Angle Sets

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07-22-2015, 02:34 AM
ghosthop

Angle Sets

I'm looking to slacken out my SC Bantam. The internet is telling me Works is the way to go. Anyone have anecdotal evidence otherwise?

The SHIS of my current headset is:
ZS 44 / 28.6 Upper
EC 49 / 40 Lower
(btw, I hope whatever enginerd came up with that^ is proud of themselves, if CC didn't have the info on their website I would have gotten it totally wrong)

Works has 3 types listed that work with my frame, an EC/EC, ZS/EC, and EC/ZS that is listed as "headtube reducer". I assume EC/EC or ZS/EC is the way to go, any differences in the two besides the headset with the extended top cup will take up a bit more steerer tube length?

Also, I was originally planning to go -1.0, but reading around I found people saying that one degree isn't very noticeable and that -1.5 is the sweet spot. My current HA is 68*, this is my only bike and I primarily ride in Western MT where many of my usual rides include a sufferfest of a climb. I have no delusions about making a 5" bike into a freeride sled and I'm not looking to totally hate myself at the top, just make the steep sections on the down a bit more enjoyable. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
07-22-2015, 10:40 AM
dfinn

for way less money and headache you could try offset shock bushings. cost about $20 and is easily reversible if you don't like it.

http://www.offsetbushings.com/

I think the max you can get is 1 degree though.
07-22-2015, 12:04 PM
D(C)

One of the benefits of an angleset over offset bushings is that an angleset steepens the seat tube angle while offset bushings slacken it.
07-22-2015, 12:28 PM
Damian Sanders

What fork do you have on the bike? Try extending the travel of the fork by 20mm, might be as simple as removing a spacer. Then setup the fork to run with 15-20% sag. That will get the front end up.

Also consider your (bar height) stem/bar/HS spacer setup.
07-22-2015, 01:32 PM
toast2266

No opinions on anglesets in particular, but if you're current bike is at 68*, I'd agree that dropping 1.5* down to 66.5* would be good. I'm also in western MT, and I think a ~125mm bike with a 66.5* HA would be pretty nice on a lot of the trails around here. I'd vote against increasing the travel of the fork, as that'll raise your BB a bit and raise your front end a lot, both of which negatively impact the handling of the bike.
07-22-2015, 03:14 PM
Damian Sanders

Quote:

Originally Posted by toast2266

No opinions on anglesets in particular, but if you're current bike is at 68*, I'd agree that dropping 1.5* down to 66.5* would be good. I'm also in western MT, and I think a ~125mm bike with a 66.5* HA would be pretty nice on a lot of the trails around here. I'd vote against increasing the travel of the fork, as that'll raise your BB a bit and raise your front end a lot, both of which negatively impact the handling of the bike.

After running low BB's for a number of years, I think they're a bit overrated. Especially if the OP's main concern is riding steeps - having a fork that stays high in it's travel and bars that are high enough are more important IMHO.
07-22-2015, 03:50 PM
Dromond

I had a SC TRc that was a 68 degree HA and I put a Works -1.5 headset EC44 -EC49 on it. It was pretty sweet and I would recommend that setup. If your head tube is 116-123mm I'll give you a good deal on mine as I don't have that frame anymore.
07-23-2015, 01:04 PM
FlimFlamvanHam

Quote:

Originally Posted by D(C)

One of the benefits of an angleset over offset bushings is that an angleset steepens the seat tube angle while offset bushings slacken it.

An angleset or Works would have no effect on the STA...it would remain the same. The only other aspects changing with an angleset would be a reduced reach number and increased wheelbase.

I ran a -1.5 Works on my Pivot 429 (before the 2012 redesign of the frame) and they are a great product. The angleset can be a bit of a pain as it uses gimbles to provide varying degrees of alteration. It sounds good in theory but they really are a PITA. The Works are an offset bottom and top cup.

I would grab buddy's one for sale in this thread and give it a go.

I also want to say that I agree a bit with Damian in that the benefits of a really low BB are overstated, at least in my experience. Adding 20mm to your fork may be the simplest solution however anything over that, IMO, would change bb height by too much after sag (over ~10mm of BB height not to mention reducing reach a good amount, seat angle a degree+ slacker bla bla bla).

The cleanest solution to keep bike pretty much the same in most all aspects of fit while only changing your HA is the Works.
07-23-2015, 02:14 PM
D(C)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Sizzler

An angleset or Works would have no effect on the STA...it would remain the same. The only other aspects changing with an angleset would be a reduced reach number and increased wheelbase.

Wouldn't raking out the fork more drop the front end a bit, bringing the seat forward? Based on some quick trig calcs, the front end would drop about 5 mm by going from 68 deg to 66.5 deg.
07-23-2015, 02:17 PM
D(C)

1 Attachment(s)

Assuming a 525 mm axle to crown. [ sorry for the nerding ]

Attachment 168378
07-23-2015, 02:24 PM
Anospa

X1 and X2 are not the only things changing, the horizontal distance is as well.

