V-shaped conveyor method for rescue shoveling

Saw a discussion of a concept that i've never heard of, which is of course yet another reminder that i'm overdue to renew my Avi 1. From this article in Outside Online:

"Bezubiak performed a more precise search to pinpoint Weselake’s location, then Kuzma drove her probe into the snow and hit him almost immediately. They whipped out their shovels for the hardest, most time-consuming phase of any rescue: digging. They knew Weselake was buried six feet deep and that his chances of survival were falling fast. Instead of using the traditional method to excavate an avalanche victim—digging vertically into the snow along the path of the probe—Bezubiak and Kuzma employed a new technique they’d learned at a three-day course in Fernie less than a month earlier. It was called the V-shaped conveyor method and was reputed to cut excavation time nearly in half. They started downhill of the probe by 1.5 times the burial depth and dug into the snow horizontally instead of vertically, thereby limiting the risk that they’d collapse Weselake’s air pocket. Kuzma started at the front, chopping the hard debris into movable chunks, which Bezubiak then paddled away, as if he was kayaking, which widened the tunnel. When Kuzma got tired, they switched places.

Nearly 23 minutes after the avalanche occurred, they reached Weselake, who was unconscious and laboring through sporadic, shallow breaths. Bezubiak unclipped Weselake’s camera to relieve the pressure on his chest, and a few minutes later he began mumbling. Fifteen minutes after that, he could move. The group eventually evacuated under their own power."

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The article has a lot of discussion on the work of a Swiss avi researcher/educator, Manuel Genswein.


Have others heard of, or even better tried out this shoveling technique?

http://www.earnyourturns.com/509/the...snow-conveyor/

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Originally Posted by Tye 1on

Have others heard of, or even better tried out this shoveling technique?

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I'm struggling to see how this is getting so much attention... it's been taught for years.. apart from being just the smart way to figure it out anyway.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I'm struggling to see how this is getting so much attention... it's been taught for years.. apart from being just the smart way to figure it out anyway.

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so as I guessed, it's not new news, just me getting further behind the curve.
must. refresh. Avi1.

In the past ten years or so, the V pattern for shoveling and the radial probe pattern are the two changes I've seen. It makes sense, is more efficient, and is helpful in building out a platform below the pit. Interesting article about Todd. He was a photog with us in Fernie a few years ago. I wasn't even aware of his having been buried in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tye 1on

so as I guessed, it's not new news, just me getting further behind the curve.
must. refresh. Avi1.

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Ya, or at least go prowl through the TAR archives: (they're free for the old issues, but you gotta subscribe for this year's issues) http://www.americanavalancheassociat...2_Dec_2008.pdf

them new shovels
that' attach vertically like a hoe
sure make the conveyor bros ability to move snow
mo better

I did not know about this method either until I saw that article. Seems like it would have been discussed more often as some of you guys already knew about it.

I did not know about this method, but am well versed in Edgerly and Atkins strategic shoveling method, which is extremely similar. It seems like strategic shoveling is the method most regularly taught in Colorado.

As SFB said, once you go hoe, you don't go back.

wish the blade on the ortevox was bigger
but very little wasted movement trying to get large cumbersome blocks outta the way vrs scoop and toss

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

wish the blade on the ortevox was bigger
but very little wasted movement trying to get large cumbersome blocks outta the way vrs scoop and toss

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Agree...
I have the same ort shovel as you however I picked one of these up for the girl last winter...
Seems pretty stout, and with a larger blade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tye 1on

Have others heard of, or even better tried out this shoveling technique?

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There was a thread here on TGR a few years back about this technique. It started with Blurred wanting a shovel with a "D" handle, somebody chastised him for not knowing the "hoe" method, and then the thread went the usual downhill direction with people talking about Blurred and his ho.

And yeah, when I took Avi 1 a few years back this new method was taught.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

As SFB said, once you go hoe, you don't go back.

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That's because the gift keeps giving.

I feel like every book I've read (including Snow Sense) and every video I've seen has preached this method... but I only got into BC in the last few years. But my impression was this was already considered SOP.

It's newer. Not taught when I took Avy I in 2005, IIRC. My edition of Snow Sense doesn't have it either (again, IIRC, it's in a box in the other room).

^^ Likely so. My edition of Snow Sense was revised in 2011. Anyway, it definitely makes sense from an efficiency standpoint, that's for sure.

I always wondered about the strength of the hoe shovels. Not saying I know anything at all about them, but putting the blade at an angle seems like it could be more open to stress. The one thing I want most in my shovel is to not break shoveling avy debris. An old study destroyed a bunch of shovels although it was a single tester and to my knowledge there has not been another destructive test. I only glance at the free back issures-yes I will pay up for membership. Would be very interested in impressions of hoe shovels and if anyone knows of further comparative destructive testing.

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Originally Posted by cat in january

I always wondered about the strength of the hoe shovels. Not saying I know anything at all about them, but putting the blade at an angle seems like it could be more open to stress. The one thing I want most in my shovel is to not break shoveling avy debris. An old study destroyed a bunch of shovels although it was a single tester and to my knowledge there has not been another destructive test. I only glance at the free back issures-yes I will pay up for membership. Would be very interested in impressions of hoe shovels and if anyone knows of further comparative destructive testing.

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We gave up doing gear tests at The Avalanche Review as my staff (haha) is really small and it took too much time, was too weird with our advertisers. That being said, we did print a shovel test report from Manual Genswein (the rescue guru, referred to above), and the Voile orange-bladed shovels won out. See TAR 27.3: (Feb 2009)
http://www.americanavalancheassociat...3_Feb_2009.pdf

Look at the connection between the blade and the handle- how thick/ tough is it? I do like the hoe configuration, but don't have any data on its robustness.

Strategic shoveling is the smarter choice with a smaller group of people; V-shaped conveyor belt works better with at least 6 shovelers who can rotate positions. Either way you look at it, diameter of the hole needs to be 2.5x the burial depth.

I have the Orto shovel as well. It's a little fiddly to get into hoe mode (practice helps) but once there it seems pretty bomber. If anything the chance of blade damage seems lower since you're generally "chopping" at firm snow with your arms and pulling straight back without using the shaft as a lever.

Main issue I have with the hoe mode is it isn't as natural to use if most of your snow shoveling is with a traditional shovel (e.g. shoveling the deck). Again, practice seems to help. Need to get some for this season (maybe I'll use the avy shovel to "rescue" the propane tank after the next big storm).

I still like my beefy G3 AviTech as digging avy debris means you can be digging some near-concrete like snow. I can put my boot on the blade to break it up and then move it. Can't boot the hoe shovels. They're awesome for building snow shelters though!

^^^
ya know other than the blade being slighty smaller and the advantage of the ability to throw the whippet attachment on for self arrest situations i realy dont think the ortovox pro alu 3 is any less burl than the g3 and the chopin blades much sharper the handle and grip are better
i do miss the put your weeds in the handle safety feature