Breaking into Guiding In Bozeman

Long story short, it's time for a change. I've spent my summers chasing the dollar around the country, and my winters chasing pow around Montana. I'd like to stay in Bozeman, and I think guiding is, by far, my best option.

A few friends of mine that guide around the state have essentially told me that all I need is a four-door truck, a nice boat, a good personality, and to know the rivers I plan on guiding like the back of my dick. And that I need to get an outfitter to endorse my license.

The last part is proving to be the hardest. I am currently working in Seattle, and would really love to not have to quit this job, without having an idea that I am coming home to something. But if I have to kick in fly-shop doors every morning to get it done, then thats what it's going to take I suppose.

SO. If anyone has any direction, advice, or contacts that would in any way help this quest of mine along, it would be greatly appreciated.

(I am sure this will be continued...)

them nice boats are nicer ifin ya got nice oarskills to go w/ em
practice saying mend
laminate your business card on leader straightners
and give them as parting gifts and
git red bobbers

tough gig to get into.... there are far more guides than fishing days available.....good luck

if your not willin to do some shop time i wouldn't bother kickin in the door
probably a couple kids in the shop waitin to guide already
good news your idiot exposure time in the shop is bout 1/2 hour max
were as 8 hours in a boat w/ fish counting wanna be catchermen can be a long day
guiding good sticks is fun
i struggled w/ neverz evarz and don't enjoy teachin as much as a good guide should
is it better than most peoples vacation?
that would depend whatcha enjoy doing on your vacation.
for me that's the biggest bullshit ego fluffer line

Have you guided before? What job do yo have in Seattle that you cant do in Bozeman? I know a few outfitters in Bzn and no way are they gonna risk their reputation on an unknown unproven guy from Seattle. I also know there is fierce competition for days among even long-time experienced guides. Not trying to talk you out of it but you may want to consider alternative employment. Year-round job opportunities are not hard to come by, pm me if you would like for a lead or two.

I agree with LB and others. It's tough to walk in the door in a desirable fishing location and just expect to get a job. I found this out the hard way many years ago....any outfitter that hires you without knowing you, your skills and work ethic is probably not an outfitter you want to work for. Plus, you likely won't get enough days if you are counting on guiding to survive.

You could start in another location that isn't as much of a fishing destination and possibly get your feet wet. Then go into Bzn in a year or two with some experience and references.

Another option is to get a summer gig at a rafting outfitter if you can row. Rowing a raft for ww tourists is very different than catching fish for people but at least you could throw it on your list.

There are about a million outfitters down here in JH, fishing the Snake, Green, etc... You might actually be able to convince one of them to let you in the door here but don't count on steady work. I'd be happy to point you int the right direction.

Oh , one more idea. Take an expensive "guide" class from a reputable place. www.worldcastanglers.com. Has been at it for a long time. I am far removed from the industry so really don't know if that will help you land a job but if you have spare time and an extra couple grand....

Lot's of good points in this thread already, though if you truly know the rivers you want to guide like the back of your dick, are a competent angler, and have the right gear it shouldn't be too hard. Sounds like you need to get some face time with the outfits you're interested in.

There's quite a few questionable places that would hire you if you showed up at their door with a Tundra, Clean clacka, and some appropriate rigged gear. I know a fair few people who come out from California for the summers and guide the South Fork for mostly reputable outfits, who were hired sight unseen. All mediocre guides at best.

Being the FNG, expect to get docked more $ from your outfitter, and get clientele that might be questionable rather than established high rollers.

Guide school is mostly worthless if you know the area and have competence on those rivers. If green, they can be a good crash course and it'll show the outfitter you're serious, though come to think of it everyone I've ever met who's gone through one isn't a guide...The WorldCast school is reputable, and despite having 60ish guides this season, I've got to believe they're probably one of the biggest outfitters in ID/WY and there are still days to be had. I know the Headhunters guys on the MO really well and they wanted a few full timers for this season, last time we fished in October they said if a squared away guide showed up they felt comfortable hiring they could guarantee him 150 days. So there are plenty of days to be had at the right destinations.

If you have trouble getting on this summer, the shop rat path would be the way to go to get your foot in the door. Hourly retail sucks, but invest time in the business and you'll most likely get called up to the bigs next season if you wok hard and make it known that's your goal. Might even get you there this fall or some summer overflow if you prove yourself.

So to answer a few questions:

I currently live in Bozeman, have an apartment up Trail Creek, work at Bridger during the winters, and spent a summer in Idaho, guiding white water.

I never considered guiding as a possibility, but when it was suggested to me by a friend, I bounced it off of a bunch of other people, and none of them seemed to think it was a bad idea.

I know it's not going to be easy to get into, and I'm not expecting it to be extremely profitable. I just would like, for once in my life, to wake up stoked to go to work.

Are you a competent angler or do you fish a few days a year?

Go for it. You'll either scrape together an existence hustling clients or gain some new life experience. Either way, I'm jealous you're living out on Trail Creek. We built a cabin and a house up Goose Creek and there was not a better place on earth to live for a few years. I know a few guys who worked as fishing guides but were under an existing guide service. If you're single with no kids, you'll have an advantage over guys with additional budget and time stressors.

Oh, and probably better to bring someone a jug of whiskey than "kick the door in". You probably know this from working at Bridger but most of the various trades there seems to have an "old boys club" for the established locals and while it may not be critical to be invited to the club, it will definetly be detrimental to run afoul of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snapt

Are you a competent angler or do you fish a few days a year?

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This question is a trap.

But I guess my best answer is that from April to December, there is nothing I rather be doing.

Not a trap, but if you can't say yes without hesitation maybe you're not quite ready.

I knew that would be your answer.

I was home for four days over Memorial Day weekend, fished four distinct rivers, and caught plenty of fish on all of them. (Stone, Upper, Mo, and St Regis). I believe I'm competent, the people encouraging me to do this believe so as well.

Then the answer is yes? Not trying to be a dick at all, most outfitters have a few guides on staff they really like but they have 'confidence issues' which makes them a pain as they really can't book them with certain personalities. Be confident dude.

What's your boat/rig situation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snapt

Then the answer is yes? Not trying to be a dick at all, most outfitters have a few guides on staff they really like but they have 'confidence issues' which makes them a pain as they really can't book them with certain personalities. Be confident dude.

What's your boat/rig situation?

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I was attempting to be humble...

05 V8 4Runner and I've got a 2013 RO Guide waiting for me at home.

im a pretty compitent stick &
pretty good pow skier
don't mean i'm real good at transferin them skills to peeps who aint got em
being able to personally catch fish on a given stretch of river aint the same as guiding dudes into fish specially out of a boat
how many hours do you have on the sticks?
some people take to rowin fast.
walk/wade guidins not my thing but some guys dig it
some people are good at dealin w/ outfitter/guide politics shit grows old fast
how are your party fuckin hearty skills?
them young fucks can party
i'm not trying to dissuade ya go for it
my advice
start practicing instructing
voli for healing waters/ wounded warriors outings your local tu chapter teach your spinfishin skibum bros.
it's an interesting gig
swampins better imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boom Heir

But I guess my best answer is that from April to December, there is nothing I rather be doing.

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Why ruin it? You couldn't pay me enough to do the typical Rockies guiding since you'll basically be bobber-dogging even when conditions are prime for other ways to fish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

im a pretty compitent stick &
pretty good pow skier
don't mean i'm real good at transferin them skills to peeps who aint got em
being able to personally catch fish on a given stretch of river aint the same as guiding dudes into fish specially out of a boat
how many hours do you have on the sticks?
some people take to rowin fast.
walk/wade guidins not my thing but some guys dig it
some people are good at dealin w/ outfitter/guide politics shit grows old fast
how are your party fuckin hearty skills?
them young fucks can party
i'm not trying to dissuade ya go for it
my advice
start practicing instructing
voli for healing waters/ wounded warriors outings your local tu chapter teach your spinfishin skibum bros.
it's an interesting gig
swampins better imo

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All this, but being a solid angler doesn't hurt, humble doesn't hurt either. ;) Sounds like you could easily get a gig on the MO Boom, pretty fun place to guide. I can't vouge for your skillz, but can put you in touch with some peeps if interested. PM if so.

I've actually had extremely good experiences teaching friends, and girlfriends, how to fish. Much better than attempting to teach someone how to ski or snowboard.

If you have the patience to teach a significant other how to fish and stayed in the relationship you can probably guide from the personal standpoint. If you can row and know a bit about fishin you're up on many of the rookie guides in the region.

Greg?

I worked at a shop for one of the local lodges in ID that used a seniority system to determine who got work on those days when there wasn't enough to go around. My advice would be to never "break into" guiding with an outfitter that does this. The problem is this: the bookings aren't spread out evenly through the season. The lodges need enough guides on the roster to cover the peak periods, so you can get the foot in the door. But there might be only 30-45 days of full capacity at the lodge when everyone is booked. As low man, that means you can get stuck in limbo. You may be expected to be on call and available but only guiding 2 or 3 days a week and might be getting zilch on the shoulder seasons. I've seen this happen to a couple of guides who couldn't keep it up for lack of money. Of course, there is turnover at an outfit like this because the guides at the bottom of the totem pole are looking for greener pastures. If an outfitter warns you they use seniority to distribute the clients, then you want to make sure there is something else like a shop job, something at the lodge, driving shuttles, etc. that will keep you paid. I think two local outfits have guide school graduate interns who are basically breaking into guiding but in reality spend much of their summer at the shop and driving shuttles. Having a book of clients that want to fish with you (who you stay in contact with), the business that you can bring into the lodge/outfitter, that is the only way to get any leverage for pay and work. The guides who bring in clients also get to work on the days when they don't have personal clients. It's not just about having skills with fish and oars. Even if you have business to bring in, work can still be inconsistent. Big runoff and muddy water = cancellations. Drought and river closures = cancellations. Early winter = cancellations. MT is well known for all three of these and if you can get through a season without one of these happening, you are ahead of the game. And then there is the seasonality of it all. I worked for a top level lodge, one of the oldest in Orvis' program, located next to one of the country's most famous rivers. Despite these advantages, bookings totally dried up in mid-September and the senior guides part-timed through the last of the season until the October closing. All of this adds up to the old joke that being a rocky mountain fly-fishing guide is great work if you don't really need it. There are a lot of fishing guides living in Jackson but I don't think many of them paid for their house with tips. You show me a Jackson fishing guide with a nice house and a brand new $40k rig and boat and I'll show you someone who can truly say they guide for the love of the sport.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bunion

Greg?

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No sir...

I'll chime in a little here. I've been a fishing guide for 10 years; 8 of those in Jackson Hole. I have never heard of a single outfitter that didn't have a seniority program. Like others have said: most beginning guides work shop days and start getting a few trips here and there while they move up and start guiding full-time. I am assuming you have rowing skills. If you are not willing to do walk/wade trips, you are going to miss out on business and possibly get passed over for boat trips. I know the guides around here that make it to a comfortable level bust their butts for the first two years. That means doing 2 half-day trips in one day and proving you have the passion to do it.

And, I did read one comment by another poster. I did buy a nice house and rig with guiding money. It's an hour out of Jackson, but it beats commuting into Washington D.C. every day.

Good luck and don't give up if it is your dream.

Also, I don't put much stock in the guiding schools. They are a lot of money and you will learn more from befriending guides and fishing with them.

Guides are assholes.