A longer fork will bring the bars up and back.
07-23-2015, 03:06 PM
Dromond

I think the affect on STA is going to be marginal at the most. Honestly that's all within the range of saddle adjustment for most I think. The affect on HTA however of -1.5 I found very noticeable and awesome.
07-23-2015, 05:08 PM
ghosthop

Thanks for all the replies

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfinn

for way less money and headache you could try offset shock bushings. cost about $20 and is easily reversible if you don't like it.

http://www.offsetbushings.com/

I think the max you can get is 1 degree though.

I really like the idea of offset bushings, but dropping the BB is a no-no. Something about this bike (maybe pedal bob due to single pivot?) causes a ton of pedal strikes. I would chalk it up to being a hack but better riding friends have noticed the same thing when on the bike.

Their website says max is 1.5 degrees tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

What fork do you have on the bike? Try extending the travel of the fork by 20mm, might be as simple as removing a spacer. Then setup the fork to run with 15-20% sag. That will get the front end up.

Also consider your (bar height) stem/bar/HS spacer setup.

I'm running a Pike 130 which came with the bike, I assume that the fork is in the 130 setting on a 5" bike

I hadn't though much about adjusting the cockpit beyond what adjusting HA would do. My stem is maxed out on the steerer, are you saying shorter/higher rise stem, bars with more rise and sweep back farther?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dromond

I had a SC TRc that was a 68 degree HA and I put a Works -1.5 headset EC44 -EC49 on it. It was pretty sweet and I would recommend that setup. If your head tube is 116-123mm I'll give you a good deal on mine as I don't have that frame anymore.

I really appreciate the offer, things like this make these forums great. However, nothing about me is XL. My headtube is 100mm, I would imagine the offsets on your HS will not line up if installed in my frame. Am I totally wrong? If this would work it would be the preferable route.
07-23-2015, 05:36 PM
Dromond

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghosthop

Thanks for all the replies

I really like the idea of offset bushings, but dropping the BB is a no-no. Something about this bike (maybe pedal bob due to single pivot?) causes a ton of pedal strikes. I would chalk it up to being a hack but better riding friends have noticed the same thing when on the bike.

Their website says max is 1.5 degrees tho.

I'm running a Pike 130 which came with the bike, I assume that the fork is in the 130 setting on a 5" bike

I hadn't though much about adjusting the cockpit beyond what adjusting HA would do. My stem is maxed out on the steerer, are you saying shorter/higher rise stem, bars with more rise and sweep back farther?

I really appreciate the offer, things like this make these forums great. However, nothing about me is XL. My headtube is 100mm, I would imagine the offsets on your HS will not line up if installed in my frame. Am I totally wrong? If this would work it would be the preferable route.

Bummer! I think they spec them that way for a reason - you want that shit to line up. I'd just order one direct from Works. I recommend that and/are trying a higher bar but the offset bushings less so. I found they made a pretty small difference but maybe it was just me...
07-24-2015, 09:06 AM
Damian Sanders

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghosthop

I really like the idea of offset bushings, but dropping the BB is a no-no. Something about this bike (maybe pedal bob due to single pivot?) causes a ton of pedal strikes. I would chalk it up to being a hack but better riding friends have noticed the same thing when on the bike.

I'm running a Pike 130 which came with the bike, I assume that the fork is in the 130 setting on a 5" bike

I hadn't though much about adjusting the cockpit beyond what adjusting HA would do. My stem is maxed out on the steerer, are you saying shorter/higher rise stem, bars with more rise and sweep back farther?

Yeah....if you are getting too many pedal stikes, definitely extend the fork and get the BB up. I would extend it to 150mm. It's free and somewhat easy to do. Do that first.

Getting your hand position up and back will certainly help on the steeps, at the expense of climbing and weighting the front end in corners. The current mega-trend is for very wide bars with little rise and very short stems, but virtually any stem 40mm to 90mm and bar 27" to 30", 0 to 2" rise, can be considered an effective modern setup. I run a 27" bar, 40mm rise, with a 70mm 6 deg stem. You need to adjust to find your own sweet spot.
07-28-2015, 02:00 PM
FlimFlamvanHam

Quote:

Originally Posted by D(C)

Wouldn't raking out the fork more drop the front end a bit, bringing the seat forward? Based on some quick trig calcs, the front end would drop about 5 mm by going from 68 deg to 66.5 deg.

I like your nerding. Solid. Kicking out the steer tube a degree and a half and all else remaining same I would assume might drop the front end at absolute most 5mm and your calculations show that. That drop, in turn, would then increase head angle (and seat angle) but only by maybe 1/4 of a degree.