Unknown Knee Injury

Hi Guys,

My girl friend had a Knee problem for the last 2 years(!!!)
When it started she run for 6 times a week between 5 to 7 km.
Than a feeling like a overload start in the knee. After a month or so after a running session, it begun to really hurt, and she couldn't walk properly for few days.
Then we start to go to doctors for the last 2 years, and she had X-ray, Ultrasound and MRI, which all were 100% ok with no findings.
We went also to Rheumatologist, but again.... No results.
I am here asking if anyone had something similar to this and can maybe give us a new direction to think of, since we are already Desperate and had just about enough from doctors who (more than 5 different ones) has no idea what it is.
The current situation is little bit better than 2 years ago, but still she cannot run... and when she try to cycle in the gym, it has to be on the lowest resistance since when it more, the knee start to hurt.
Any suggestion will be welcomed! maybe something that we can ask the doctors and give them a certain direction...

Thanks!

When you say it hurts, do you mean a dull aching pain or a sharp shooting pain?

If it's a sharp pain, it's likely an irritated or entrapped nerve, possibly the popliteal nerve which is located behind the knee on the outside, and can send sharp pain through the knee.

Somebody trained in Active Relief Technique can help stretch the muscle fibers that have trapped and irritated the nerve and that might help.

Also, that stretchy K Tape can be a huge help in taking pressure off this nerve if it is irritated.

This is just a shot in the dark man but since I've been having some issues with sharp knee pain after ACL surgery I thought I'd throw it out there for you, because that's what me and my physical therapist narrowed it down to. We've been dealing with it in a variety of ways and it seems to be helping a lot.

If on the other hand it's a dull achy pain, I'd say a tight IT band might be a problem. Google that for various treatments, primarily the old foam roller.

Good luck!

Thanks!

i think we will check the tight IT band since the pain in not sharp. The pain starts as a kind of a overload on the knee and later in begun to be painful.

If anyone has any other idea i would appreciate it very much!

Sounds like an IT band issue. Regardless, no one is going to give you an accurate e-diagnosis for this. Best thing you can do is find a good PT who works with runners / athletes. Stay away from the garden variety PT's who primarily deal with getting people back to walking, daily life, etc. Doctors are usually of little help for these types of repetitive use issues.

Hi neufox47,
Many thanks for the replay.

I am sure no one can diagnose me here online. We just hope some can give us something that the doctors didnt manage to tell us.
We are trying to go a doctor as you said, but in my country if you choose your doctor it can some time take a long period of time to get an appointment. So our hope that some one can give us something as the IT band issue, and we can do some exercise , so it might help.:smile:

Has a doctor suggested r.i.c.e.? When is the last time your GF took 3 or 4 weeks off with no leg exercise, period?

1. complete rest

3/4. ice

2. compression (a $6 Voile strap works for knee support below the kneecap - where this pain likely comes from)

3/4. elevation

Here's more info:

http://running.competitor.com/2015/0...yndrome_125083

It has hit me a few times with a sharp onset (one day/activity) and relatively quick healing (2-3wks). Rice has always worked with no dr. visits. At its worst I can't walk for several days.

I bet if she tried not running 3 miles everyday, her knee would get better.
That sounds awful. Especially if it's on pavement.

2nd for research IT band, I had knee pain but while mtn biking. Finally figured out it was my IT band, a foam roller and yoga helped me out tremendously.

Hi Guys , Thanks again for the comments!

The thing is that she stop running for the last 1.5 years and except walking 5 min to work she isnt doing any significant knee load.

Regarding the IT band , we started some EX from the net, but everywhere it says that tight IT band should have pain in the knee, but it seems
the although that what she felt 2 years ago when this issue started, now it is more like a over load on the knee when she doing any kind of EX , followed by pain.
Do you think it still sound like tight IT band ?

Anyhow, if the IT band EX will help i'll return and write here.
Thanks!

