16”/8mm hole is required.

Stainless steel inserts are sealed and coupled with epoxy provide a bomber ‘plug’ with standard tools and tons of standard screw options. 1/4” hole required.

Heli-coils require an esoteric tap and installation tool, but are a good option for alpine screws. Some alpine screws are harder to source than machine screws, however. 1/4” hole is required.


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Slidewright.com

i think i posted my method in either the mount your own skis or binding freedom thread. it is epoxy + dowels, but i thread the dowels to match the hole. then screw in the dowel.

Well, my approach to this problem, which atm I find to be the best. Well, at least I don't have issues with it.
I got Moment Bibby with 3.5 mounts. All of them were for some shitty rental binding and holes were conflicting with Pivots. I plugged all holes with hardwood and epoxy. I took bamboo sticks that I found on fleabay that are ~4.5mm so they fitted really tightly and I had to slightly hammer them in. Let them cure for a week, cut the top of the sticks and made them flush with the ski. Then I drilled ski with BF inserts. I was a bit nerveous about conflicting holes, as I had to drill over bamboo plugs. I found out that they pretty much as strong as core. At least they look like. I easily tapped new holes and now it's 4.5 mounts in one ski.

Example of how it looks like
Attachment 266945

Ah! I knew I was having deja vu. We already have a thread on this - some beautiful Swiss-cheesing over here. No maggots were harmed in the production of this thread (methinks):

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...eriment/page15

Quote:

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Originally Posted by margotron

i think i posted my method in either the mount your own skis or binding freedom thread. it is epoxy + dowels, but i thread the dowels to match the hole. then screw in the dowel.

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^^^ another awesome approach ^^^

... Thom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Well, xxx-er, splat, 1000-oaks and a host of others would argue there are many good ways to plug and redrill without t-nutting from the bottom.

A bad fill job isn't an argument against doing a good fill job.This has been covererd countless times, to the point where yes, a self titled thread like this

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I only mentioned the bomber methods I’d ski. Once the stronger fiberglass or metal topsheet has been compromised, I have little faith in wood plugs. Especially ones which the screws knife threads cut the wood grains into little 1/16” long strands

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Originally Posted by Jethro

I only mentioned the bomber methods I’d ski. Once the stronger fiberglass or metal topsheet has been compromised, I have little faith in wood plugs. Especially ones which the screws knife threads cut the wood grains into little 1/16” long strands

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Foam core skis? 275#? DIN=20? Tele mount? All of the above?

I have trouble living down my OCD nature, and plugging correctly never cost me any sleep. Everyone has a different comfort level.

In the Lhasa thread (post #1237 - https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/....php?p=5575252), @splat just posted about the number of holes he's comfortable with, and it's a lot.

Most people reading this thread would say his plugging method is suspect, but he's only a ski designer ;-)

... Thom

“Apples and oranges are apples and oranges. No matter how many times you bite that orange, it won't taste like apple.
Also, you don't need to geek about the old holes if you fill them with shish kabob sticks and epoxy.
I'm skiing Kusalas with 32 holes per ski because I filled them correctly and am quite confident they're not going to suddenly fold on me.”
Quoted Splat.

He’s talking ski breakage, I’m talking about screw pull out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jethro

He’s talking ski breakage, I’m talking about screw pull out.

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So you're concerned with screw pullout on a fresh mount? Reused holes? Overlapping holes? Foam (or other weak) cores? Tele mounts?

I get that he was talking about breakage, which can be a concern if you have a line of holes perpindicular to the long axis of the ski.

My only concern with Swiss cheese is breakage, and not pullout. I don't know if @splat takes this approach, but that's how I read it, and the reason I pointed to his comments.

... Thom

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Once you decide to go forward with epoxying in wood or whatever to fill the old holes, depending on your location, ask for help from someone nearby that has a drill press and helicoil kit and experience mounting bindings*.

*Like me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Once you decide to go forward with epoxying in wood or whatever to fill the old holes, depending on your location, ask for help from someone nearby that has a drill press and helicoil kit and experience mounting bindings*.

*Like me

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I will! Sounds like a perfect project for one guy with a bottle of scotch and another guy with several bullet holes in his body.

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

I will! Sounds like a perfect project for one guy with a bottle of scotch and another guy with several bullet holes in his body.

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Maybe it's the bottle of scotch (or a 6-pack) that results in there being so many of these Swiss-cheese questions being asked :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Maybe it's the bottle of scotch (or a 6-pack) that results in there being so many of these Swiss-cheese questions being asked [emoji3]

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Probably contributory I agree :)

My reasons are firmly seated in a delayed realization that some of my ski bindings had too much delta. The increased delta has been no bueno for fore aft position; versus, sweet zero delta of the pivots.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

Sounds like a perfect project for one guy with a bottle of scotch and another guy with several bullet holes in his body.

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sig worthy.

Where did the online BSL and binding template tool go? I was looking for it in the search function.

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Originally Posted by SUPERIOR

Where did the online BSL and binding template tool go? I was looking for it in the search function.

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I assume you mean the Powderguide templates? He was having problems with the website and put all of the documents out on Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yYY6Gg2a3Dd245

I have problems accessing it on Firefox, but it works on Chrome. On Firefox, I keep getting a "you are not signed in" message, even when signed in.

... Thom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

Probably contributory I agree :)

My reasons are firmly seated in a delayed realization that some of my ski bindings had too much delta. The increased delta has been no bueno for fore aft position; versus, sweet zero delta of the pivots.

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I've become a recent convert to no delta (Pivots) and flattish boots (Langes). It was a surprise revelation, but I suppose all revelations are ;-)

... Thom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

6) If drilling very close to existing hole AND can drill without the tip wandering, drill with 1/4" bit, tap and install ss insert with epoxy. Add steel wool, FG or other binder to fill any existing void at the insert/old hole overlap. Otherwise, Machinable epoxy or slow cure epoxy first to provide 'tip purchase' for drilling.

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Just did this. The 1/4 holes figure 8ed with old holes. Installed the inserts as normal, cleaned out the old holes, filled with G-flex, and covered with a binding so buddy wouldn't even have to think about it. Not even a little bit concerned. OTOH, they aren't my skis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HHTELE

Not even a little bit concerned. OTOH, they aren't my skis.

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This thread is packed with sig. lines :biggrin: