Peroneous Pain

I am a skier going on my second season out west. I like to charge and ski aggressive regardless of snow conditions. Currently ski on blizzard Cochise with atomic 2015 waymaker carbon boots. Flex is a 100 on the boots. I don't drop cliffs or anything nutty, probably max out at 5-6 foot features. Anyway, over the last couple ski days and in the tail end of last season, I developed some pain in my peroneous muscles (specifically peroneous brevis). This is the area a couple inches above ankle on the outer part of the leg. The pain isn't horrible (a lot of time not noticeable when skiing and tends to recover during the week). I notice the pain most when I am skiing through bumpy crud. Another thing is the pain isn't symmetric. Sometimes one foot hurts more than the other but generally it gets worse the more days and hours I put in.

My research on the issue suggests the cause of this pain coule be multiple factors. First one that comes to mind is skiing in the backseat. Last season, there were definitely times where this pain was triggered from a poor landings or two. This season I will think of nothing but staying aggressive and leaning forward and feel like my form is in fairly good condition. Besides boot issues, another reason I have heard is that I could be innitiating turns too much with my feet? This one is a bit confusing and I am not sure exactly what poor form with regards to feet means? I have also heard that the problem can be exasserbated by stiff wide underfoot skis (Cochise would definitely qualify). One thing that I haven't tried yet is cranking my boots as tight as they can go. Might do that the next day I am out.

In terms of treatment and prevention, I have started stretching and massaging the affected areas. I have also started doing calf raises to help strengthen the muscles. Another thing to mention is the my fitness level is very high. Currently doing something 7 days a week and feel quite a bit stronger than previous ski seasons.

I would like to rule out non boot issues first (throw out thoughts if you got em though) and try to isolate the cause of the problem. While I can still rip it up on the weekend, this little annoyance is keeping me from logging more hours and ultimately going to the next level of ski performance. Thoughts?

Peroneal Tendonitis

PT
Then, if no improvement,
Talk to a doc and look into imaging to see how bad

So after talking to a friend on where I could be going wrong with my form, I realized that I am dorsiflexing (raising up) my foot on my inside ski through the entire turn. I do this inititally to help start my turn but for no reason other than a bad habit, I hold it in. This has the effect of tiring and flexing the peroneous muscles. One of the threads I read did mention this, but I wasn't sure what the guy meant. Basically, the idea is that you should be able to wiggle your toes as your turning. If you can't that is the problem area of your turn.

I will be heading back out tomorrow and will report back whether this helps or not. Going to focused on having the unweighted foot being relaxed and not flexed. Might even help to throw some weight on the inside foot to keep my feet busy from dorsiflexing. Peroneous muscles have been healing but arnt quite a 100%. I have full range of motion in my legs and feet other than having slight pain when I press hard on them.

I'd question if the boots fit properly as the first thing to look at (ankle rolling over). If they are too big (either size or volume) you are going to be fighting to keep your foot in place, which can result in your wonderful experience right now. Good footbeds are also a wise investment, FWIW.

How tall and how much do you weigh? Skill level? A 100 flex boot is not going to give you a ton of support forwards (100 is pretty soft), and you may be leaning back because you can realize there's nothing up front to keep you from going OTB.

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Originally Posted by SJG

I'd question if the boots fit properly as the first thing to look at (ankle rolling over). If they are too big (either size or volume) you are going to be fighting to keep your foot in place, which can result in your wonderful experience right now. Good footbeds are also a wise investment, FWIW.

How tall and how much do you weigh? Skill level? A 100 flex boot is not going to give you a ton of support forwards (100 is pretty soft), and you may be leaning back because you can realize there's nothing up front to keep you from going OTB.

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I am 5' 8" $150. Boots are a 100 flex 26.5. Some new information. Really worked hard on Wednesday to be relaxed and extremely aggressive with my lower body (bent tight knees) to absorb impact and stay forward. This helped a ton and I didn't feel any pain for most of the day. There were times when I hit the sore spot but for the most part it was flawless skiing. I do think my boots are not optimal. Personally, they feel to much of a neutral stance and even when I try to lean forward, it feels like the boots arnt in a natural spot. Hoping to see the black diamond boot fitter for a consult next week to go over the boot situation.

