Heel lifter mod: these go to 11.

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04-09-2018, 11:14 PM
swissiphic

4 Attachment(s)

Heel lifter mod: these go to 11.

Wanna do efficient rest step skinning on firm grippy spring snow but yer stock heel risers are vertically challenged?

Make em go to 11 and rest step straight up 40 degrees with eeze.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

Have ski crampons for hard snow but find that they're sooo limited in their spectrum of snow surface condition utility, so I modified my skins for enhanced traction for marching straight up the mountain and was blown away by the stress free, not one backslip, no faceplants, no 'holy shit i'm gonna fall backwards and tomahawk down the mountain uphilling bliss. Unfortunately, I found that the new limiting factor for steep skinning was now ankle flexion/foot angle for comfortable straight up fall line rest step skinning. I maxed out at angles of just over 36 degrees on firm snow before uncomfortable body contortions were required to maintain smooth uphill ambulation.

Tired of that b.s., I wrapped my heel riser in aluminum foil, plugged the hole a few cms down and filled the mold with extra odds and ends of clear and black ptex kicking around the shop. Let 'er cool, unwrapped the xmass present and took er for a test run up a 42 degree steep, 20 foot high manky dirty snowbank around the corner. Worked as advertised. Just a hair of ankle flex but pretty solid footing and heel pressure for efficient rest stepping. Can't wait to bring this setup into the big mountains for steep faces and couloir approaches.

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04-10-2018, 06:27 AM
Skidog

Hasn't someone posted, on more than one occasion, about how they were out in the bc and someone was skinning straight up, while they took the switchback route at a lower angle and beat the steep Skinner? Energy waste?

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04-10-2018, 07:36 AM
swissiphic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidog

Hasn't someone posted, on more than one occasion, about how they were out in the bc and someone was skinning straight up, while they took the switchback route at a lower angle and beat the steep Skinner? Energy waste?

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I could geek out in this response and give you timed a/b comparisons of low vs high angle skinning, heart rate, calorie burn etc. that show, for me, that going steep is both faster and results in less output per vertical foot but i won't waste my time.

Don't know about you but my knees, ankles, hips back and arms aren't designed for traversing across a slope torquing all the connective tissue on hard snow skinning. I'm designed to walk straight up a mountain.

Do you do switchbacks when you walk up a flight of stairs?
04-10-2018, 07:43 AM
hafjell

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissiphic

I could geek out in this response and give you timed a/b comparisons of low vs high angle skinning, heart rate, calorie burn etc. that show, for me, that going steep is both faster and results in less output per vertical foot but i won't waste my time.

Don't know about you but my knees, ankles, hips back and arms aren't designed for traversing across a slope torquing all the connective tissue on hard snow skinning. I'm designed to walk straight up a mountain.

Do you do switchbacks when you walk up a flight of stairs?

This is the best.
04-10-2018, 07:44 AM
Skidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissiphic

I could geek out in this response and give you timed a/b comparisons of low vs high angle skinning, heart rate, calorie burn etc. that show, for me, that going steep is both faster and results in less output per vertical foot but i won't waste my time.

Don't know about you but my knees, ankles, hips back and arms aren't designed for traversing across a slope torquing all the connective tissue on hard snow skinning. I'm designed to walk straight up a mountain.

Do you do switchbacks when you walk up a flight of stairs?

No but I do hiking in the backcountry and mtn biking. There's a reason they do that and it ain't just erosion.

Everybody has their own thing, but I'd imagine dynafit, et Al did research via end users as to best climbing heights.

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04-10-2018, 08:09 AM
swissiphic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidog

No but I do hiking in the backcountry and mtn biking. There's a reason they do that and it ain't just erosion.

Everybody has their own thing, but I'd imagine dynafit, et Al did research via end users as to best climbing heights.

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Lol, up to a decade ago I also used to believe that manufacturers had dialed in their own products. Then I started bending more rocker into skis, changing rocker profiles, modded my boots for personal preference for flex and stance angles, etc...

Prime example is my k2 darkside skis. In stock form they were the worst feeling pieces of shit i'd ever skied. Tips dove, no sweet spot, hooky in crust.

But I liked the round flex and felt I could improve the skis to fit my needs.

So, bent more rocker into the tips, pulled back the rocker contact point, spooned the tips and voile, they turned into the best feeling skis, for me, i've ever had the pleasure of riding on in prit near all conditions.

If you know yourself, you know what you prefer and you can customize life to fit yer needs.

In the end, this mod is targeted to those that have seen the light. I'm preaching to the converted and helping all those bros 'step it up' to the next level of skinning bliss. Those with different anatomy and/or personal preference can disregard...this isn't a debate about skin trail angles...i'm sure there's volumes of debates about this on other threads.

In the end, like you said; "Everybody has their own thing..."
04-10-2018, 08:11 AM
zion zig zag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidog

No but I do hiking in the backcountry and mtn biking. There's a reason they do that and it ain't just erosion.

Everybody has their own thing, but I'd imagine dynafit, et Al did research via end users as to best climbing heights.

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I think what you are missing here is the hard snow part. When you set a skin track in soft snow it's easy for it to be flat across a slope. In the spring, when the snow is hard, and your skis/skins don't penetrate, it's a pain in the ass to sidehill/traverse/switchback. You either have to turn your knees/hips/ankles, like he stated above, or you have to try and skin flat with the edge of the ski barely biting in. This is a narrow range of conditions where the snow is firm enough for the skis not to leave a track but not firm enough for you to boot straight up the slope, and all of the terrain is steep. In this case, I get it.
04-10-2018, 08:28 AM
swissiphic

Quote:

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I think what you are missing here is the hard snow part...........This is a narrow range of conditions where the snow is firm enough for the skis not to leave a track but not firm enough for you to boot straight up the slope, and all of the terrain is steep. In this case, I get it.