Hi Guys,
As said before we tried for 2 month the IT band ex , with no improvement.
We now think this is Patellofemoral pain syndrome (which is kind of a general thing for my understanding).
Anyone with interesting good focused information that can help about it will be welcome (and yes... we google it... and there is a lot of info there... but if someone can focus us it will help!)

Thanks

I've dealt with something very similar for a long time and recently it flared up again and has knocked me on my ass. What happens specific to me is tight muscles, muscle imbalance, and overly tight muscles pulling my kneecap out of alignment. If I can't cut it off in time it leads to chondromalacia patella which is unbelievably painful.

Sometimes "stretching" isn't going to get it done you need to get in there and break that shit up. Foam roller, or lacrosse ball.i use a 4 inch peice of ABS pipe to smash my quads, calfs, and IT bands when they get tight. It hurts like a mother fucker but gets shit done. Also make sure your hamstrings aren't tight.

First step is loosening everything up, taking that tension off your knee. Next is to build even strength. Strengthen your VMO and your glutes so your kneecap is getting an even pull on it. Third is learn and execute proper form. Squats are the best for knee health.

Kelly Starrett has some great videos on this and also has know written a book called "becoming a supple leopard" which is a great resource for any active person out there.



And here is another video a bit more specific to chondromalacia

What do you mean by "overload"? Are you from Quebec or France?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oribass

The thing is that she stop running for the last 1.5 years and except walking 5 min to work she isnt doing any significant knee load.

Regarding the IT band , we started some EX from the net, but everywhere it says that tight IT band should have pain in the knee, but it seems
the although that what she felt 2 years ago when this issue started, now it is more like a over load on the knee when she doing any kind of EX , followed by pain.
Do you think it still sound like tight IT band ?

Anyhow, if the IT band EX will help i'll return and write here.
Thanks!

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Because of the time off it sounds like the ligament itself might be compromised. Rested and babied for 18mos. and immediate pain on a full load (knee bend)? Sounds like a disrupted ligament with either a tear that's dramatically cut the band's overall strength or something unhealthy within the band... From what I read after straining mine in January, I was prepared to get an x-ray to look for a tear. Luckily mine healed and wasn't torn, or at least to the extend it impeded activity.

Has a tear in the ligament been ruled out? Maybe there was an old tear with a messy, non load bearing scar tissue in place now?

"Jumper's Knee," or Patellar Tendonitis
The patellar tendon connects the kneecap (patella) to the shinbone (tibia) and is part of the mechanism that allows the leg to straighten. Patellar tendonitis is a condition in which this tendon and the tissues around it become irritated and inflamed.

http://www.methodistorthopedics.com/...o.cfm?id=40795

Causes
Overuse of the knee, especially in "jumping sports" such as basketball and volleyball
Acute injury to the tendon that has not healed properly
Symptoms
Pain at the kneecap
Pain that increases with activities such as jumping or kneeling
Swelling around the tendon
Treatment
Most cases of patellar tendonitis can be treated with nonsurgical approaches, including rest, ice, anti-inflammatory medications, stretching, and/or braces. In rare cases, surgery may be needed to repair the tendon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AaronWright

What do you mean by "overload"? Are you from Quebec or France?

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It seems self evident to me. Weight put on the knee during otherwise normal activity feels as though it's excessive weight/strain, ie. overloaded when it shouldn't be.

disclaimer: this is coming from an earth sciences major ;)

Hi guys,

I promise to update, so finally after few years we got good news. One of the (5) doctors we went to, suggest it could be because of muscular imbalance. He sent us to some new treatment in my country which called Apostheraphy. They told us that usually this caused by over flexibility issue.
My girl friends started to do their muscular balacing program, and only after 2 months we can see a good improvment. This is just the start of the process but we can only hope this will solve the issue for us.
We also understand that usually the pain is caused by abnormal response of the body becuase of earlier truma.
Search it on you tube : "Pain. Is it all just in your mind? Professor Lorimer Moseley - University of South Australia" on YouTube
Well, when i heard it on the start it seems to me as Voodoo... However... when the voodoo works... i am being quiet :) .

Thanks everyone for the help!