is this like top secret shit or something? not even pictures or pricing info?
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is this like top secret shit or something? not even pictures or pricing info?
Oh, I have a pair right here, but my digi cam is on the fritz, sorry.
also rumours of a goode carbon spat type ski
Dave goode's brother was one of the people that helped with the original spatula idea and now that atomic has canned the programme he is picking it up and looking at it again. Looks like testing this season and out for the public ????? if ever
from what I heard there is a k2 spat in development that is identical from the waist to tail in dimensions, but there is some sidecut moving forward off the toe for better performance out of the pow. I dont get how it will ski the same in pow, but Ive heard its a good advancement overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil E
That goes right along with what a K2 rep told me. "K2 has a reputation for making versatile skis and we don't want to make a ski that only performs in powder"
:rolleyes:
I understand, but I think it's bullshit. The world does not need anymore do-it-all-one-ski-quiver skis. People have quivers BECAUSE they want different skis to do different things well. If you want to make the ultimate pow ski, you shouldn't even be thinking about how it works on hardpack. And honestly, if you can't handle spats on the occasional cattrack or runout, you're a pussy.
I don't think K2 is exactly going to give McConkey free reign on this ski the way Volant did.
I think the biggest problem is that Volant still owns the Spatula patent.Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
An industrious group could challenge it: I know there have been pictures of prior art (i.e. reverse camber/sidecut) skis posted around the Net. But K2 may not want to get into the inevitable legal fight with Atomic for the tiny amount of profit they'll get from a niche ski. Remember that Volant only made 1000 pair of Spatulas years ago and they *still* haven't all been sold.
This also means that K2 has to differentiate their new ski from the Spatula somehow, or people will just buy Spatulas for $300.
Says who? From what I know, Atomic purchased Volant -- including the patent for the Spatula design. They are other companies out there producing Spatula-like designs, and they aren't being hounded by tons of lawyers from Atomic, so that leads to a couple conclusions -- either Atomic doesn't have the patent anymore (which some industrious person could probably find out online), or Atomic just doesn't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
Volant may not have a European patent for the Spatula -- just the American patent. Does anyone know whether this is the case? Dan (Birdos) is still in Europe, AFAIK, so that's my theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
Also, Volant probably doesn't view boutique builders doing less than 10 pairs as a business competitor. K2, on the other hand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
There was never a patent granted for the Spatula.
Case closed.
I agree the Spatula is as niche-ski as a ski can get, but a ski like Evil E described isn't really much different in terms of being a niche ski. It sounds like what k2 is making is a Line Prophet, a ski that will probably have sales similar to the Spatula. A wide ass, no sidecut, pow ski isn't going to be significantly more attractive to the person who thought the Spatula was too far out there. So, I guess my point is, this new ski shouldn't be touted as the next spatula, because it isn't. Maybe the next Prophet, which is kinda redundant because K2 already has a fat-ass ski that is versatile: Made'n AK.
I'm beginning to think big ski companies are retarded at this point. Support smaller start-ups, by 4Frnt's for everyday skis, or save for a pair of Tabla Rasa's or Iggy FFF's if you want a super fat. I'd rather support Adam Sherman than K2, and he'll at least listen to my input and make a ski for me . Yes, it may cost way more, but IMHO, its worth it.
Can you patent a sidecut? You could probably patent the construction, but I don't know if you could patent a shape. I mean, there have to be skis out there made by different manufacturers with the same dimensions (not that I can think of off the top of my head, obviously). It is an original idea for a snow ski, but as Cliff himself says, look at boats, waterskis, etc. Kinda takes away from the patentability, I would think, but I really don't know.
www.odysseyskis.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
i skied my spats like 80 days this year....no way in HELL there was pow everyone of those days.....i skied em on boilerplate many days.....maybe im psycho, but i love spats in all conditions....
my legs hate me for it though
How many spatulas did volant make? 500 or so? If with that small a run they are still appearing for sale in the plastic, at close to wholesale. Basic economics suggest it wasn't a business success. The biggest reason no one's touched it yet.
Atomic did, in a way, circa 1992. Now abandoned. I found it on my quest to find a Spatula patent, which I didn't find. Anyhow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven S. Dallas
edit: takes a little bit to load.
That's funny, they tried to patent the powder ski. I like this line of argument the best:
"Advantageously, the ski has a length less than 200 cm. This facilitates short turns, especially when skiing on very narrow and steep gullies.
According to another embodiment, it is also possible that the area of the running surface layer be between 1500 cm.sup.2 and 5000 cm.sup.2, preferably 2200 cm.sup.2. Surprisingly, this results in surface pressure reduced almost by half, even when using pairs of skis for skiing. This results in less compression of the snow cover and less stress on the soil and plants beneath it. It is furthermore possible for a larger number of persons to ski on deep snow slopes with approximately the same conditions, since overly great compression of the snow below the powder layer is avoided. As a result, approximately the same skiing conditions are maintained over an extended period of time."
Save the trees!!!
What's this offset binding shit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
Spatula Patent Application (rerun?)
boss: My sarcasm meter is broken... That offset shit is still found on the Sanouk's.
edub: Well, there you go. The patent was never granted, just applied for.
I like how it's offset and off-center.Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
funnny... I skied the Atomic Protos back in 93? the powder piggies i think they were being called they WERE mounted over the inside edge, but not off set
Yeah. All the Atomic Powder Plus' had marks for inside edge mounting, as well as the Rossi Axioms. I've bought used Axiom with offset binders. Stupid idea, but I guess back then I used to idealize my buddy's dad's style: he kept 'em together like he was on a monoboard. I think after I saw some movies with Schmidt i forgot all about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
It takes years for a patent to be granted, and nowadays they grant a patent for everything you apply for. Bigger question is whether Atomic (owner) and K2 want to duke it out with their lawyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
McConkey has applied for a patent, unfortunately all other information as to the status is held confidential by the USPTO. It may still be granted or declined, or it may have already been declined, hard to say.
I dunno how they distinguish from the prior art.Quote:
Originally Posted by eDub
Spatula apparantly was not the first reverse camber or reverse sidecut ski.
It was just the first one designed and marketed for advanced pow skiers.
Maybe Volant owes some money to Nishizawa??Quote:
Originally Posted by patent application
Bottom line - there aint enough money in spatulation to justify a team of legal weasels.
It's hard enough to make any money selling the frickin skis in the first place.