Began going steep in pretty much all snow conditions after i added tail extenders onto my skis so that the ski angle in snow is parallel to, or even tails high compared to slope incline. Notable increase in efficiency for truly deep bottomless, upside down or coastal thigh deep powtato solo trail breaking by going steep vs. lower angle. I compared times and energy output and realized that by going steep rest step style in a bull low gear, you sweat less, can keep breath rate down, heart rate down and decrease time compared to floundering on a lower angle approach in deep snow where the resistance of snow on stride results in, for me, subjectively almost the same feeling output level whether going flat, low angle or steep due to the deep ski pen.

Have few other innovations to experiment in regards to specific deep snow solo trailbreaking but pow season is over. For next season the tail extenders will have a big flare and a chevron shaped grip zone for bomber tail float and traction.

Probably should be noted that i primarily solo and have to build new roads quite regularly rather than following established skin trails sooo, my opinions are based mostly on that context of skinning...
04-10-2018, 08:29 AM
AweShuksan

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissiphic

Have ski crampons for hard snow but find that they're sooo limited in their spectrum of snow surface condition utility, so I modified my skins for enhanced traction for marching straight up the mountain and was blown away...

Never heard of this skin mod...I like going straight up most of the time too and, in most snow conditions, the skins have enough traction but I'm not aware of any way to modify my skins for more traction. My TLT 5's have enough forward ROM that I don't need taller heel risers but please share your skin mod!
04-10-2018, 08:39 AM
cmcrawfo

OP has some of the craziest / most creative mods and hacks going.

Its a fine line between genius and insanity.

Keep up the great work.
04-10-2018, 08:48 AM
swissiphic

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AweShuksan

Never heard of this skin mod...I like going straight up most of the time too and, in most snow conditions, the skins have enough traction but I'm not aware of any way to modify my skins for more traction. My TLT 5's have enough forward ROM that I don't need taller heel risers but please share your skin mod!

Well, here it is but...the thing is, it's not dialed for materials. I was a bit stressed about an approach through steep, gullied, cliff bandy old growth forest and I literally dreamt this up the night before the ski day. Needed bomber traction so as to not blow steps and fall into devils club and down gully walls...

So, I used what i had on hand, a hot glue gun. Added skin fins to tips, underfoot and tails. Apply the hot glue, then carve a vertical face on the medial side of the 'fin' to provide traction during necessary sidehilling. All i gotta say is; game changer. Felt like driving on studded winter tires on icy roads compared to bald summers. It was a weird mental shift to feel so confident marching straight up everything and not having to 'think' about micro adjustments to ensure not to blow a stride, backslide or faceplant. Buddy i was with was struggling big time while i was just walking in the park.

In the end, the hot glue is now cracked and self combusting...which provides its own unintended benefit...even better traction but a bit more glide resistance. Surprisingly, when new, the skin fins didn't really add all that much more noticable drag but i've only used them in limited spring like snow conditions.

The second unintended benefit was being able to kick and glide on the flats feeling like yer on railroad tracks. Arrow straight tracking compared to the wishy washy feeling that motoring on flat hard snow or softened corn on fat rockered skis sometimes feels like. Amazing.

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04-10-2018, 08:51 AM
thefortrees

I admire your excitement and willingness to try new things! But daaaayyyuuum, that's an ugly heel riser job. Don't think it is purdy enough for the masses yet. Awesome to see this though and congrats on the success.
04-10-2018, 08:58 AM
KillerMonkey

Do they sell skins with directional features or "fins" similar to nordic skis?
04-10-2018, 09:27 AM
Skidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmcrawfo

OP has some of the craziest / most creative mods and hacks going.

Its a fine line between genius and insanity.

Keep up the great work.

I agree the tinkering aspect of it all is cool for sure. OP likes to tinker.

I also get the slick spring skin track thoughts and sidehilling. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

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04-10-2018, 09:34 AM
El Chupacabra

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerMonkey

Do they sell skins with directional features or "fins" similar to nordic skis?

Rax skins?
04-10-2018, 09:47 AM
margotron

What kind of glue? I have never tried anything from JB weld to epoxy to marine weld etc that wouldn't brake in this use case. also wtf did you glue to the heel to raise it
04-10-2018, 10:02 AM
Toddball

When is TGR Cribs: swissiphic going to air?
04-10-2018, 10:17 AM
Mofro261

Pounds carpet nails thru skins= TRACTION
04-10-2018, 10:39 AM
hafjell

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissiphic

Apply the hot glue, then carve a vertical face on the medial side of the 'fin' to provide traction during necessary sidehilling.

What does this mean? Could you provide more detail?
04-10-2018, 10:40 AM
sruffian

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerMonkey

Do they sell skins with directional features or "fins" similar to nordic skis?

Directional features like being able to slide uphill and not back down?
04-10-2018, 11:47 AM
cmcrawfo

Quote:

Originally Posted by hafjell

What does this mean? Could you provide more detail?

he just shaped the inside edge of the hotglue line, to give it a better shape profile.
04-10-2018, 12:17 PM
tuco

Quote:

Originally Posted by margotron

What kind of glue? I have never tried anything from JB weld to epoxy to marine weld etc that wouldn't brake in this use case. also wtf did you glue to the heel to raise it

See all those words around the pictures?
04-10-2018, 02:00 PM
hafjell

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmcrawfo

he just shaped the inside edge of the hotglue line, to give it a better shape profile.

Cheers.