Right now though, I think the main source of my problems is poor form. With how aggressive I like to ski, it only takes a few hard backseat hits to really bruise up your legs. Key going forward is to bend and absorb the bumps like a mother fucker. Work the legs as much as I can to be agressive and counteract the chop. Will report back when I have had time to see boot fitter.

Def PT with banded ankle eversions. Eversion + dorsiflexion with a band around your forefoot and anchored to your other foot (or a desk, etc). I do these at work near daily so I can show up and ski hard in stiff boots for days in a row after not skiing for a while.

Also, don't unweight the uphill leg fully. Try to ski more centered and have a 60/40 weight distribution rather than the old-skool 90/10. You don't need to be that far forward to ski really aggressively. As a drill, try skiing with your boots totally unbuckled. It will help you develop good balance.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Def PT with banded ankle eversions. Eversion + dorsiflexion with a band around your forefoot and anchored to your other foot (or a desk, etc). I do these at work near daily so I can show up and ski hard in stiff boots for days in a row after not skiing for a while.

Also, don't unweight the uphill leg fully. Try to ski more centered and have a 60/40 weight distribution rather than the old-skool 90/10. You don't need to be that far forward to ski really aggressively. As a drill, try skiing with your boots totally unbuckled. It will help you develop good balance.

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That is helpful. Will definitely give that a try. Lately I have been 90/10 unless skiing powder in which case I go for 50/50. Will be so pumped if this is all from bad form. Less injuries plus better skiing. Great combo.

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Originally Posted by WasatchFlatlander

That is helpful. Will definitely give that a try. Lately I have been 90/10 unless skiing powder in which case I go for 50/50. Will be so pumped if this is all from bad form. Less injuries plus better skiing. Great combo.

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You've likely given yourself a bout of tendonitis, which may have been caused by bad form but now needs attention beyond fixing your form. IME, you need to fix both the symptoms (mild, acute tendonitis is usually fixed by progressive loading of the tendon) and the cause (bad form, boots/liners*, etc). A big problem with tendonitis in this area (again IME) is that it tendons don't love being compressed when they're inflamed, so you'll be extra sensitive there. As opposed to a tendonitis like tennis elbow or patellar tendonitis, which isn't generally stuffed into a hard, immobile, compressive boot.

*I've had issue in that area with very stiff tongue style liners, like the Intuition Pro Tongue.

Finally, my experience with this issue is that you need to be in a supportive overlap boot with appropriate calf volume. If you're in a 3-piece boot, or an overlap boot that's too soft, you'll end up over-buckling. If the calf volume is too large, you'll end up over-buckling. YMMV.

Ski lessons and professional boot fitting?

I have had either the same or similar problem before. I tried physical therapy etc. No help. My peroneus longus/brevis was overstreteched in the boot. A slight, 3 mm ish, under the footbed on the lateral side of the forefoot to decrease the peroneal muscles lengths. Alternatively, you could try building up the liner above your foot on the lateral forefoot to make an earlier engagement for eversion.

Overtightening the cuff and booster strap can also cause peroneal pain.

Sometimes peroneal pain goes away once u get in skiing shape and form. However, if i read correctly, this might not be the best case for you as your issues arose end of season last year.





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Anyone have an update on this and if anything has worked for them? I believe I initially got the pain from overbuckling, I took a 2 weeks off until the pain went away. I was then very careful not to overbuckle but I can start to feel the pain coming back. Is simply an issue of form? If so, why would it be starting at the end of the season?

I thought this thread would be about curved weiners

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

thc will fix that right up but i have a feeling the folks in gimp central jong will have a less holistic approach.

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Agreed.

Is this where your fibula connects?

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Originally Posted by splat

Agreed.

Is this where your fibula connects?

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Yep, I feel it most in the ankle but I sometimes feel it mid calf. Maybe my boots are to stiff? I have techinca cochise 120 and weigh 135 lbs.

Almost sounds like buckling too tight is displacing your fibula enough to cause the discomfort. If you rub the muscles running alongside your fibula up or down and it makes it feel better, that's prolly what it is. But you might also talk to a bootfitter who knows his/her shit to get the fit right.